Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[Foxfire]

Actually its always better to wait, the BIGGEST mistake anyone can make is to make assumptions based upon what they THINK they know .

You're always better off listening to those with experience, who are working on a case.

<BBM for Focus>

RichKelly, I honor and respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with your last statement. The close to the vest investigative strategy of the 1970s being utilized by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office in the L & L investigation is likely the reason that this case has grown cold, imo. Although it has been over three years since their abductions/murders, the BHCSO refuses to release critical info to the public that could very well solve this case, imo. An aware citizenry is LE's most valuable investigative resource..


http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved
If you're murdered in America, there's a 1 in 3 chance that the police won't identify your killer.

Martin Kaste reported this audio story in two parts on Morning Edition and All Things Considered. Listen to Part 1 above. To hear Part 2, click the audio link below.

To use the FBI's terminology, the national "clearance rate" for homicide today is 64.1 percent. Fifty years ago, it was more than 90 percent.

And that's worse than it sounds, because "clearance" doesn't equal conviction: It's just the term that police use to describe cases that end with an arrest, or in which a culprit is otherwise identified without the possibility of arrest &#8212; if the suspect has died, for example.

Criminologists estimate that at least 200,000 murders have gone unsolved since the 1960s, leaving family and friends to wait and wonder.
<snipped - read more>

 

[Squeeze]

Isn't that weird? You'd think that with the technology and science we have now, that the clearance rate would be higher.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[Grainne Dhu]

The demographic make up of the area isn't as significant as the correlative data we already know Child abduction homicides
-White males make up the majority of offender demographic in these cases
-White females make up the majority of the victim demographic in these cases

That is interesting to me because my impression from reading about and following serial killer cases is that at one time, it was thought that serial killers stayed within their own race, probably due to reasons of race. Then, starting in the late 1980s, LE started finding serial killers who were crossing race lines and this was a bit of a surprise. What??!!! It turns out that the most likely explanation is that it changed because US society changed and it was no longer exceedingly rare to see a white person interacting with an African-American person. It just blended in and so serial killers could cross the race line knowing that the risk of being remembered simply for the fact of being seen with a person of a different race was much lower than it had been, say, 30 years before.

No Ive never seen or heard of a case where people relocate back to an area , only for brief periods (visit etc..) if they have

The data in these cases however would prove otherwise , its rare for it to be that thought out prior , most are just what it sounds ... opportunity grabs.

Youre not really dealing with the Criminal Mastermind with these guys...

I think that is my great limitation in trying to figure out how these guys think. They often seem like they are just not that smart and that lack of brains goes well beyond being flustered in the heat of the moment.

Oh well. That goes right along with what one LE person said about Gary Ridgway, that he was like the idiot savant of serial killers. There was only one thing he did well and that was to kill.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I wonder if any of the highway construction workers were from or living near the recovery location?

If they were, LE hasn't said anything about it that I know of.

I wouldn't expect them to be living near Seven Bridges while they were working on the interstate because that's a heck of a commute by Iowa standards. They might live in the area during the 8 to 9 months of the year that is not construction season.

I think if there were anyone like that, it would mean they would pop up in more than one category. From what I understand of the software LE uses in cases like this, names that pop up in more than one category get flagged for extra scrutiny.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Wondering if children and perhaps young adults too, are being warned to be extra cautious in the Evansdale area ?

SBM

I have a friend that I am in regular email contact with who lives very close to Evansdale and has a 14 year old daughter (this year). She says they haven't gotten any sort of special warnings, just the usual school warnings about student safety. No particular mention or focus on the risk of abduction. More time spent on what the rules for pedestrian and bicyclist safety are than anything else.

Which makes sense because kids, even teens, are more at risk from vehicle collisions than from abduction.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

When I looked at the maps and the videos showing Seven Bridges, I was struck by the area where the girls were found. It was so close but seemed so isolated away from where the picnic tables and trashcans were located - where I assume everyone partied. The road seemed to make the outer perimeter of the whole park but did not encompass the one area they were in, almost like it wasn't part of the park. No wonder no one stumbled upon them earlier. I wonder if that area was used mainly as a place to relieve oneself?

I believe the investigators covered the whole area while searching for clues.

There is a pit latrine out there. Of course, it's fairly common for men out of doors to pee on any tree (men are dogs... just kidding!) but I don't know any men who would walk all that far away from a party or whatever to do so. Maybe 10 feet but not over a hundred feet. I can't think of any kegger I attended in my misspent youth where people didn't stick fairly close to the vehicle parking area. Those kegs are heavy!

 

[Kell1]

<BBM for Focus>

RichKelly, I honor and respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with your last statement. The close to the vest investigative strategy of the 1970s being utilized by the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office in the L & L investigation is likely the reason that this case has grown cold, imo. Although it has been over three years since their abductions/murders, the BHCSO refuses to release critical info to the public that could very well solve this case, imo. An aware citizenry is LE's most valuable investigative resource..


http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved
If you're murdered in America, there's a 1 in 3 chance that the police won't identify your killer.

Martin Kaste reported this audio story in two parts on Morning Edition and All Things Considered. Listen to Part 1 above. To hear Part 2, click the audio link below.

To use the FBI's terminology, the national "clearance rate" for homicide today is 64.1 percent. Fifty years ago, it was more than 90 percent.

And that's worse than it sounds, because "clearance" doesn't equal conviction: It's just the term that police use to describe cases that end with an arrest, or in which a culprit is otherwise identified without the possibility of arrest &#8212; if the suspect has died, for example.

Criminologists estimate that at least 200,000 murders have gone unsolved since the 1960s, leaving family and friends to wait and wonder.
<snipped - read more>

You have to figure in Homicides are more prevalent as well which makes for a MUCH larger caseload for investigators, the numbers cannot be compared from the 60's until today because where a detective in a large metropolitan area in 1960 may have had 20 homicides in a year to investigate, some investigators in large metropolitan departments will top that in a month

What isn't mentioned is how many convictions have been overturned or how many of those have been wrongly imprisoned in that era of law enforcement ,we are far more technologically advanced than what we once were, not to mention that back then homicides were not reported nationally as they are now , many most likely went unreported.

Add into that the increased unwillingness for people to speak with police in modern days, less people coming forward =Less crimes being solved

That in and of itself is a huge roadblock to an investigation.

Because of advances in technology we also need now to investigate more than they had to in the past, we now have internet records, cell phone records , text messages, Social media , etc...

Though in the 60's they may have had a higher rate of crimes being solved 1) there were less of them, 2) There was a much higher chance they were wrong 3) populace more willing to work with police

There will always be those who have some doubt about the police , especially in cases that drag on grow cold , and even more so with cases that involve kids. That's not to say in some cases it isn't warranted, because police can and sometimes do botch investigations

But to say that those with NO criminal investigative experience are better off investigating on their own than listening to what police give them is a bit off the mark

Let's look at it from a different angle , let's say you were going in for heart surgery, I can't say for certain, but I can with some conviction (no pun) that you're gonna want someone with experience, or at very least someone who's a doctor.

If something goes wrong , everyone and their mother is going to look to blame the doctor, there's going to be an investigation, there's going to be inquiry's there's going to be a lawsuit .... Even Though its common knowledge that heart surgery does carry some risks with it if you will.

It's similar in police work,...... the only difference is that more people will swear they know, more (or better) than the police in some cases, you don't see too many people arguing with surgeons.

That is part of the reason some police dept's will only release so much information, they want all eyes looking for the type of individual they think is responsible , not 50,000 different theories on what happened

Releasing certain info may (and very well will) jeopardize this investigation, we know there are 2 victims already , they are trying to not only find who did it , but to prevent more . that may mean sitting on certain things even if the public doesn't agree with it .

 

[Kell1]

That is interesting to me because my impression from reading about and following serial killer cases is that at one time, it was thought that serial killers stayed within their own race, probably due to reasons of race. Then, starting in the late 1980s, LE started finding serial killers who were crossing race lines and this was a bit of a surprise. What??!!! It turns out that the most likely explanation is that it changed because US society changed and it was no longer exceedingly rare to see a white person interacting with an African-American person. It just blended in and so serial killers could cross the race line knowing that the risk of being remembered simply for the fact of being seen with a person of a different race was much lower than it had been, say, 30 years before.

Youre correct most do , 1) were not talking about a series (not yet anyway) and 2) that statistic is not 100% accurate , some will victimize outside their own race.

Would he have grabbed the 2 girls if they were black, or any other ethnic group?, I cant say it depends on what his sexual preference is , if it didnt matter , he wouldve grabbed them .

With loosening attitudes regarding race over time, the relevance of serial crimes (remember were talking about serial crimes in this aspect) crossing racial lines began to surface.

I think that is my great limitation in trying to figure out how these guys think. They often seem like they are just not that smart and that lack of brains goes well beyond being flustered in the heat of the moment.

Oh well. That goes right along with what one LE person said about Gary Ridgway, that he was like the idiot savant of serial killers. There was only one thing he did well and that was to kill.

Listen, when I got started I was a lot like you, It was like going to a 5 star restaurant, you sit down look at the menu , you order and..... out comes...... a cheese sandwich (The chosen prey item of Former FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood I might add)

I was expecting to hear about the criminal elite, these guys who were the thing of myth and legend, to be submerged into the depths of depravity.....

And here I got a cheese sandwich.

Now there are details in many of their histories that will leave jaws on the floor , including sexual abuse, physical abuse, some of their exploits are both interesting and disturbing (Interesting to those who are studying them) to most its just foul

But when you get down to it , they aren't all that different than you or I , they however tend to be psychologically predisposed to deviant violent acts, and have been in situations that provided fertile ground for the maturation and eventually the execution of their acts

 

[dotr]

Articles concerning race, offenders and their victims, for anyone who might be interested.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201412/serial-killer-myth-6-they-are-all-white

"The myth that all serial killers are white is related to another commonly held myth that most murders, including serial murders, are inter-racial in nature&#8212;that is, the perpetrator and victim are from different races. The reality is that homicides of all types in the U.S. are generally intra-racial in nature.

By a wide margin, most murder victims, including serial murder victims, are from the same race as their killer. In approximately 90 percent of all homicides the killer and victim are from the same race. This is the reality of race and homicide in the U.S. The popularly held and sometimes politicized notion that most murders are inter-racial is simply not accurate. It fact, reality is exactly the opposite of the myth.

The myth that all serial killers are white is routinely fueled and reinforced by the entertainment news media. This situation persists because the major news outlets, particularly television networks such as HLN, are far more likely to provide coverage of homicides and missing person cases involving white victims than incidents involving racial minority victims."


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...les-are-rarely-murder-victims-or-perpetrators

"For important sociological reasons, an attractive, young, white, female murder victim evokes great interest, concern and sympathy among the general public. High viewership by the public leads to increased advertising revenue for television networks, so the news and entertainment media prioritize and promote stories involving pretty, white, female murder victims.

In reality, however, a white female is the least likely of all demographics to be a homicide victim. She is far less likely than a black female or a male of any race to become a murder victim in the U.S. According to the statistics for 2013, which is the most recent full-year data available from the UCR, white females comprised 13 percent of the 12,253 murder victims reported.

The victimization rate for white females was 1.6 per 100,000 persons in 2013. This compares to rates per 100,000 persons of 4.4 for black females, 4.0 for white males and 32.3 for black males. The victimization rate for black females was three times greater than the rate for white females. While black females and white males were at comparable homicide risk, the victimization rate for black males was eight times greater than either of them, and 20 times greater than the rate for white females."
rbbm.

 

[Kell1]

Articles concerning race, offenders and their victims, for anyone who might be interested.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201412/serial-killer-myth-6-they-are-all-white

"The myth that all serial killers are white is related to another commonly held myth that most murders, including serial murders, are inter-racial in nature&#8212;that is, the perpetrator and victim are from different races. The reality is that homicides of all types in the U.S. are generally intra-racial in nature.

By a wide margin, most murder victims, including serial murder victims, are from the same race as their killer. In approximately 90 percent of all homicides the killer and victim are from the same race. This is the reality of race and homicide in the U.S. The popularly held and sometimes politicized notion that most murders are inter-racial is simply not accurate. It fact, reality is exactly the opposite of the myth.

The myth that all serial killers are white is routinely fueled and reinforced by the entertainment news media. This situation persists because the major news outlets, particularly television networks such as HLN, are far more likely to provide coverage of homicides and missing person cases involving white victims than incidents involving racial minority victims."


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...les-are-rarely-murder-victims-or-perpetrators

"For important sociological reasons, an attractive, young, white, female murder victim evokes great interest, concern and sympathy among the general public. High viewership by the public leads to increased advertising revenue for television networks, so the news and entertainment media prioritize and promote stories involving pretty, white, female murder victims.

In reality, however, a white female is the least likely of all demographics to be a homicide victim. She is far less likely than a black female or a male of any race to become a murder victim in the U.S. According to the statistics for 2013, which is the most recent full-year data available from the UCR, white females comprised 13 percent of the 12,253 murder victims reported.

The victimization rate for white females was 1.6 per 100,000 persons in 2013. This compares to rates per 100,000 persons of 4.4 for black females, 4.0 for white males and 32.3 for black males. The victimization rate for black females was three times greater than the rate for white females. While black females and white males were at comparable homicide risk, the victimization rate for black males was eight times greater than either of them, and 20 times greater than the rate for white females."
rbbm.

Excellent post, an interesting parallel is that those statistics are opposite in instances of child abduction homicides , White females were the majority etc....

 

[Foxfire]

You have to figure in Homicides are more prevalent as well which makes for a MUCH larger caseload for investigators, the numbers cannot be compared from the 60's until today because where a detective in a large metropolitan area in 1960 may have had 20 homicides in a year to investigate, some investigators in large metropolitan departments will top that in a month

What isn't mentioned is how many convictions have been overturned or how many of those have been wrongly imprisoned in that era of law enforcement ,we are far more technologically advanced than what we once were, not to mention that back then homicides were not reported nationally as they are now , many most likely went unreported.

Add into that the increased unwillingness for people to speak with police in modern days, less people coming forward =Less crimes being solved

That in and of itself is a huge roadblock to an investigation.

Because of advances in technology we also need now to investigate more than they had to in the past, we now have internet records, cell phone records , text messages, Social media , etc...

Though in the 60's they may have had a higher rate of crimes being solved 1) there were less of them, 2) There was a much higher chance they were wrong 3) populace more willing to work with police

There will always be those who have some doubt about the police , especially in cases that drag on grow cold , and even more so with cases that involve kids. That's not to say in some cases it isn't warranted, because police can and sometimes do botch investigations

But to say that those with NO criminal investigative experience are better off investigating on their own than listening to what police give them is a bit off the mark

Let's look at it from a different angle , let's say you were going in for heart surgery, I can't say for certain, but I can with some conviction (no pun) that you're gonna want someone with experience, or at very least someone who's a doctor.

If something goes wrong , everyone and their mother is going to look to blame the doctor, there's going to be an investigation, there's going to be inquiry's there's going to be a lawsuit .... Even Though its common knowledge that heart surgery does carry some risks with it if you will.

It's similar in police work,...... the only difference is that more people will swear they know, more (or better) than the police in some cases, you don't see too many people arguing with surgeons.

That is part of the reason some police dept's will only release so much information, they want all eyes looking for the type of individual they think is responsible , not 50,000 different theories on what happened

Releasing certain info may (and very well will) jeopardize this investigation, we know there are 2 victims already , they are trying to not only find who did it , but to prevent more . that may mean sitting on certain things even if the public doesn't agree with it .

<BBM for Focus>

Rich Kelly, I am not implying that those with no criminal investigative experience are better off investigating on their own than listening to what police give them. We are living in the communication era, and awareness is critical to solving missing/murdered persons cases. Especially in child abductions cases where a stranger sexual predator is indicated.

The citizenry is analogous to a security camera across the landscape of the USA. Without adequate info released by investigators, citizens may not know that the info they have is an important clue. Yes, the citizens are only one tool or resource of many available to investigators, as are nurses, or a surgical scalpel, to a surgeon..

RichKelly, it was over two years before the profile of the unknown suspect in L & L' abduction was released to the public. BHCSO investigators neither found out who was responsible, nor prevented another abduction due to their antiquated silence strategy, imo.
Imo there is a reason that L & L's remains were left 25 miles from the abduction site. This is only one of many indicators that L & L were abducted by a brazened and experienced/recidivist child predator; no stranger to the game, imo..

<There may be as many as seven different crime scenes possible in L & L's abduction/murder. Someone likely saw something, imo>

"Linkage blindness," a term coined by DR Stephen Egger in 1984; "Police don't share information across jurisdictional boundaries," Egger said. "There's always some friction there." Agencies prefer to worry only about their own jurisdiction, instead of sharing information to work together to solve a murder. Dr Egger says a serial murder investigation may, but not always, have as many as seven different crime scenes: the place the victim was initially lured, transportation to a different location, the place the victim was kept, transportation to another location, where the victim was killed, where the body was dumped, and where the weapon was dumped.

"The offender brings something to the crime scene, leaves something at the crime scene, and takes something away from the crime scene," Egger said..

_____
Investigators Release Suspect Profile in Murder of Evansdale Cousins
POSTED 10:12 AM, AUGUST 22, 2014
http://whotv.com/2014/08/22/investigators-release-suspect-profile-in-murder-of-evansdale-cousins/

_______

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...hlynn-shepards-sister-first-mom-says/4799625/

Kathlynn Shepard and DH were not the first girls approached by Michael Klunder in Dayton on May 20, lawmakers and others learned today.

Klunder, who kidnapped Shepard and Hughes as they walked home from school last May, first approached Shepard's younger sister, JH, then 12, as she was walking home from school,

 

[lawstudent]

Read about this case a few times and saw it on my feed, but the discussion seems much more general on this page so I'm not sure if there are recent developments. A few things caught my eye. Aren't homicide rates on a steady decline? I don't think they are more prevalent versus the 60s, although I'm sure a lot more are reported and investigative techniques are a lot better. I'm also confused about the whole incorrect assumption of "interracial serial killing" and "all serial killers are white" relationship. If people think they are all white due to assumptions that the crimes are interracial, they would then be assuming all victims are non-white. I don't think that is true, especially with the biased media coverage mentioned. Obviously there are serial killers of all races, and most killings are intraracial, and sociological factors/biases skew the statistics. But serial killing cases definitely are going to be statistically different than homicides as a whole - and if this case hasn't been solved through DNA, it may be more of an opportunity crime than a deliberate serial killing with a pattern. In that case, demographic majorities are going to come into play if you look at pure numbers, but it still is such a random crime that it seems very hard to narrow down.

 

[Wondergirl]

******

 

[Wondergirl]

<BBM for Focus>

Rich Kelly, I am not implying that those with no criminal investigative experience are better off investigating on their own than listening to what police give them. We are living in the communication era, and awareness is critical to solving missing/murdered persons cases. Especially in child abductions cases where a stranger sexual predator is indicated.

The citizenry is analogous to a security camera across the landscape of the USA. Without adequate info released by investigators, citizens may not know that the info they have is an important clue. Yes, the citizens are only one tool or resource of many available to investigators, as are nurses, or a surgical scalpel, to a surgeon..

RichKelly, it was over two years before the profile of the unknown suspect in L & L' abduction was released to the public. BHCSO investigators neither found out who was responsible, nor prevented another abduction due to their antiquated silence strategy, imo.
Imo there is a reason that L & L's remains were left 25 miles from the abduction site. This is only one of many indicators that L & L were abducted by a brazened and experienced/recidivist child predator; no stranger to the game, imo..

<There may be as many as seven different crime scenes possible in L & L's abduction/murder. Someone likely saw something, imo>

"Linkage blindness," a term coined by DR Stephen Egger in 1984; "Police don't share information across jurisdictional boundaries," Egger said. "There's always some friction there." Agencies prefer to worry only about their own jurisdiction, instead of sharing information to work together to solve a murder. Dr Egger says a serial murder investigation may, but not always, have as many as seven different crime scenes: the place the victim was initially lured, transportation to a different location, the place the victim was kept, transportation to another location, where the victim was killed, where the body was dumped, and where the weapon was dumped.

"The offender brings something to the crime scene, leaves something at the crime scene, and takes something away from the crime scene," Egger said..

_____
Investigators Release Suspect Profile in Murder of Evansdale Cousins
POSTED 10:12 AM, AUGUST 22, 2014
http://whotv.com/2014/08/22/investigators-release-suspect-profile-in-murder-of-evansdale-cousins/

_______

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...hlynn-shepards-sister-first-mom-says/4799625/

Kathlynn Shepard and DH were not the first girls approached by Michael Klunder in Dayton on May 20, lawmakers and others learned today.

Klunder, who kidnapped Shepard and Hughes as they walked home from school last May, first approached Shepard's younger sister, JH, then 12, as she was walking home from school,

Excellent point, Foxfire, about linkage blindness.

ViCLAS - The violent crime linkage system utilized by Canada's RCMP, helped catch one of our most notorious killer's, former Colonel Russell Williams.

Geographical linkages are extremely important and as in Williams case, there were literally victims living beside each other, a few doors down , a few cities away and all over the frickin place, and it was when the data was entered into ViCLAS that the linkage was made and THEN the public was warned.....hundreds of victims later.....sophisticated software AND LE AND the public - ALL contribute to solving these heinous crimes. The devil is in the details. The crimes are not necessarily escalating in nature. The beast who did this to these precious girls could very well have changed several components of his crime to keep ahead of LE.

Extremely interesting reading on geographical linkage software ViCLAS here:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/tops-opst/bs-sc/viclas-salvac-eng.htm

 

[Foxfire]

Read about this case a few times and saw it on my feed, but the discussion seems much more general on this page so I'm not sure if there are recent developments. A few things caught my eye. Aren't homicide rates on a steady decline? I don't think they are more prevalent versus the 60s, although I'm sure a lot more are reported and investigative techniques are a lot better. I'm also confused about the whole incorrect assumption of "interracial serial killing" and "all serial killers are white" relationship. If people think they are all white due to assumptions that the crimes are interracial, they would then be assuming all victims are non-white. I don't think that is true, especially with the biased media coverage mentioned. Obviously there are serial killers of all races, and most killings are intraracial, and sociological factors/biases skew the statistics. But serial killing cases definitely are going to be statistically different than homicides as a whole - and if this case hasn't been solved through DNA, it may be more of an opportunity crime than a deliberate serial killing with a pattern. In that case, demographic majorities are going to come into play if you look at pure numbers, but it still is such a random crime that it seems very hard to narrow down.

<BBM for Focus>

Welcome to the thread lawstudent. I am not aware of any recent developments in this case. I think that many of us that sleuthed the L & L abduction/murders in July 2012 have kept an eye on the case and are frustrated at the lack of progress in the investigation..

This FBI Serial Murder symposium held in 2006 clears up some assumptions/myths concerning serial killers and their preferred victims.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

<snipped for focus - read more>

The relative rarity of serial murder combined with inaccurate, anecdotal information and fictional portrayals of serial killers has resulted in the following common myths and misconceptions regarding serial murder:

Myth: Serial killers are all dysfunctional loners.
The majority of serial killers are not reclusive, social misfits who live alone.

Myth: Serial killers are all white males.
Contrary to popular belief, serial killers span all racial groups. There are white, African-American, Hispanic, and Asian serial killers. The racial diversification of serial killers generally mirrors that of the overall U.S. population.

Myth: Serial killers are only motivated by sex.
All serial murders are not sexually-based. There are many other motivations for serial murders including anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention seeking.

Myth: All serial murderers travel and operate interstate.
Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation. They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor point (e.g. place of residence, employment, or residence of a relative). Serial murderers will, at times, spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone, when their confidence has grown through experience or to avoid detection.

&#8226; one or more offenders
&#8226; two or more murdered victims
&#8226; incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times
&#8226; the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder

In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events.

 

[Kell1]

<BBM for Focus>

Rich Kelly, I am not implying that those with no criminal investigative experience are better off investigating on their own than listening to what police give them. We are living in the communication era, and awareness is critical to solving missing/murdered persons cases. Especially in child abductions cases where a stranger sexual predator is indicated.

The citizenry is analogous to a security camera across the landscape of the USA. Without adequate info released by investigators, citizens may not know that the info they have is an important clue. Yes, the citizens are only one tool or resource of many available to investigators, as are nurses, or a surgical scalpel, to a surgeon..

RichKelly, it was over two years before the profile of the unknown suspect in L & L' abduction was released to the public. BHCSO investigators neither found out who was responsible, nor prevented another abduction due to their antiquated silence strategy, imo.
Imo there is a reason that L & L's remains were left 25 miles from the abduction site. This is only one of many indicators that L & L were abducted by a brazened and experienced/recidivist child predator; no stranger to the game, imo..

<There may be as many as seven different crime scenes possible in L & L's abduction/murder. Someone likely saw something, imo>

"Linkage blindness," a term coined by DR Stephen Egger in 1984; "Police don't share information across jurisdictional boundaries," Egger said. "There's always some friction there." Agencies prefer to worry only about their own jurisdiction, instead of sharing information to work together to solve a murder. Dr Egger says a serial murder investigation may, but not always, have as many as seven different crime scenes: the place the victim was initially lured, transportation to a different location, the place the victim was kept, transportation to another location, where the victim was killed, where the body was dumped, and where the weapon was dumped.

"The offender brings something to the crime scene, leaves something at the crime scene, and takes something away from the crime scene," Egger said..

_____
Investigators Release Suspect Profile in Murder of Evansdale Cousins
POSTED 10:12 AM, AUGUST 22, 2014
http://whotv.com/2014/08/22/investigators-release-suspect-profile-in-murder-of-evansdale-cousins/

_______

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...hlynn-shepards-sister-first-mom-says/4799625/

Kathlynn Shepard and DH were not the first girls approached by Michael Klunder in Dayton on May 20, lawmakers and others learned today.

Klunder, who kidnapped Shepard and Hughes as they walked home from school last May, first approached Shepard's younger sister, JH, then 12, as she was walking home from school,

AHH Ok I apologize I thought you were implying that the public should be privy to full disclosure in investigations

I agree in some aspect,however in MOST cases nowadays, most departments will share info, primarily in cases like this one, the issue is that there's no way to get that info unless an official request is made from the department.

Even then linkage analysis are tough, look at the Klunder example .. in the FBI's history only 13 or so cases of more than multiple child victims being abducted and murdered existed on the files of the largest law enforcement agency in the world, yet Klunder managed to pull it off twice!.... In this case however they feel this wasn't Klunder who was responsible.

Barring exclusionary evidence to the contrary , Klunder is my guy , But LE says hes not .

Now although LE says that Michael Klunder didnt kill the cousins, I can say with a fair amount of certainty the person who killed those girls was alot like Michael Klunder .

Perhaps not such a diverse criminal history as Klunder, but definitely a sexual deviant, who was over the edge at the time he committed the crime .

What needs to be understood is that those same facts can also jeopardize the investigation, investigators have to weigh the options on what exactly the do release

-The minute I release the type and color of vehicle, he neither owns it anymore, or its not that color anymore, the minute I say he was familiar with the area , he moves, the minute I say he had something set him off, hes making good with apologies, the type of shoes for example (Nightstalker case) ... theyre gone .




In terms of an informed public, I agree, however, contrary to popular belief not every fact should be known by the public, I know many want to know everything and I don't blame the, but there are often reasons why certain info isn't released to the public.

Though an informed public is certainly an asset, it can also be a hinderance, when it leads to speculation.

Speculation will often turn into thousands of potential "leads", and even though that sounds promising, it now takes time and effort to check out every one of those leads, which in most cases will be a dead end.

Man power (barring the creation of a task force) is usually limited in cold cases, to chose those leads as well.

 

[Foxfire]

Thanx for your reply, RichKelly..

 

[Bootsctr]

Thanx for your reply, RichKelly..

:ditto: Excellent food for thought... especially about shoes and vehicles and moving. I have thought that the person who did this is like Klunder, but smarter. Klunder was pretty sloppy with Kathlynn Shepard and D's abduction. He seemed to over-estimate his control over the younger victim by leaving her unattended and able to flee the scene.

Whomever did this to L&L was able to hide the bodies where they were not discovered for 5 months. Not much in the way of DNA at the dump site I suspect. And if they were killed in the vehicle, it's probably been sold or dumped too.

"The area where the bodies were found is accessible by only one road, 270th Street, Smock said. Though the river is nearby, a drought in the summer of 2012 would have made boating impossible."

"The chief remained tight-lipped when questioned about details of the cousins' disappearance. For instance, Smock said investigators have "an idea" of how much time passed between the girls' July 13, 2012, disappearance and when they were killed. However, he would not release that detail to reporters."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...wa-girls-case-focus-wilderness-area/22794367/

RichKelly, do you have any thoughts regarding how long the girls were really held? I have read 2 or 3 days as opposed to being killed within 1 to 3 hours of being abducted. Could the killer have access to a large freezer in which he could have stored the girls' bodies?

TYIA!

 

[Kell1]

:ditto: Excellent food for thought... especially about shoes and vehicles and moving. I have thought that the person who did this is like Klunder, but smarter. Klunder was pretty sloppy with Kathlynn Shepard and D's abduction. He seemed to over-estimate his control over the younger victim by leaving her unattended and able to flee the scene.

More likely he was acting out of anger and frustration at that point , Klunder tried to approach victims earlier that day I believe, and was unsuccessful, in this aspect you see the predatory nature of his offenses, he immediately went to other victims when unsuccessful.

Someone that day was going to be abducted by Michael Klunder , they were going to be sexually assaulted most likely were they going to be murdered?.... probably , but I sometimes wonder if the other victim escaping sparked his anger, where the most common form of killing the victim n these cases is strangulation usually manual , this was ALOT different, Shepard endured a horrific brutal death.

Though I cant say for sure whether or not the victim escaping resulted in Shepard's death, I can say I strongly feel it had something to do with the amount violence she endured

RichKelly, do you have any thoughts regarding how long the girls were really held? I have read 2 or 3 days as opposed to being killed within 1 to 3 hours of being abducted. Could the killer have access to a large freezer in which he could have stored the girls' bodies?

TYIA!

Without any direct access to case files the best we can do is to look at what we do know (which isnt much) and apply data in these cases to it .

For the most part (I wont go into all the percentages again) the vast majority (like 90%) are killed within the first 3 hours of the abduction.

The majority of deceased victims arent held, its too risky for an offender who most likely lives with his parents or some kind of guardian type .

Th body recovery site tells us that hes most likely comfortable (in general the recovery site is a more reliable behavioral indicator).

In most cases, the body recovery site and the murder site are within 200 feet of each other or less, this is where he is comfortable taking these girls to do what he intends, to do , he is going to kill them there because he feels he can do so unseen, then he is going to leave them there .

Though I cant say for sure , I don't beleive the girls were held.

If they were I can't see them being alive for more than 24 hours even in the most extreme case. I don't feel he took them anywhere other than where they were found , 2 victims is too risky , it's most likely on the news within 2-3 hours (most abductions are reported in that time), out on AMBER Alerts etc...

He had to get them out of there and in a damn hurry.

This abduction , barring the fact that it was 2 victims instead of 1 , isnt all that different than any other abduction homicide you can read about on any other page.

Therefore barring any evidence that LE has not released, or has deliberately changed for whatever reason, there's no reason to suspect this offender will be much different than what we already know of these types

 

[Kell1]

Thanx for your reply, RichKelly..

No prob