IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

[GrainneDhu]

No.... The dogs that killed Diane Whipple were Pressa Canarios.

Bull Mastiffs are "gentle giants", very sweet, & wonderful family dogs.

The ones I've met have been wonderful.

I did kinda wonder why the Collinses chose a Bullmastiff puppy because the breed is known to suffer from cardiomyopathy. Seems like a strange choice for a family with a human family member suffered from something similar.

Then I realised that, as comparatively rare as Bullmastiffs are, there's a good chance the Collinses got a puppy from a breeder who tests for cardio and doesn't breed affected dogs.

 

[SouthernMom]

1 perp abducted Dylan and Shasta Groene. Therefore one perp cannot be ruled out. This forum is filled with the names of children who were abducted in broad daylight on busy roads. Going to school, coming home from school, going or coming from a friends home, delivering newspapers, etc. All were gone in the blink of an eye. IMO, either the perp had a weapon or the older girl offered to go with to try to protect the younger girl. It was a crime of opportunity.
I hope these young girls are found soon.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Oh another reason an icecream truck would be out late, they have no license & don't want to get caught possibly. Not saying this icecream truck has anything to do with the girls missing though.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I know he is self-employed, but does he have any employees?

Or does he sometimes take one or more of his kids along to watch him work?

 

[SapphireSteel]

The random abductor who grabbed Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck moved their bikes. He put them into his truck and then loaded their bikes.

Did he TAKE the bikes, or did he STAGE the bikes?

Two different things. Plus, he only took one child at a time.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

If he was hired, maybe that is why the FBI was after the cash receipts from the other
Casey's.

 

[jmcmahon]

It isn't that easy though, because of the fence. Look at the attached birds-eye view of the "trap" area. You can actually see the fences on both sides clearly. The bikes were found in the middle of the screen. The fence that is on the lake side of the trail goes way down to the West. It has already been determined that nobody could have parked a car on the highway (construction, down to one lane) to abduct them, so the hidden car would have had to be in the woods. Look how far they'd have to go around that fence to get back to the car. I don't see how that could happen in 8 minutes and not have TG see them.

The timeline with 8 minutes is rather tight, but I don't think overall unreasonable. The US Department of transportation has done studies before on the average speed that people travel on shared-use paths (e.g., trails like that around the lake). Statistically speaking, the average speed of a child cyclist is just under 8 mi/hr. Looking at the CCTV footage, it does not appear that the two were cycling at a leisurely pace. Assuming a faster than average pace puts them at that location just around 8 minutes, perhaps slightly over. Now, further assuming that this was a crime of opportunity (either by happenstance of running across them, or by waiting at that position), the two girls would just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now if someone was going to abduct them, its not like the abductor(s) and the two girls are going to stand around talking for any length of time -- they would probably be led or taken away rather quickly, if that was the plan. Assuming it takes only a few minutes for all of this to go down, means you are only up to 10 or 11 minutes (all that needs to be done is remove the girls from the fenced in area and perhaps get into the woods and out of sight). 10--11 minutes seems within a very reasonable margin of error of the precise time that the bikes were noticed.

 

[SapphireSteel]

1 perp abducted Dylan and Shasta Groene. Therefore one perp cannot be ruled out. This forum is filled with the names of children who were abducted in broad daylight on busy roads. Going to school, coming home from school, going or coming from a friends home, delivering newspapers, etc. All were gone in the blink of an eye. IMO, either the perp had a weapon or the older girl offered to go with to try to protect the younger girl. It was a crime of opportunity.
I hope these young girls are found soon.

Again, Dylan and Shasta were different.

The perp took them from their own home, and had plenty of time to do it, no prying eyes because the house was isolated and the family dead.

He could do it because it was easy.

This abduction would not have been easy...unless there were at least two perps.

 

[Pensfan]

Did he TAKE the bikes, or did he STAGE the bikes?

Two different things. Plus, he only took one child at a time.

He did exactly what you stated a random abductor wouldn't do. He was fluffing around loading their bikes instead of just getting the heck outta there.

Did you check out Arbutus Ave? Without houses on that road and with the tall weeds, it is desolate.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Dan Morrissey did it for me. When I read this quote I was done with ice cream vans, pedal boaters, craigs listers...

"The area where the bikes were found is fenced on both sides, and it is right where maintenance gate is it is a spot that looks to me like a trap," Dan Morrissey said. "Somebody could have just come along right then or followed them down it would have been the worst spot to be in right there."

I think he's right.

I think that someone came along right then, and followed them down.

:moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

He did exactly what you stated a random abductor wouldn't do. He was fluffing around loading their bikes instead of just getting the heck outta there.

Did you check out Arbutus Ave? Without houses on that road and with the tall weeds, it is desolate.

No I'm sorry, I did not say that.

I said a random would not bother to stage the bikes.

The guy you speak of did not stage the bikes. Further, he only took one child. This abductor/s took two, which means we are speaking of entirely different scenarios.

 

[GrainneDhu]

A sexually lonely guy...like a howling dog...but he at least has a job.

Too bad that desperation doesn't work as well as a repellent for mosquitoes as it does to repel people of the desired gender.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sounds like you have this all wrapped up, so I guess we can all just move on to thenext case. When are you filling LE in?

Why the snark? Aren't we on the same side?

I'm only doing what everyone is doing which is discussing theories and my reasons for discounting some over others.

:banghead:

 

[Mimiof8]

Lol, I'm going to bed.

 

[Pensfan]

Dan Morrissey did it for me. When I read this quote I was done with ice cream vans, pedal boaters, craigs listers...

"The area where the bikes were found is fenced on both sides, and it is right where maintenance gate is it is a spot that looks to me like a trap," Dan Morrissey said. "Somebody could have just come along right then or followed them down it would have been the worst spot to be in right there."

I think he's right.

I think that someone came along right then, and followed them down.

:moo:

I believe that Ollipop said something extremely similar to that before DM. Several others have stated that the area where their bikes were found is well known for being isolated and scary. Recognized a dangerous area in the bike trail doesn't make one guilty of abducting the girls.

 

[JaimeInLA]

If we are working with the 8 minute time frame, and I am, there is simply NO TIME for this level of staging by a random, and NO MOTIVE EITHER.

For whoever said, an ice cream truck was at the vigil...hell I'm looking into a hotdog van, and if there's a crowd, I'll be there. It's how these guys make their money :doh: You won't be in business very long if your customers keep disappearing, either! Food vans have to be licenced and inspected, and trust me, local governments do police these things. There will be local govt staff around that lake all day, doing various chores, unnoticed. They check things like food vans.

Translates to unnecessary risk. Child abductors just aren't into risk, and usually not very good at planning. Just get any old car and grab a kid outside a school, it's much easier and any idiot can do it...look at Jaycee.

I know how it happened, I've got a damn good idea who did it, but one thing I'm stuck on is WHY, but that's always the hard part. Normal thinking people really don't want to think there's that level of cold and calculating in the world, but there is.

Please tell us!!!!
lease:

 

[Thinkzerz]

I know how it happened, I've got a damn good idea who did it, but one thing I'm stuck on is WHY, but that's always the hard part. Normal thinking people really don't want to think there's that level of cold and calculating in the world, but there is.

Care to share your theory?

 

[katydid23]

Dan Morrissey did it for me. When I read this quote I was done with ice cream vans, pedal boaters, craigs listers...

"The area where the bikes were found is fenced on both sides, and it is right where maintenance gate is it is a spot that looks to me like a trap," Dan Morrissey said. "Somebody could have just come along right then or followed them down it would have been the worst spot to be in right there."

I think he's right.

I think that someone came along right then, and followed them down.

:moo:

But it might have been a pedal boater, ice cream man or a craigs list creeper who was there and able to follow them down the path. imo

 

[Nvgirl]

Again, Dylan and Shasta were different.

The perp took them from their own home, and had plenty of time to do it, no prying eyes because the house was isolated and the family dead.

He could do it because it was easy.

This abduction would not have been easy...unless there were at least two perps.

That case was so horrible. What scares me about that case is he was driving by highway and saw kids toys and new kids would be there :-( Just because of that we always put our kids toys up cause we live along a major highway. I hate that case so bad, it gives me nightmares!!!!

 

[Mimiof8]

Why the snark? Aren't we on the same side?

I'm only doing what everyone is doing which is discussing theories and my reasons for discounting some over others.

:banghead:

Because you pretty much came in discounted everyones theories and told us you knew how it was done and pretty sure you knew who you just didn't know why.

You shouldn't discount what everyone else believes while promoting your theory. We all need to work together. That said I'm going to bed.