Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[watcher9]

I drove by the lake on I-380 on our way to the UNI Homecoming events this weekend. I do have to say - from the interstate the lake and the trails look really nice. Granted I'm only seeing it from the "backside" of the lake (the side closest to where the girls went missing).
There are fountains that spray in the pond, the trail was MUCH more wide open on the back side...I could see almost all the way to the gate. The the only thing blocking my view were the trees close to the interstate.
The gazebos look really welcoming and there were TONS of people out walking - lots of kids riding bikes during their parents evening walks. It really looks nice from the quick little glimpse I got of it in my 70 mph drive by.

What a tribute to the girls for the community to come together with the Collins to improve the park and make it into a true family atmosphere instead of remembering it as a scary place where children could be taken.
I wonder what they did about the Maiden Lane area?

 

[margarita25]

Re: the discussion above about on what basis Klunder was ruled out, IIRC LE supposedly determined that he was not in the area during the time of the girls' murders. Looking for link....

Eta:

"EVANSDALE | The killer is still out there.

On Wednesday, authorities confirmed that Michael Klunder, the man who was once the top person of interest in the disappearance and death of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, has effectively been ruled out.

“After we put everything together, and reviewed and re-reviewed and did more follow-ups, it just doesn’t appear that he had been in this area on that particular day,” said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_647e7e0c-6ea1-5f71-80e8-8b56a9700c47.html

Also:

"For the Evansdale case, one investigation team was specifically assigned to look into Klunder, Smock said.

Smock would not discuss specifics on what the team did to investigate Klunder, but he did say the team "spent a great deal of time looking into his whereabouts on July 13." The team also analyzed information and ran tests, Smock said.

"We were running into dead ends with everything we were looking for," Smock said.

Authorities determined Klunder was not in Evansdale on July 13 and was not involved in the girls' disappearance or killing. Police believe Klunder was in or near his home in Stratford when the Evansdale girls disappeared, Smock said.

"We never close the door fully, but we're very comfortable saying we're no longer interested in looking at him," Smock said."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...-michael-klunder-ruled-out-evansdale/9104893/

 

[threecrazykids]

Re: the discussion above about on what basis Klunder was ruled out, IIRC LE supposedly determined that he was not in the area during the time of the girls' murders. Looking for link....

Eta:

"EVANSDALE | The killer is still out there.

On Wednesday, authorities confirmed that Michael Klunder, the man who was once the top person of interest in the disappearance and death of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, has effectively been ruled out.

“After we put everything together, and reviewed and re-reviewed and did more follow-ups, it just doesn’t appear that he had been in this area on that particular day,” said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_647e7e0c-6ea1-5f71-80e8-8b56a9700c47.html

Also:

"For the Evansdale case, one investigation team was specifically assigned to look into Klunder, Smock said.

Smock would not discuss specifics on what the team did to investigate Klunder, but he did say the team "spent a great deal of time looking into his whereabouts on July 13." The team also analyzed information and ran tests, Smock said.

"We were running into dead ends with everything we were looking for," Smock said.

Authorities determined Klunder was not in Evansdale on July 13 and was not involved in the girls' disappearance or killing. Police believe Klunder was in or near his home in Stratford when the Evansdale girls disappeared, Smock said.

"We never close the door fully, but we're very comfortable saying we're no longer interested in looking at him," Smock said."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...-michael-klunder-ruled-out-evansdale/9104893/

Validated cell phone pings/texts and maybe ran DNA tests? I can't think of any other "tests" you'd run in a missing person investigation other than DNA (off the top of my head). What other tests would be done other than DNA that would aid in including/excluding him?

 

[gofer]

Like I mentioned before, I wonder that since Klunder was in prison prior, if he could have learned how to "cover his tracks" such as having some else use his cellphone, credit cards etc. to show that he was in a different location. I wonder is LE looked into that?

"Police believe Klunder was in or near his home in Stratford when the Evansdale girls disappeared, Smock said.

"We never close the door fully, but we're very comfortable saying we're no longer interested in looking at him," Smock said."

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Validated cell phone pings/texts and maybe ran DNA tests? I can't think of any other "tests" you'd run in a missing person investigation other than DNA (off the top of my head). What other tests would be done other than DNA that would aid in including/excluding him?

They could have been running down witnesses who all placed Klunder "in or near his home" on 13 July 2012.

One eyewitness can easily be mistaken, so if they had one eyewitness they'd have to keep looking. They'd particularly want to find eyewitnesses who did not know or did not communicate with each other to eliminate the chance that one mistaken eyewitness contaminated the memories of the others. All that interviewing along with cross checking to make sure there are no connections can take time.

Plus financial checking by looking at his bank records and credit card records to work out the most recent refuel of his vehicle before 13 July; did he actually have enough gas to make it there and back? If not, was he caught on video at any gas station on the way there or back? Checking security cam footage is the most mindnumbingly boring job in LE and yet it is often a very important part of a case. Stratford to Evansdale is about an hour and a half, so they'd be looking at the time periods of, say, 9 am to noon and then again from 4 pm to 9 pm on 13 July. Say a total of 10 hours, just to be sure. They'd be asking local LE to check security cam footage for probably upwards of 100 gas stations. That alone would take several weeks, even if it were divided up amongst several jurisdictions. When did he first re-fuel after 13 July? That could also be used as an indicator; for instance, say he refuelled his vehicle on 3 July and then didn't refuel again until 16 July, at which time he filled his tank. Was that consistent with his daily usage?

I don't like Klunder as a suspect because it doesn't seem likely he'd have the local knowledge needed for both locations. Plus, well, the people who know what evidence exists no longer see him as a viable suspect.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I just read about this seemingly solved cold case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...man-calls-tv-station-to-confess/?tid=pm_pop_b

It involves a man who was 17 years old when a 13 year old neighbour girl disappeared on a one block walk home after she'd been suspended from school. The school called her mother but it was only one block and her mother felt she could walk home.

As it turned out, she was not abducted on that walk home. There was a party in the neighbourhood that night that she attended, where she was killed by the suspect, Jose Ferreira. He was suspected right away and apparently had hinted at some culpability over the years but LE was unable to charge him. He finally called a TV station and confessed in detail to a reporter.

I know that one rule of thumb with sexual assaults is that the younger the victim, the younger the perpetrator. There are exceptions, of course. And complications in that would a perpetrator under, say, 22 years old really be able to control 2 girls? I think the answer is yes.

Which makes me wonder. School was out of session and during the day is when a bored teenager with very dark fantasies might have unsupervised access to a family vehicle. His parent(s) might not even know he had gone out at all that day.

 

[Bootsctr]

I can't remember if when they found Klunder if they ever told if he had a cell phone. I lean toward he had a cell phone. I hope they took the home computer because I'm sure he probably had one. This is what haunts me:

"Investigators say they are also looking into whether Klunder could be linked to the slayings of two cousins, ages 8 and 10, who vanished last summer while riding bikes in Evansdale. In the 1980s, he lived at a residential treatment center for emotionally troubled children in Bremer County, where the cousins' bodies were found in December."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/michael-klunder-kidnapper_n_3321859.html

Have they followed up on other troubled children who are now adults that were at the same center as possible POIs?

I wonder if Klunder followed the cousins' case? I'm assuming he didn't show up on the tapes of either girls' memorial service. It's so frustrating that no one has been arrested in connection with the girls' murders. :sigh:

 

[Bootsctr]

I just read about this seemingly solved cold case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...man-calls-tv-station-to-confess/?tid=pm_pop_b

It involves a man who was 17 years old when a 13 year old neighbour girl disappeared on a one block walk home after she'd been suspended from school. The school called her mother but it was only one block and her mother felt she could walk home.

As it turned out, she was not abducted on that walk home. There was a party in the neighbourhood that night that she attended, where she was killed by the suspect, Jose Ferreira. He was suspected right away and apparently had hinted at some culpability over the years but LE was unable to charge him. He finally called a TV station and confessed in detail to a reporter.

I know that one rule of thumb with sexual assaults is that the younger the victim, the younger the perpetrator. There are exceptions, of course. And complications in that would a perpetrator under, say, 22 years old really be able to control 2 girls? I think the answer is yes.

Which makes me wonder. School was out of session and during the day is when a bored teenager with very dark fantasies might have unsupervised access to a family vehicle. His parent(s) might not even know he had gone out at all that day.

Jessica Ridgeway's killer reminds me of a bored teenager who just wants to know what if feels like to kill someone.

I'm interested in Lyric and Lizzy's killer/killers "awareness space".

"When it actually comes to solving child abduction murder cases, the research suggests that the two most important elements, barring an eyewitness to some portion of the crime, is determining the relationship between the murderer and the victim and examining the murderer’s “awareness space.”

As for the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator, this can run the gambit from family members to complete strangers. Police have already announced that Jessica’s parents have been cleared of any wrongdoing. In the vast majority of cases of child abduction murder, the victim and perpetrator are at least familiar with one another, having actually met or at least noticed each other at school, church, a friend’s house, walking within the neighborhood or along some route or transportation corridor that the victim frequently traveled. The most rare type of relationship in child abduction murder cases is that of complete stranger."

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html tyou: Margarita25)

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Jessica Ridgeway's killer reminds me of a bored teenager who just wants to know what if feels like to kill someone.

I'm interested in Lyric and Lizzy's killer/killers "awareness space".

"When it actually comes to solving child abduction murder cases, the research suggests that the two most important elements, barring an eyewitness to some portion of the crime, is determining the relationship between the murderer and the victim and examining the murderer’s “awareness space.”

As for the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator, this can run the gambit from family members to complete strangers. Police have already announced that Jessica’s parents have been cleared of any wrongdoing. In the vast majority of cases of child abduction murder, the victim and perpetrator are at least familiar with one another, having actually met or at least noticed each other at school, church, a friend’s house, walking within the neighborhood or along some route or transportation corridor that the victim frequently traveled. The most rare type of relationship in child abduction murder cases is that of complete stranger."

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html tyou: Margarita25)

The rationale behind geo-profiling is similar. As I understand it, and possibly missing some important points, most killers operate far enough away from home that they feel safe but still within the geographical area they feel comfortable in. So there's often a doughnut effect where the killer's home is the hole in the doughnut. The younger the killer, the smaller their comfort zone is apt to be. In general, a serial killer who kills over a large geographical area is older and more sophisticated (and probably has a job or income source that facilitates travel).

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I can't remember if when they found Klunder if they ever told if he had a cell phone. I lean toward he had a cell phone. I hope they took the home computer because I'm sure he probably had one. This is what haunts me:

"Investigators say they are also looking into whether Klunder could be linked to the slayings of two cousins, ages 8 and 10, who vanished last summer while riding bikes in Evansdale. In the 1980s, he lived at a residential treatment center for emotionally troubled children in Bremer County, where the cousins' bodies were found in December."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/michael-klunder-kidnapper_n_3321859.html

Have they followed up on other troubled children who are now adults that were at the same center as possible POIs?

I wonder if Klunder followed the cousins' case? I'm assuming he didn't show up on the tapes of either girls' memorial service. It's so frustrating that no one has been arrested in connection with the girls' murders. :sigh:

I go back and forth.

I'm not sure I follow you on why the other residents in the treatment centre Klunder attended would be considered as POIs since there are plenty of youth treatment centres in the Waterloo/Cedar Falls metro area, both private and public.

In a sense, this case is very similar to the problems in profiling school shooters. The problem is not that there isn't a profile that the vast majority fit (young, male, alienated, prior history of behavioural problems, etc), the problem is that about 20% of all males under 25 fit the profile and yet only a tiny fraction of them actually do it.

 

[margarita25]

These angels were murdered just shortly before my time here on WS but I became acquainted with L and L's case via the live following of Kathlynn Shepard and her friend. The coincidences re: Klunder are undeniable (not to mention KS and the bridge, but that's another story). I think we all want to know what the specific evidence it is that rules out Klunder. I want to know!

With that being said, the coincidences that can occur in any given case are crazy, I'm learning this...it is actually my goal to start a thread about it, the crazy coincidences in different cases, one of these days...

One thing: mistakes can be made during investigations. I really hope they are sure about Klunder. I'm still not convinced, jmo.

 

[margarita25]

I'm going round in circles, but on Klunder's fb page, he had a fishing buddy, an RSO, C iirc, he lived on their street, sorry I keep bringing it up, I'm sure you guys have already answered / discussed this already...either I can't find it or I forgot the answer!

As mentioned I don't know the early details re: people close to the household, but yknwim...some kind of close visitor? One that the girls trusted?

 

[margarita25]

rsbm

In a sense, this case is very similar to the problems in profiling school shooters. The problem is not that there isn't a profile that the vast majority fit (young, male, alienated, prior history of behavioural problems, etc), the problem is that about 20% of all males under 25 fit the profile and yet only a tiny fraction of them actually do it.

(If you get bored or have some spare time, please see my signature, LOL)

 

[dotr]

I just read about this seemingly solved cold case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...man-calls-tv-station-to-confess/?tid=pm_pop_b

It involves a man who was 17 years old when a 13 year old neighbour girl disappeared on a one block walk home after she'd been suspended from school. The school called her mother but it was only one block and her mother felt she could walk home.

As it turned out, she was not abducted on that walk home. There was a party in the neighbourhood that night that she attended, where she was killed by the suspect, Jose Ferreira. He was suspected right away and apparently had hinted at some culpability over the years but LE was unable to charge him. He finally called a TV station and confessed in detail to a reporter.

I know that one rule of thumb with sexual assaults is that the younger the victim, the younger the perpetrator. There are exceptions, of course. And complications in that would a perpetrator under, say, 22 years old really be able to control 2 girls? I think the answer is yes.

Which makes me wonder. School was out of session and during the day is when a bored teenager with very dark fantasies might have unsupervised access to a family vehicle. His parent(s) might not even know he had gone out at all that day.

Thread in case you or anyone else is interested.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rch-in-1983-Milwaukee&p=12130200#post12130200

"WI - Carrie Ann Jopek,13, man confesses to hiding body under porch in 1983, Milwaukee"

 

[giagreen]

Thread in case you or anyone else is interested.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rch-in-1983-Milwaukee&p=12130200#post12130200

"WI - Carrie Ann Jopek,13, man confesses to hiding body under porch in 1983, Milwaukee"

I seen this. I hope someday the killer of these two young girls will give him self up.

 

[threecrazykids]

Ok - just saw on FB a gal from Evansdale posted that her friend was walking the nature trail Saturday and had two men approach her and ripped her coat but she took off running. These two men were reportedly dressed like police officers. Also stating Evansdale doesn't have foot patrol so to please be careful. Her post is public and was shared via a friend of mine - how can I get her post here? If it's a public post am I able to post her name or something?
She also states (in the comments) she reported it to the cops, described as Late 20's Early 30's and someone else stated they called the Evansdale police and they stated they'd heard nothing of it and want to investigate right away...she states "b***s***...the cops were notified."

Is there any way to get a link to her post here or is that violating TOS? :gaah:

Just makes me wonder what the heck two people dressed as police officers are doing on the nature trail approaching people! This would be a PERFECT explanation as to why L&L would have willingly gone with these two guys! They were dressed as COPS!!!

 

[Bootsctr]

Ok - just saw on FB a gal from Evansdale posted that her friend was walking the nature trail Saturday and had two men approach her and ripped her coat but she took off running. These two men were reportedly dressed like police officers. Also stating Evansdale doesn't have foot patrol so to please be careful. Her post is public and was shared via a friend of mine - how can I get her post here? If it's a public post am I able to post her name or something?
She also states (in the comments) she reported it to the cops, described as Late 20's Early 30's and someone else stated they called the Evansdale police and they stated they'd heard nothing of it and want to investigate right away...she states "b***s***...the cops were notified."

Is there any way to get a link to her post here or is that violating TOS? :gaah:

Just makes me wonder what the heck two people dressed as police officers are doing on the nature trail approaching people! This would be a PERFECT explanation as to why L&L would have willingly gone with these two guys! They were dressed as COPS!!!

Yep! That's the perfect ruse to get people, especially small children to do exactly what you tell them. Is there a public FB that you can link to and then link her FB link from there? I don't know if that is kosher either. It's infuriating that LE is obviously downplaying this report! :banghead:

 

[threecrazykids]

It's her personal FB post so not sure if it would be ok to post.

Regardless, it bothers me that not only was it stated that LE weren't aware of it, but that someone would be so blatant as to dress like cops and actually approach someone in this manner. I can see the girls going with someone dressed as an authority figure - although I will have to say, I'm still not convinced it was completely random.

What also bothers me is we're getting into hunting season again - which, IF the girls were kept in a freezer or something of the sort and then dumped later, it's that time of year again. Hopefully this is just a strange occurrence, but 2 people dressed as cops grabbing someone certainly makes me wonder...

 

[Ommmm]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/wo...#comment=be44885c-7e49-11e5-9b17-5bd44efcb60d

The police are being noticeably quiet with the details on this one, no suspect description.

 

[Aymstriss]

From what I am seeing, there was an incident in Evansdale, on the nature trail by Hoochies bar, Saturday night, 2 males; and one in Waterloo, yesterday, also on a nature/bike trail, but just one suspect.

Crazy