Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 #16

[Jon Glass]

In these types of investigations, the media is hounding people all the time to talk. Journalists can make their careers breaking open a true crime story, they can secure book deals that make their careers. While they do great work and I have a great deal of respect for the press, they don't always act in the victim/LE's best interest. If they hound the family to talk, they encourage any feelings that LE isn't being open enough with the family, they are the ones publishing a "new" story in a big case that is getting national attention. It's that journalist's name on the byline.

Most journalists and outlets will respect LE requests to not publish something or requests to embargo information until a certain date and time. But they also have an interest in breaking news, selling clicks, and getting stories.

Sorry... I know you would like to tie in a journalistic bottom line, and click bait... But, does her father come off as a guy who is going to change course in the middle of the incestiinvest, and be fooled by a reporter..? I just don't get that vibe

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this morbid end of the possibility spectrum......so I will.....though I hope and pray it doesn't happen......

If she's deceased - the worst case (in my mind) would be that she could be buried deeply in the middle of a cornfield and would never be found.

For those of us that are familiar with corn fields know - you would definitely have enough room and time to dig a deep enough grave - without any chance of being detected (once you're safely in the field) - especially given MT's height and weight.

With the rains we're sure to get before harvest - that will help to further conceal the grave.

I truly hate to bring this up - but all options/outcomes should be considered.

I'm sure LE has considered this scenario (along with a lot of you as well) and this obviously provides more of an incentive to get her HOME ASAP!!!!

Even if she was buried, bloodhounds and disturbed dirt, wouldn’t render her discovery impossible. It would certainly complicate things substantially though. It’s a good point, as I tend to picture the discovery of a body just laid out above ground. Burial is definitely a viable scenario though.

 

[SteveP]

Mollie is 5'2, 120 lbs according to the missing posters. That is a very petite girl. It would not take much at all to overpower or force her into a vehicle. I hate this idea, but based on what we know thus far, could be the case.
Although I am not ruling out that someone she was familiar with coaxed her into a vehicle.

I agree, it would not take a lot to overpower or force someone Mollie's size into a vehicle, but Mickey Schunick was 5'1 and about 115 soaking wet, and damn near killed the sob that took her. I hope that if the need arose, Mollie had that kind of fight in her.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree, it would not take a lot to overpower or force someone Mollie's size into a vehicle, but Mickey Schunick was 5'1 and about 115 soaking wet, and damn near killed the sob that took her. I hope that if the need arose, Mollie had that kind of fight in her.

Which could play into the identification of her perp if/when they find her body. Many a case has been solved with DNA found under the fingernails of a victim.

 

[Jon Glass]

Sorry... I know you would like to tie in a journalistic bottom line, and click bait... But, does her father come off as a guy who is going to change course in the middle of the incestiinvest, and be fooled by a reporter..? I just don't get that vibe

That was supposed to be "investigation"... Not sure what happened there

 

[1987]

Iowa's big drug issue is meth. That gets cooked out in the middle of nowhere. People in a town are the users, and MT and friends didn't have meth issues. Meth users usually just want to be left alone to do more meth and abduction isn't really their MO. Just my opinion...

and how do they finance this meth? they may wish to just be left alone but don't think they just leave others alone.

 

[Deleted member 227458]

I’m firmly of the opinion that Mollie was abducted. The scenario that she ran away, simply doesn’t hold water based on what we know about her, and the circumstances of her disappearance. If she was abducted, the most plausible scenario is that it was sexually motivated. If this is what in fact happened, then we know that generally, victims don’t live long beyond the initial abduction and subsequent assault. There are many plausible scenarios here, but I find this to simply be the most likely, and as such, it is unlikely to end well.

BBM, yes, exactly that. What we know about MT does not support that she is "voluntarily missing." There is no evidence that she has a pervasive mental illness or had a psychotic break. She appears to have strong family ties and close relationships/attachments. There is also no evidence to support that she would be so cold, callous or narcissistic to "disappear herself"...even if she had taken off on a sudden flight of fancy, does anyone here seriously entertain the notion that she would not at least have gotten word to her family/loved ones somehow by now that she was okay? Especially seeing the level of their emotional distress and the collateral damage her disappearance was causing, including the cancellation of her bf's brother's wedding! IMO, if MT were able, she would have let them know by now that she was all right. I have reached the same sad conclusion that you have, MG. I just hope she can be located. Oh, how I would love for both of us to be wrong about this!!!

 

[InvSmith]

Why do you believe this?

I agree and this lays it well. This would be answered prayers. Mollie Tibbetts' father: 'We can get her home'

 

[NewMama]

Who had scratches on their arms or face? Who had bruises?

I wonder if any local car washes have surveillance cameras? From a "if this was a local" standpoint. Maybe they've tried to have their vehicles detailed.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM, yes, exactly that. What we know about MT does not support that she is "voluntarily missing." There is no evidence that she has a pervasive mental illness or had a psychotic break. She appears to have strong family ties and close relationships/attachments. There is also no evidence to support that she would be so cold, callous or narcissistic to "disappear herself"...even if she had taken off on a sudden flight of fancy, does anyone here seriously entertain the notion that she would not at least have gotten word to her family/loved ones somehow by now that she was okay? Especially seeing the level of their emotional distress and the collateral damage her disappearance was causing, including the cancellation of her her bf's brother's wedding! IMO, if MT were able, she would have let them know by know she was all right. I have reached the same sad conclusion that you have, MG. I just hope she can be located. Oh, how I would love for both of us to be wrong about this!!!

Well said. I’m an optimist by nature myself, but I never conflate what I want to happen, with what I think will happen. Time will tell here, but all evidence points to foul play.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

this is what i was thinking. we shouldn't read too far into any statements, interviews, etc. i take it more as the dad being hopeful that she is alive somewhere not that he knows she is. i can't remember who it was but i remember years ago in some missing person's case the mom saying "she's gonna be in so much trouble when she comes home" figuring her daughter had just run off. but it turned out that she had been murdered.

And there are cases where it's the opposite - someone posted around back in thread #9 or #10 about a case where the mom of a missing woman still believed her daughter was out there alive somewhere, even after LE had convicted her killer through circumstantial evidence or other means, he confessed, but they haven't found her body. Each situation is unique, but all share the horrible aftermath of a loved one going missing, which makes everyone (LE, family, friends, community of Mollie's, people here on this forum and all across the country and world) just want to strive for and continue to fight for answers.

 

[who knew?]

To clarify, taking cue from Dad that Mollie taken by someone with NO intent to harm her....

Actually, it's been my opinion since day 1 based on a few things I can't link on here. But as I have said every single time, I know I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. And maybe I'm just hoping she's alive. The longer this goes, the less chance of her being retrieved alive. But I feel like it was someone she knew - there is NO evidence of a forced abduction. There would be something left behind, or someone would have heard or seen something, IMO.
I'm getting off here for tonight with the hopes we have answers tomorrow.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Someone mentioned Chandra Levy - how I recall that case like it was happening today. I knew DC and the whole case kept pointing to the Rock Creek Park. The Washington Post and many newspapers across the country carried the news with pictures of a grid search which was supposed to include ALL of Rock Creek Park. The image was of a group of Police Cadets walking in lines through the park. It all looked so impressive.

At the same time the details, or rumors or I don't know what to call them today, about Chandra and a particular Congressman were what the public focused on.

Fast forward many years and a little boy with his dad in Rock Creek Park found Chandra's skull. The gridsearch had not been done adequately. They missed part of a ravine. When asked about it after the discovery, the excuse/explanation was 'it was too steep for the cadets".

Well - I believed the Cadets were for largely for show. Walking a straight line through a open park may have looked great on camera but honestly it made zero sense to me then.

When it comes to Missing Persons you have to think "where would be a good place to conceal someone'?

And then set out to clear each one. One by one. Do we have the equipment/tools today for what happened to Chandra to not happen again? Anyone know for sure?

There are several rivers in this region. And one poster on a different thread even mentioned a "ravine" along one of them.

I would really like to know what technology we have to clear surface waterways and ravines and gullies?

Maybe the robot challenges has produced something that LE can use? Or droids? I really would like to hear about advancements. I know the Sheriff mentioned he went up in a State Police plane on Jan 24th.

That comment struck me similar to the cadet photo - did he expect to find something easily visible from a plane? Maybe the plane had some sort of special camera or magnifier to allow him to see close to the surface.

Over and over I have watched interviews of successful recoveries and there is usually something out of the normal but only apparent up close - the prison in the woods that sicko built in SC could have not been seen from the air. It took men searching on the ground.

There is a terrific video showing LE using machetes to cut paths through a wooded area to find a tiny little girl less than 3 yrs old who had wondered away. I know we are not allowed to link to it. But I hope it is OK to mention it. Many may recall seeing it. Police spanned out on ATVs , some in trucks, and others on foot radiating out until they heard her cry. It was so wonderful.

I know it is very different when a tiny tot wanders off and a teen/adult just vanishes. But shouldn't the same sort of strategy be deployed? Just a wider net? And since Interstates are in play particular messages go up along that roadway? I believe most interstate systems have information boards which help motorists understand possible road construction ahead or slower traffic or which exit to take for some big event! Can they be used to get the word out someone is missing. Many of us have amber alerts enabled on our phones. Why can't we just get messages about ANY ONE MISSING? Maybe with a photo right away? Cast the net as wide as possible.

Do searches have to be done only by LE in IA? Or else a case could easily be compromised?

I am hoping we can get a verified SAR Tracker to jump on the thread. Until then, I'll share what I know from volunteering.
Perps don't always conceal bodies. Some are dumped in ravines, fields, sides of roads, you name it. But some do conceal. Searching outdoors is incredibly difficult. In the case of missing DJ Mike Grefner in Whistler, B.C., the grid searches literally walked within inches of his remains and didn't "see" him. It's just really hard to "see" remains outdoors.
LE has all sorts of sonar, drones, cave cameras, and so forth. No lack of technology, just lack of resources. Donating to a reputable SAR 501C3 organization is always a great thing to do.

 

[TPeeFitz]

Moved from THREAD 15 -

TPeeFritz wrote " ...If Mollie is still alive at this point, she is in a relatively low risk situation, ...

I asked how you reached that conclusion.

TPeeFritz replied "Simply comparative to other, more potentially urgent needs. Haven’t gotten there by anything other than assuming that if she is still alive, almost three weeks after the fact she is already in way less danger than many others at this very moment. I’m going on statistics. I believe that that is the most common way of deciding how to split resources when they are limited."

OK - am I following your train of thought right -

The "LOW RISK" was more directed at you believing LE's inability to find her by now means she should be considered a LOWER priority for LE? Because there are new cases and LE should move their resources there?

I have another question based on your reply post -

You said you were going on stats - I would love to take a look at them.

Because honestly I have no reason to believe there are proper stats for the USA when it comes to MISSING PERSONS. There is no standards which require any case to make it to NCIC. Right now we have some places with missing person cases and other places we have found remains who are yet to be identified.

Common sense tells me if we were doing things right this would not be reality.

There is clearly communication breakdown at some point. It could include folks not being allowed to submit a missing person report, a report being forced to be placed far from the last known location, reports being improperly classified as a runaway or voluntary with little to no work before being closed.

That last one is precisely why the FBI created the RUNAWAY category - but we never made it mandatory for every single case to be submitted. So the numbers are skewed which means the stats are wrong.

I would really like to take a look at what you are using as reference work.

Moved from THREAD 15 -

TPeeFritz wrote " ...If Mollie is still alive at this point, she is in a relatively low risk situation, ...

I asked how you reached that conclusion.

TPeeFritz replied "Simply comparative to other, more potentially urgent needs. Haven’t gotten there by anything other than assuming that if she is still alive, almost three weeks after the fact she is already in way less danger than many others at this very moment. I’m going on statistics. I believe that that is the most common way of deciding how to split resources when they are limited."

OK - am I following your train of thought right -

The "LOW RISK" was more directed at you believing LE's inability to find her by now means she should be considered a LOWER priority for LE? Because there are new cases and LE should move their resources there? -this in some ways

I have another question based on your reply post -

You said you were going on stats - I would love to take a look at them.

Because honestly I have no reason to believe there are proper stats for the USA when it comes to MISSING PERSONS. There is no standards which require any case to make it to NCIC. Right now we have some places with missing person cases and other places we have found remains who are yet to be identified.



Common sense tells me if we were doing things right this would not be reality.

There is clearly communication breakdown at some point. It could include folks not being allowed to submit ha missing person report, a report being forced to be placed far from the last known location, reports being improperly classified as a runaway or voluntary with little to no work before being closed.

That last one is precisely why the FBI created the RUNAWAY category - but we never made it mandatory for every single case to be submitted. So the numbers are skewed which means the stats are wrong.

I would really like to take a look at what you are using as reference work.

More missing persons cases are resolved more quickly today, then 10+ years ago, mostly because of technology

The FBI designates severe, urgent missing person cases as “endangered or involuntary.” Approximately 15% of missing person cases are given that classification each year; most of them are applied to children.

There are as many as 100,000 active missing persons cases in the U.S. at any given time

The fact that every day that passes, every hour that passes, the less likelihood of a missing person being found alive and well is a fact that can’t be disputed. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence, but certainly am not willing to do a ton of research as of this moment because I am already spending an obsessive amount of time on this.

 

[Veracity]

They can use infrared cameras on helicopters: This is how infrared cameras and maggots are solving murders

Are we using them?

 

[watson1]

and how do they finance this meth? they may wish to just be left alone but don't think they just leave others alone.

they steal stuff from everyone they know and then begin stealing from strangers. they barter with the stuff or pawn it or take it to a scrapper for cash.

 

[Michellecliff]

If they have narrowed it down to certain people based on Mollie's calls, texts, etc then they have probably tried to interview those people. If anyone declined to be interviewed I'm sure that would raise LE's suspicions. If LE doesn't have enough evidence to get a search warrant for the person's car, residence, computer and phone then they are left to surveillance, interviewing the person's friends and family, etc.

And keep in mind his person could be going to work every day or doing their normal routine and not actually be with Mollie the whole time but have her locked up somewhere. Makes it harder for LE because they have to watch everyone they are at all suspicious of and wait for them to make a mistake.

 

[GhostGhost]

Someone mentioned Chandra Levy - how I recall that case like it was happening today. I knew DC and the whole case kept pointing to the Rock Creek Park. The Washington Post and many newspapers across the country carried the news with pictures of a grid search which was supposed to include ALL of Rock Creek Park. The image was of a group of Police Cadets walking in lines through the park. It all looked so impressive.

At the same time the details, or rumors or I don't know what to call them today, about Chandra and a particular Congressman were what the public focused on.

Fast forward many years and a little boy with his dad in Rock Creek Park found Chandra's skull. The gridsearch had not been done adequately. They missed part of a ravine. When asked about it after the discovery, the excuse/explanation was 'it was too steep for the cadets".

Well - I believed the Cadets were for largely for show. Walking a straight line through a open park may have looked great on camera but honestly it made zero sense to me then.

When it comes to Missing Persons you have to think "where would be a good place to conceal someone'?

Thanks.

Chandra Levy was jogging, she was wearing headphones, and the other Victims of that Perp were also jogging with headphones.

She wasn’t found for a long time, and people were saying she moved to a foreign country, she was moved away to have a baby, etc, and then intense coverage came with Politician, Gary Condit.

There are lots of cases of female joggers getting grabbed.

 

[clearskies1]

From what I can tell the population of Brooklyn Iowa is only about 1,500. The odds are the culprit is male in the 20-45 age range. LE probably knows most of the townspeople and likely suspects who in that demographic group is crazy enough to do something like this. Hopefully, they are requesting interviews of those people. Of course, the culprit could be from outside Brooklyn, I know.

 

[CoreyRocks]

I,to this day, still don't understand what happened to Sheri Papini ... strange case, but she is alive.

I may be naive, but want to believe Mollie is still alive. Too dark to believe otherwise. I can't give up hope. Mollie I'm still here waiting for "found safe" to appear at the top of your thread.