Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[dotr]

Recently a man was arrested for sexually assaulting a number of very young persons near by public schools.
He had allegedly been trolling and s.assaulting, for months, sometimes with his baby in the car.
He is also a stay at home dad to a 4 year old while wife works or attends school.

Could the perp in this case, be a reasonable and respectable looking man with a young child, or gives the appearance of having one, ie. child seat in the car?
Could he be someone E and L are somewhat familiar with, but not overly so, ie a divorced father visiting his children?
Might such a person call the girls over and offer a babysitting job?
imo.

 

[Bootsctr]

In referencing this article in regards to Seven Bridges being very important to identifying the killer in L&L's case, I thought I read a comment there from someone who made a very strong accusation about someone who lived in the area of Seven Bridges and ended up moving soon after the girls' abduction. I didn't bring the comment here because of TOS rules and it could have been from one of the public FB pages. Hoping someone else remembers such a comment.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...wa-girls-case-focus-wilderness-area/22794367/

Only one comment here now.

 

[Foxfire]

Anyone remember if the CODs of L & L and or autopsy reports were ever released to the public? The FBI BAU prepared a profile of the unknown subject in L & L's abduction and murders which was released to the public? Imo, the autopsy reports, CODs, behavior profile of the unknown subject, combined with the crime scene revelations should have painted a vivid portrait of the person/s responsible for L & L's abduction and murders.
Imo, it would take a very rare bird to fit the profile. MJK, was a very rare bird that had means, motive, and opportunity, imo..
____________

http://wqad.com/2014/08/22/authorities-release-possible-profile-of-suspect-in-case-of-iowa-girls/
Authorities compose possible profile of suspect in case of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins
POSTED 4:24 PM, AUGUST 22, 2014, BY KATRINA LAMANSKY, UPDATED AT 04:25PM, AUGUST 22, 2014

As families and authorities search for answers, the Evansdale Police Department has launched a webpage that provides investigation updates and suspect information, created by the FBI’s behavioral analysis unit. Click here to see the page> http://evansdalepolice.org/updates.html

The website indicates that the offender is familiar with the Meyers Lake and Angels Park in Evansdale, and Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in Bremer County, where the girls’ bodies were found, according to a report by WHO. The site says that whoever is responsible for the crime “blends in with” or may be “part of the Evansdale, Bremer” area.

It is believed that the offender used “quiet coercion” to gain the girls’ trust, according to the report.

WHO reported that authorities say the suspect may have been in a stressful situation in July 2012, perhaps related to legal troubles, marital issues, employment problems, financial strain, or mental health problems.

The suspect may avoid talking about the case, but is likely following reports from the media. Also, this person may have attempted to abduct children or adults in the past. After the girls’ disappearance, the suspect might have changed his or her appearance, like changing hair style or facial hair. The offender may also have altered his or her vehicle with a new paint job or re-upholstery.
<snipped>

Two Investigators will be traveling to Alexandria Virginia on January 28-30/2014 to meet with representatives from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for a case review.

A representative from the Evansdale Police Department and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation will be traveling to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's Headquarters in Alexandria, Virginia to conduct a case review with experts from NCMEC, the US Marshal's Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation on Thursday and Friday.
The National Center is paying all expenses associated with the trip and Iowa Investigators will be presenting the case to a large panel of experienced investigators and psychologists put together by the National Center.
It's not the first time investigators from the National Center have visited the case. Four representatives met with investigators last summer to review case information, look for further evidence and offer their forensic assistance to the case. This week's travel is a follow-up to that initial meeting and will now go to a full panel for review.
The National Center has many resources available to it by way of forensic testing, case review and intelligence gathering that they have provided since the beginning of the case and will continue to offer as needed.
Local officials are hoping that by presenting the case to this panel that they will confirm what is already known and may offer suggestions on additional testing or area's to be looked at.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

That still doesn't negate risk, he still has to get 2 victims out of a public area, but that does confirm in my mind he knows that abduction site well and felt comfortable enough to abduct 2 children in broad daylight.

To me, the probable abduction site was probably less well known than Seven Bridges. You would have had to walk or bicycle the bike path to know that there was that one little stretch that was well concealed from any observers from across the lake, whereas Seven Bridges was known as a location for keggers for years. Having acquired some lived experience during my misspent youth, my guess is that about 50% or so of all people who graduated from one of the high schools on the north and east sides of the metroplex had either attended a kegger there or knew someone who had. We're talking thousands of people over a span of 30 years.

The reason I think Meyer's Lake was the probable abduction site is because that's where the girls' bikes were found and Lizzie's purse. Of course a perpetrator who knew the area could have abducted them somewhere else and placed their bikes at the lake in order to mislead. Oddly enough, the reason I don't think the bikes were placed there from some other spot is because I think that would have been higher risk for the perp. If someone came along and saw him wrestling a child's bicycle and a larger bicycle, I think it would be harder to explain than if someone came along and saw him talking to the two girls. If he was talking to the girls, he could explain that away. If he had hold of one girl, he could explain that away. It would be really hard to explain what on earth he was doing with two bicycles, neither of which would fit him.

So, to me, one question that might be useful to answer would be "what kind of person would walk or bike on a bike path?" It would have to be someone who was willing to get out of his vehicle and actually walk around at least part of the lake rather than just conducting surveillance from his vehicle. To me, that says this is a guy who puts some effort and forethought into his trawling for potential abduction sites, unless he had some other reason (such as having children and finding the spot by accident). But your profile seems to lean away from this guy being a family guy or am I misunderstanding it?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

First Ive heard of this .....

About half those who abduct and kill children are unemployed at the time of the abduction, HOWEVER the ones that aren't are OVERWHELMINGLY employed in some unskilled labor , or semi skilled labor position usually within the construction industry .

Im wondering if any of those working on the road were questioned?

I don't know. I seem to recall that they were but cannot now find any media stories that state that. My memory, like the rest of me, is nearly 60 and not what it once was.

Indirectly, it seems like an obvious thing to check out and there have been a couple reviews of the initial phase of the investigation that said it was competent and there were no obvious errors, which would argue they were doing due diligence.

There had been some light rain in the morning that day but in Iowa during road construction season, it would take a violent thunderstorm with hail and a possibility of tornados to actually shut down work. On the other hand, someone who was working the road repair site could have used the excuse "it was raining and I thought we'd be shut down" to explain their absence that day.

I once knew someone who was a foreman on a road repair crew. One thing I remember is that he said they deliberately worked the crews hard to keep them tired and out of trouble. He said that many foremen would arrange for the crew to work 18 to 20 hours straight the first day to make sure they were tired. According to my friend, road repair is a job where having a record is not necessarily a bar for hiring and one of his tasks was to keep a bunch of guys (back in those days) who were pretty much misfits working. He said there was no such thing as days off during the project because they'd lose too many workers. It was cheaper to pay overtime than it was to keep hiring new guys and training them.

However, things may well have changed in the 30 years since he was a road repair foreman.

 

[Bootsctr]

Cause of Evansdale cousins' deaths will be kept confidential

Iowa law will allow doing so if there's a risk of jeopardizing the investigation

Jan. 2, 2013

Written by Emily Schettler

Authorities will keep secret for an undetermined amount of time the cause of death of two northeast Iowa cousins whose bodies were found in a park in December, officials said Wednesday.

In addition, authorities do not have immediate plans to release other information related to the cousins&#8217; deaths.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...ansdale-cousins-deaths-will-kept-confidential

I found several articles saying the same thing - COD not to be released. Heather, Lizzy's mom, said she didn't want to know any details. She only wanted to know when the person who did it was in custody.

Kathlynn Shepard's COD was " multiple sharp and blunt forced injuries," and will be certified as a homicide, according to information released by the Department of Criminal Investigation on Sunday. An autopsy, performed Saturday by Chief State Medical Examiner Julia Goodin, showed the injuries were to the head, said Gerard Meyers, assistant director of the Department of Criminal Investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/09/body-identified-as-kidnapped-teen/2406053/

It seems by your link FF that LE has a pretty good description of who may have done this, yet as far as I know the girls' deaths haven't even been classified as homicide. In looking at this tip flier, it seems they are looking for the person(s) responsible for their disappearance.

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfully snipped by me to focus on your question Grainne Dhu ( and I know it was meant for RichKelly, so pardon me for butting in).

So, to me, one question that might be useful to answer would be "what kind of person would walk or bike on a bike path?" It would have to be someone who was willing to get out of his vehicle and actually walk around at least part of the lake rather than just conducting surveillance from his vehicle. To me, that says this is a guy who puts some effort and forethought into his trawling for potential abduction sites, unless he had some other reason (such as having children and finding the spot by accident). But your profile seems to lean away from this guy being a family guy or am I misunderstanding it?

Maybe because I'm watching ID now, but a person like Matthew Hoffman jumps to my mind as someone who might be on the bike path and who might be really, really familiar with Seven Bridges and even live in Bremer County. He was the guy who had the tree fetish and killed 3 people and stuffed their bodies in a hollow tree.

Matthew Hoffman Insisted On Saving Tree When Making Deal With Police

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Authorities say a central Ohio man who killed three people and stuffed their bodies in a hollow tree made a deal with prosecutors to disclose where they were hidden if they saved the tree.

Hoffman was an unemployed tree cutter. He killed the three people in November 2010 and kidnapped a 13-year-old girl after a botched robbery. The girl was found alive.

The tree was in a wildlife area north of Fredericktown. Authorities say they cut it down days after recovering the bodies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-victims-bodies-tree-save-ohio_n_1511065.html

 

[Wondergirl]

Thanks , former LE actually, but Im with you , a friend of mine said to me "look at this guy" and showed me the article on Klunder , I said sounds eerily similar to what happened to those 2 young girls at the lake .

I read the background on Klunder , and if there is a blueprint of a potential serial predator , that dude was it .

AS for the Cousins, having seen a few abduction cases in my years, I feel VERY confident saying the I feel this was a lure to a vehicle . He had to get 2 of them out of there quick , Ive spoken with child predators and id say that the large majority of them prefer the use of ruse or con to lure a victim.

The reason, use of force , creates commotion grabbing a victim who starts screaming with another who can run for help is way too risky its easier to ask them to "help him find his puppy" , or see if they want something like candy, something to get them into a vehicle and away from the scene as quickly as possible .

Again I beg any parents here PLEASE PLEASE TEACH YOUR CHILDREN TO NEVER GO NEAR A STRANGE VEHICLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AND TO FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO AVOID BEING FORCEFULLY PUT IN ONE !

Once they are inside a vehicle they are almost out of the reach of help, because they can be miles away in minutes

As for the "urge" to kill again, that depends on what situational factors compelled him the 1st time, it does however lower his inhibitions to murder subsequent times.

In order to get 2 kids in broad daylight , hes practiced his craft, he can approach and talk to kids , and he knows what to say to get 2 girls at the age where they should be aware of stranger danger at least, into a vehicle several hundred yards from their bikes .

How does he develop this? trial and error , and practice , like anything else.

Was this his 1st murder ?, I tend to feel it was

The dump site tends to be as crucial a piece of information than the abduction sites, I personally would be interested in knowing if there was a 3rd site or the girls were killed where they were found ,

But either way because he has victims with him (deceased or alive) he needs to get them to an area he's comfortable with . Some place where he knows he won't be seen, which (especially if they are dead) means they are often familiar with where they leave the victim

Speaking of the recovery location - what is your opinion as to the girls final physical placement?

Do you feel there is a reason why they were separated the way they were?

Do you think there is anything that we can sleuth to try and track down these girls murderer?

 

[Bootsctr]

Also, considering there was road construction in the area, perhaps the guy was at Meyers Lake hoping to talk to the foreman about getting hired on with the highway construction crew. Maybe he planned on trying to talk to the foreman about lunch time and was waiting there in the park and the girls happened along and his plans changed.

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by RichKelly View Post
Thanks , former LE actually, but Im with you , a friend of mine said to me "look at this guy" and showed me the article on Klunder , I said sounds eerily similar to what happened to those 2 young girls at the lake .

I read the background on Klunder , and if there is a blueprint of a potential serial predator , that dude was it .

AS for the Cousins, having seen a few abduction cases in my years, I feel VERY confident saying the I feel this was a lure to a vehicle . He had to get 2 of them out of there quick , Ive spoken with child predators and id say that the large majority of them prefer the use of ruse or con to lure a victim.

The reason, use of force , creates commotion grabbing a victim who starts screaming with another who can run for help is way too risky its easier to ask them to "help him find his puppy" , or see if they want something like candy, something to get them into a vehicle and away from the scene as quickly as possible .

Again I beg any parents here PLEASE PLEASE TEACH YOUR CHILDREN TO NEVER GO NEAR A STRANGE VEHICLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AND TO FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO AVOID BEING FORCEFULLY PUT IN ONE !

Once they are inside a vehicle they are almost out of the reach of help, because they can be miles away in minutes

As for the "urge" to kill again, that depends on what situational factors compelled him the 1st time, it does however lower his inhibitions to murder subsequent times.

In order to get 2 kids in broad daylight , hes practiced his craft, he can approach and talk to kids , and he knows what to say to get 2 girls at the age where they should be aware of stranger danger at least, into a vehicle several hundred yards from their bikes .

How does he develop this? trial and error , and practice , like anything else.

Was this his 1st murder ?, I tend to feel it was

The dump site tends to be as crucial a piece of information than the abduction sites, I personally would be interested in knowing if there was a 3rd site or the girls were killed where they were found ,

But either way because he has victims with him (deceased or alive) he needs to get them to an area he's comfortable with . Some place where he knows he won't be seen, which (especially if they are dead) means they are often familiar with where they leave the victim.

<BBM for Focus>

RichKelly, Why do you feel that this was his/their first murder/s?

 

[Foxfire]

I don't know. I seem to recall that they were but cannot now find any media stories that state that. My memory, like the rest of me, is nearly 60 and not what it once was.

Indirectly, it seems like an obvious thing to check out and there have been a couple reviews of the initial phase of the investigation that said it was competent and there were no obvious errors, which would argue they were doing due diligence.

There had been some light rain in the morning that day but in Iowa during road construction season, it would take a violent thunderstorm with hail and a possibility of tornadoes to actually shut down work. On the other hand, someone who was working the road repair site could have used the excuse "it was raining and I thought we'd be shut down" to explain their absence that day.

I once knew someone who was a foreman on a road repair crew. One thing I remember is that he said they deliberately worked the crews hard to keep them tired and out of trouble. He said that many foremen would arrange for the crew to work 18 to 20 hours straight the first day to make sure they were tired. According to my friend, road repair is a job where having a record is not necessarily a bar for hiring and one of his tasks was to keep a bunch of guys (back in those days) who were pretty much misfits working. He said there was no such thing as days off during the project because they'd lose too many workers. It was cheaper to pay overtime than it was to keep hiring new guys and training them.

However, things may well have changed in the 30 years since he was a road repair foreman.

<BBM for Focus>

Know what ya mean about your memory, Grainne Dhu.. Guess, memory is only one of quite a few things that doesn't improve with age. Even at my age, L & L's abduction date comes fairly easy. It's been my birthday for over six decades..

<L & L went missing on July 13/2012>

Quote Originally Posted by mikkismom View Post
One year after Lyric & Elizabeth found murdered, case not cold

http://m.kwwl.com/w/news/story/104916976/
Smock says they know where Klunder was on June 12 and 14, but they are still looking into his whereabouts on the 13th -- the day the girls went missing.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Lyric-Cook-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012-35/page3

Originally Posted by foxfire
From Article: EC & LC were abducted July 13, 2012. Not June 13, 2012. Surely hope this is a Typo & MJ Klunder's whereabouts is not being investigated for the wrong month......

RE: Smock said that, although they are following up on a number of leads, they are still not ruling out the late Michael Klunder.

In May, Klunder abducted two girls near Dayton, Iowa, killing one of the girls before killing himself.

Smock says they know where Klunder was on June 12 and 14, but they are still looking into his whereabouts on the 13th -- the day the girls went missing.

He says they have information about where Klunder might have been, but they aren't ready to release it just yet.

________________________
<BBM>
"December 05, 2012; A day that will be etched in all of our memories for a very long time"..

EXCLUSIVE: Hunters talk about finding cousins' bodies
http://www.kwwl.com/story/24138447/2013/12/04/exclusive-hunters-talk-about-finding-cousins-bodies

That day is a day they will never forget.

Dramstad, his step-mother Amanda Miller and Miller's husband had been hunting at the park for about two hours when Dramstad came upon human remains.

"It didn't really cross our mind until after the highway patrolman had showed up and he had made a phone call," Dramstad said. "He said something over the phone about, 'I think we found the girls.'"

Miller said her family actually helped with the initial search for Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins of Evansdale, but she never thought they would be the ones who found the cousins.

"I had just prayed and prayed that somebody out there would find them as the hunters would, but never in my wildest dreams thought it would be us," said Miller.

Dramstad said he felt as though God led them to the place the girls' bodies were.

"While we were in the moment, everything just seemed so surreal while it was taking place," Dramstad said. "I almost felt as though I was being led someplace before I actually stumbled on the remains of the girls. It was just a really unearthly feeling, I guess, about the whole situation."
<snipped>

 

[Kell1]

So, to me, one question that might be useful to answer would be "what kind of person would walk or bike on a bike path?" It would have to be someone who was willing to get out of his vehicle and actually walk around at least part of the lake rather than just conducting surveillance from his vehicle. To me, that says this is a guy who puts some effort and forethought into his trawling for potential abduction sites, unless he had some other reason (such as having children and finding the spot by accident). But your profile seems to lean away from this guy being a family guy or am I misunderstanding it?

In order to approach his victims he would almost certainly get out of his vehicle, most wont if they feel they can lure a victim into their vehicle.

There are only 3 things "certain" in this case, 1) the girls were at the lake , 2) the girls were killed 3) the girls were moved ... The best way to predict the type of person who committed this (or any crime) is to look at similar cases, historically, take what evidence we do have, and add in the percentages.

In the MAJORITY of these cases the offenders are overwhelmingly White males, they tend to be about 27 years of age, that can however differ depending on certain circumstances. They majority live parents, but they sometimes also live alone, some do live with girlfriends , and in fewer cases a spouse. About half are unemployed at the time of the offense, those that are tend to be employed in either unskilled, or semi skilled labor usually within the construction industry. They are usually in the area of the abduction for "legitimate" reasons such as living or working near the site of the abduction. They are usually considered social" marginals" with few friends, and if asked would often be described as "weird". In little more than 60% of the cases, there was some triggering event prior to the abduction, which may or may not be needed in subsequent crimes, to re offend . The majority of abductions are committed with the use of a vehicle, in 75% of cases the victim is transported greater than a half mile from where they were abducted. The victim in 80% of the cases, is dead within 3 hours of the abduction , something like 50% within 1 Hr. The most chosen method of approach is force, followed closely by ruse or con.

When you apply those factors to what is known about the case, you start to see what type of animal you are dealing with ... Loner, Lives or works near that park , something set him off prior , most likely construction or labor, people will have suspected him, but because of his "non threatening" appearance, he was most likely discounted by those that did harbor suspicions. He knows the recovery site well , has spent time probably right where the girls were found . He may have moved, therefore sudden moves by area residents should be looked at.

He would have been following the case intently , I would expect him to perhaps saved, newspaper clippings, possibly recorded video of news reports, may have injected himself into the investigation (if even briefly) . But I don't think so , but was quite possibly interviewed already. I feel at some point his name came across the LE radar but hasn't been tied for some reason .

These types will often re-visit sites, (abduction/recovery/graves etc..)

 

[Kell1]

Speaking of the recovery location - what is your opinion as to the girls final physical placement?

Do you feel there is a reason why they were separated the way they were?

Do you think there is anything that we can sleuth to try and track down these girls murderer?

Could be several reasons, my gut tells me they were probably killed near the vehicle but not in the vehicle ......he might have kept them apart so one wouldn't see the other already deceased and create a commotion, or so he didn't have to look at one he already killed while killing another... as heartbreaking as that sounds.

AS for finding the killer, with todays advances in technology, were figuring out crimes that were once deemed "unsolvable", can WE do anything here"?, good question, I think what this site does best , is keep things going , when its obvious the investigation is stymied.

Even if a member brings us something with little factual basis it keeps these names at the top of the list, for others to see.

If there are people who see this it may hep them recall something about someone back then, and as Ive stated before if the individual or individuals responsible are here reading these posts, let them see that.

 

[Kell1]

<BBM for Focus>

RichKelly, Why do you feel that this was his/their first murder/s?

Child abduction murder in and of itself , is really pretty rare (its becoming more prevalent) but its not like the homicides you see every day on the news etc...

MANY of these cases are solved therefore few individuals get to re-offend

There was IMO alot of care taken to get the bodies far away from where they were abducted, this person wanted them to never be found if possible.

Though I cant be 100% certain it was it seems to me like an individual who wanted to distance himself from the crime as much as possible.

 

[Wondergirl]

Could be several reasons, my gut tells me they were probably killed near the vehicle but not in the vehicle ......he might have kept them apart so one wouldn't see the other already deceased and create a commotion, or so he didn't have to look at one he already killed while killing another... as heartbreaking as that sounds.

AS for finding the killer, with todays advances in technology, were figuring out crimes that were once deemed "unsolvable", can WE do anything here"?, good question, I think what this site does best , is keep things going , when its obvious the investigation is stymied.

Even if a member brings us something with little factual basis it keeps these names at the top of the list, for others to see.

If there are people who see this it may hep them recall something about someone back then, and as Ive stated before if the individual or individuals responsible are here reading these posts, let them see that.

Thanks.

Your opinion on motive?

Did he operate alone?

Has he committed another crime since?

Do you think the girls were specifically targeted or was it a random act by an opportunist?

If, as the profilers say, the key is in the recovery location - who the hell did this crime?

In my opinion him or his immediate family is geographically close to the recovery location.

In my opinion, he wanted 1 girl, and 2 was an unexpected bonus. The fact that he "went for" 2, tells me that this is not his first crime.

I'm frustrated as hell and don't mind saying so. The memory of this case is haunting.

Jmo

 

[Kell1]

Thanks.

Your opinion on motive?

Sexual/Anger/Frustration/Victim availability

Did he operate alone?

Most likely but it cant be ruled out with what we have here

Has he committed another crime since?

Until an arrest is made, theres no to know for sure, my feeling is no, but its possible he may have, he certainly is capable

Do you think the girls were specifically targeted or was it a random act by an opportunist?

random, most likely an opportunistic grab if there were 2 different kids there it might have been them .

If, as the profilers say, the key is in the recovery location - who the hell did this crime?

see any of my other posts, the profiles in these cases tend not to vary all that wildly

In my opinion him or his immediate family is geographically close to the recovery location.

In my opinion, he wanted 1 girl, and 2 was an unexpected bonus. The fact that he "went for" 2, tells me that this is not his first crime.

I'm frustrated as hell and don't mind saying so. The memory of this case is haunting.

Jmo

Most have histories of sexual crimes against kids , some even violent sexual crimes against kids, their background, there are often attempted abductions, that they may or may not have served time for, or even been questioned about.

Now speaking STRICTLY from opinion, I don't think this is your next serial killer, though he certainly has taken a prerequisite path, and I could be wrong , because they have in the past, I tend to feel this isn't an insatiable predator on the prowl type , I feel this was someone at the end of their proverbial rope.

I think he abducted the kids with the intention of raping them, but had to get rid of witnesses to his crime.

Now this can get technical, (and graphic) but not everyone who assaults with the intention of raping someone is actually capable of doing so .

Due to stress, panic, this type may have not actually engaged in any kind or penetrative act, but may have simply masturbated on or near the bodies.

But after 5 months in the elements, Id venture to say that any DNA evidence was most likely too deteriorated to be viable.

He had to kill them because he couldn't leave witnesses, he couldn't return them to the area or even leave them living , because he lives in the area. He knew he was going to raise eyebrows at it was, and couldnt afford to have someone finger im as an abduction rapist of kids.

And those eyebrows could have been raised because of his past actions

He most likely followed it in the media (Still does if hes still alive, or unless hes incapable) He may have a scrap book of clippings, or news video he collected, if capable h will probably google it , he may even read posts here ...

He thinks about it constantly, may have visited sites to re-live it or on some cases, ask for forgiveness. He would have been visually stressed, worried about his appearance, worried about his car, may have painted it , sold it , or drove it somewhere and reported it "stolen" (seen that once). Then he may have left the area..with little or notice . He may have started drinking more, smoking more , or using drugs more . Getting rid of anything on his person the day of the abduction (I call it shedding)

And one more thing , and this goes for everyone ..Being angry, upset, frustrated about a crime against 2 innocent girls is normal , but EVERYONE here should take time away from this board , when you dwell in death and darkness, and evil non-stop it changes you and not always for the better. Get away for awhile, enjoy life , enjoy your kids, your family. But dont spend every waking minute embroiled in the work of deviants.

 

[Foxfire]

Sexual/Anger/Frustration/Victim availability


Most likely but it cant be ruled out with what we have here


Until an arrest is made, theres no to know for sure, my feeling is no, but its possible he may have, he certainly is capable


random, most likely an opportunistic grab if there were 2 different kids there it might have been them .


see any of my other posts, the profiles in these cases tend not to vary all that wildly



Most have histories of sexual crimes against kids , some even violent sexual crimes against kids, their background, there are often attempted abductions, that they may or may not have served time for, or even been questioned about.

Now speaking STRICTLY from opinion, I don't think this is your next serial killer, though he certainly has taken a prerequisite path, and I could be wrong , because they have in the past, I tend to feel this isn't an insatiable predator on the prowl type , I feel this was someone at the end of their proverbial rope.

I think he abducted the kids with the intention of raping them, but had to get rid of witnesses to his crime.

Now this can get technical, (and graphic) but not everyone who assaults with the intention of raping someone is actually capable of doing so .

Due to stress, panic, this type may have not actually engaged in any kind or penetrative act, but may have simply masturbated on or near the bodies.

But after 5 months in the elements, Id venture to say that any DNA evidence was most likely too deteriorated to be viable.

He had to kill them because he couldn't leave witnesses, he couldn't return them to the area or even leave them living , because he lives in the area. He knew he was going to raise eyebrows at it was, and couldnt afford to have someone finger im as an abduction rapist of kids.

And those eyebrows could have been raised because of his past actions

He most likely followed it in the media (Still does if hes still alive, or unless hes incapable) He may have a scrap book of clippings, or news video he collected, if capable h will probably google it , he may even read posts here ...

He thinks about it constantly, may have visited sites to re-live it or on some cases, ask for forgiveness. He would have been visually stressed, worried about his appearance, worried about his car, may have painted it , sold it , or drove it somewhere and reported it "stolen" (seen that once). Then he may have left the area..with little or notice . He may have started drinking more, smoking more , or using drugs more . Getting rid of anything on his person the day of the abduction (I call it shedding)

And one more thing , and this goes for everyone ..Being angry, upset, frustrated about a crime against 2 innocent girls is normal , but EVERYONE here should take time away from this board , when you dwell in death and darkness, and evil non-stop it changes you and not always for the better. Get away for awhile, enjoy life , enjoy your kids, your family. But don't spend every waking minute embroiled in the work of deviants.

<BBM for Focus>
Great advice RichKelly. I've found that is much easier to enter the abyss, than it is to exit it.. Based on life experiences, we all have different tolerance levels when confronting or dwelling on the dark subject of evil.. There must be darkness present for the light to shine through.

Excellent post, RichKelly. Here is Michael J. Klunder's known timeline. If KS's friend DH had not escaped MJK's wrath on 05/20/2013, and alerted police, he would have continued his trail of terror, imo..

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

Michael Klunder Timeline

 

[Bootsctr]

Just to add to a bit of the timeline after his release:

Once released, Klunder attended a semester at a Des Moines community college, married 33-year-old*********in Florida last year, and recently bought a house with her in Stratford, records show. Klunder, 6 feet 6 inches tall and 240 pounds, had to periodically check in with authorities as a registered sex offender.

http://news.yahoo.com/investigator-missing-iowa-girls-blood-found-213309287.html

His new wife probably had him pretty busy in 2012 and his new father-in-law with the hog farming and such. Plus the course he was taking at the college - can't remember what that was.... something to do with agriculture or tree farming.... Can't remember. It's buried here somewhere I know.

"Quiet coercion" Is that considered just showing someone a weapon?

 

[Kell1]

<BBM for Focus>
Great advice RichKelly. I've found that is much easier to enter the abyss, than it is to exit it.. Based on life experiences, we all have different tolerance levels when confronting or dwelling on the dark subject of evil.. There must be darkness present for the light to shine through.

Excellent post, RichKelly. Here is Michael J. Klunder's known timeline. If KS's friend DH had not escaped MJK's wrath on 05/20/2013, and alerted police, he would have continued his trail of terror, imo..

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

Michael Klunder Timeline

I have no doubt Klunder would've killed again if he had gotten away with it

 

[Wondergirl]

Sexual/Anger/Frustration/Victim availability


Most likely but it cant be ruled out with what we have here


Until an arrest is made, theres no to know for sure, my feeling is no, but its possible he may have, he certainly is capable


random, most likely an opportunistic grab if there were 2 different kids there it might have been them .


see any of my other posts, the profiles in these cases tend not to vary all that wildly



Most have histories of sexual crimes against kids , some even violent sexual crimes against kids, their background, there are often attempted abductions, that they may or may not have served time for, or even been questioned about.

Now speaking STRICTLY from opinion, I don't think this is your next serial killer, though he certainly has taken a prerequisite path, and I could be wrong , because they have in the past, I tend to feel this isn't an insatiable predator on the prowl type , I feel this was someone at the end of their proverbial rope.

I think he abducted the kids with the intention of raping them, but had to get rid of witnesses to his crime.

Now this can get technical, (and graphic) but not everyone who assaults with the intention of raping someone is actually capable of doing so .

Due to stress, panic, this type may have not actually engaged in any kind or penetrative act, but may have simply masturbated on or near the bodies.

But after 5 months in the elements, Id venture to say that any DNA evidence was most likely too deteriorated to be viable.

He had to kill them because he couldn't leave witnesses, he couldn't return them to the area or even leave them living , because he lives in the area. He knew he was going to raise eyebrows at it was, and couldnt afford to have someone finger im as an abduction rapist of kids.

And those eyebrows could have been raised because of his past actions

He most likely followed it in the media (Still does if hes still alive, or unless hes incapable) He may have a scrap book of clippings, or news video he collected, if capable h will probably google it , he may even read posts here ...

He thinks about it constantly, may have visited sites to re-live it or on some cases, ask for forgiveness. He would have been visually stressed, worried about his appearance, worried about his car, may have painted it , sold it , or drove it somewhere and reported it "stolen" (seen that once). Then he may have left the area..with little or notice . He may have started drinking more, smoking more , or using drugs more . Getting rid of anything on his person the day of the abduction (I call it shedding)

And one more thing , and this goes for everyone ..Being angry, upset, frustrated about a crime against 2 innocent girls is normal , but EVERYONE here should take time away from this board , when you dwell in death and darkness, and evil non-stop it changes you and not always for the better. Get away for awhile, enjoy life , enjoy your kids, your family. But dont spend every waking minute embroiled in the work of deviants.

Agreed. Be careful the places you go in your mind, because to think like deviants or attempt to think like them, to understand them and try to figure things out, is often a "place" that you can't escape.

From experience.

Jmo