IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

[MistyWaters]

I think that kidnapping is a predicate felony that also raises this to Murder One. And he did kidnap her, or at least he may have killed her in the attempt. I wonder if theft of her iPhone would meet the bar?

Edit: Apparently, it has to be a forceable felony. I think that felony assault and battery might also reach the bar.

Okay, here’s this.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/707.pdf

On the arrest warrant linked on page one of this thread is the specific section (referenced by a #) that CR was charged under.

Hint- it’s 707.2.1.a.

Not 707.2.1.b (forcible felony)

 

[MsBetsy]

It will be very interesting to see if LE could see where he drove around based on his phone since he used it to find here he left Mollie.

I was also wondering if he’s trying to make appear to be a crime of passion, stabbing is up close and personal, it he did say for some reason he was just drawn to her, how many more has he just been drawn to?

Also maybe she was left face up because he was sitting on top of her when he inflicted the wounds, he wanted her to watch, to show her who the boss is, to punish her for not wanting him.

He only covered her up with corn stalks to hide her body, not like other crimes of passion where they cover the victim out of “love or caring” for that person.

Yikes!!! ( part about sitting on her) etc, etc. .. Good points. No telling what this creep did. The cell phone thing is really incredible to me. Can't imagine why in the world he wouldn't immediately turn it off or destroy , disable it, or whatever. How could he NOT know it would leave a trail? The whole thing( according to him) started with her the threats to call police. Getting rid of the evidence right away would be the most logical thing to do.I don't get it. Edited because I made so many mistakes. ( I always see other people explaining the reason for editing but this is the first time I have done it. If I did it every time it would be longer than the post.)

 

[gillglock]

I am convinced more than ever that Rivera is a combination of a disorganized and organized killer. He left the body where it was yet attempted to hide it, he planned carefully but was careless in other ways. He seems to have become enraged and attacked in a frenzy, as if spontaneous, yet evidence shows that he planned and it was premeditated . There are so many things that point to this. If he is a serial killer, then it would appear that this was his first kill. No way of knowing for sure now, but he may have perfected his skills over a period of time. Jmo

Maybe he was not alone. Hence the two MO's

 

[Alethea]

Also, a retainer is held in a client trust account. Each state has its own rules but it's essentially escrow. You track your time and expenses and bill your client, it is just deducted from the money held in trust. Your client can fire you at any point and you would return the money held as a retainer. It's basically there so you don't do a ton of work and then get stiffed. It's not like someone gives you a blank check. The retainer may never get spent, or it may get spent down over the course of a year or two. Usually they're calculated based on what your client has specifically hired you to do.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I’ve posted this several times already so I’m not going to dig up the links again but if you look up the specific section under which CR was charged with first degree murder on the arrest warrant, it involves premeditation, not forcible felony.

Right, but while committing murder "willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation" is ONE of the circumstances that can allow for a charge of Murder One, there are other "gateways" to the same charge, as when the victim dies because of your actions while you are committing a forceable felony. The example being that of a perp who impulsively rapes a middle aged woman who dies of a heart attack as a result. No premeditation on the perp's part, but still Murder One. This is under Iowa code 707.2.


So, I was just opining what other predicate felonies reach the bar to make a murder a Murder One charge. This if it becomes impossible to forensically prove rape with MT. Surely kidnapping and/or felony assault and battery would validate the Murder One charge. Maybe in this case armed robbery if CR had a knife in play when he took the cell phone.

 

[whiskers]

My guess is he pleads guilty
No trial so all speculation left on the table

I've thought that as well. This past week I keep thinking of Jesse Matthews and pleading guilty to murdering both Morgan Harrigton and Hannah Graham. (probably others as well and we may never know.) No trial and he keeps all of his secrets.

So I went back to where I was a few years ago and found this article: Jesse Matthew Pleads Guilty to Murders of Harrington and Graham

What stands out to me when I read this again with fresh eyes is this quote: "Graham's left nasal bone had piece of a bone that was broken away, and that she likely died by strangulation or suffocation. It appeared the UVA student fought back, as witnesses told investigators that Matthew had a swollen jaw at work immediately after the time she was murdered."

Mollie's dad says she's a fighter. She would fight back. We may never know because his co-workers are scared and worried, but I wonder if anyone saw anything different with CR the next day. Scratches, swollen jaw, etc. A fight would show that.

 

[KaaBoom]

The embassy in the link I gave stated they helped with counsel on any serious crime. Mexico needs the money their citizens send back from America so they will protect them through legal means.

Money has absolutely nothing to do with it. The US does exactly the same for US citizens arrested in Mexico and other countries. All countries have an obligation to make sure their citizens are treated fairly by other governments.

Remember when Trump used his political powers to get some certain basketball players released from jail in China? He didn't just provide them consular services. He demanded the Chinese just release them and let them go scot-free. Complaining about foreign governments helping their citizens who are imprisoned in the US, when we have a president that demands that American criminals be released from foreign prisons, is not logical.

Arrest of a U.S. Citizen

The Department of State is committed to ensuring fair and humane treatment for U.S. citizens imprisoned overseas. We stand ready to assist incarcerated citizens and their families within the limits of our authority in accordance with international law, domestic and foreign law.

Arrest of a U.S. Citizen | U.S. Embassy & Consulates in Mexico

 

[MistyWaters]

Right, but while committing murder "willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation" is ONE of the circumstances that can allow for a charge of Murder One, there are other "gateways" to the same charge, as when the victim dies because of your actions while you are committing a forceable felony. The example being that of a perp who impulsively rapes a middle aged woman who dies of a heart attack as a result. No premeditation on the perp's part, but still Murder One. This is under Iowa code 707.2.


So, I was just opining what other predicate felonies reach the bar to make a murder a Murder One charge. This if it becomes impossible to forensically prove rape with MT. Surely kidnapping and/or felony assault and battery would validate the Murder One charge. Maybe in this case armed robbery if CR had a knife in play when he took the cell phone.

I agree, it’s rather confusing to unravel.

When LE announced the arrest of CR, the word “abduction” was mentioned. So why wasn’t CR charged with murder one, forcible felony, on the surface easier to prove? The only reason I can think of to the contrary is because there’s clear evidence he stalked her (aside from him admitting it) and it’s known for certain that she died before she was placed in the trunk of the car (ie Fitbit data), therefore a sexual assault can’t be proven or wasn’t involved. And he had readily available whatever weapon that resulted in multiple sharp force injuries to prove intent.

Mollie Tibbetts search: What we know about her abduction

ETA Depending on what amount is “multiple” - 5? 20? 40? there could also be intent involved in the brutality of the crime.

 

[whiskers]

Also, a retainer is held in a client trust account. Each state has its own rules but it's essentially escrow. You track your time and expenses and bill your client, it is just deducted from the money held in trust. Your client can fire you at any point and you would return the money held as a retainer. It's basically there so you don't do a ton of work and then get stiffed. It's not like someone gives you a blank check. The retainer may never get spent, or it may get spent down over the course of a year or two. Usually they're calculated based on what your client has specifically hired you to do.

How much is usually issued into the initial retainer?

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe he was not alone. Hence the two MO's

Wow, trying to imagine that scenario. Would end up arguing throughout the whole thing! But seriously, others have thought this possible too. After all, they could not see who was in the car. But, I would imagine IF there were two, that Rivera would be trying to pin it on " the other guy."

 

[Karmakazi]

One thing I would like to see more on this thread consider:

Cristhian Bahena Rivera is currently innocent in the eyes of the law. Per the statements from her family, Mollie would want a fair trial for him. He should be tried based on his actions and not where he is from or why he is here. Those other things are not relevant. I'd ask that people stop referring to him as a "killer" or "monster" or whatever else has been said. Take your direction from Stud Tibbetts -- he knows more about what Mollie would want than any of us.

I’m not sure you (or any of us) can presume to say what Mollie or her family would want. They might not even know. There are 5 stages of grief, and we don’t know what stage Mollie’s family members are right now. Also what they want/vocalize in public can be quite different than how they feel in private, and both of these can change as time passes and they move through grief stages.
We all know CR presumed innocent until proven guilty, but unless we’re picked for the jury, this isn’t our decision. Thus, I believe this forum is where we can freely express our opinions on innocence /guilt based on evidence and conjecture.

 

[JenniD]

Since the car is not in his name. Is it possible it’s a shared car? Which then leads me to wonder if someone else was possibly with him in the car. I feel like by now though if there was an accomplice, they would have been brought in.

Regarding the car not being in his name-which one? Maybe it is registered to the same identity he used to secure employment

 

[MsBetsy]

He knows how to use google maps on his phone. He probably has a data plan for internet use. $30 a month on ATT with your own phone.

True, but Google maps are much easier to understand than most anything said on this site, jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Regarding the car not being in his name-which one? Maybe it is registered to the same identity he used to secure employment

That’s what I was thinking too.

 

[whiskers]

Regarding the car not being in his name-which one? Maybe it is registered to the same identity he used to secure employment

Very good point. We don't what name or identity it's registered to. I'm wondering if Iris and her family or his aunt and uncle. Or perhaps a false name. moo. One of many questions we simply don't know.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Okay, here’s this.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/707.pdf

On the arrest warrant linked on page one of this thread is the specific section (referenced by a #) that CR was charged under.

Hint- it’s 707.2.1.a.

Not 707.2.1.b (forcible felony)

Sure, the arrest warrant written just after the body was just found is sufficient as a preliminary charge of willful, deliberate, and premeditated murder. But going into court, I would think that the prosecutor might want a few more pegs to hang his hat on, and thereby limit the defense's strategy. Having a couple of qualifying charges for Murder One means that the defense has to do more than cast doubt on intent and premeditation, concepts that could be tenuous in this case. JMO

 

[geevee]

Right, but while committing murder "willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation" is ONE of the circumstances that can allow for a charge of Murder One, there are other "gateways" to the same charge, as when the victim dies because of your actions while you are committing a forceable felony. The example being that of a perp who impulsively rapes a middle aged woman who dies of a heart attack as a result. No premeditation on the perp's part, but still Murder One. This is under Iowa code 707.2.


So, I was just opining what other predicate felonies reach the bar to make a murder a Murder One charge. This if it becomes impossible to forensically prove rape with MT. Surely kidnapping and/or felony assault and battery would validate the Murder One charge. Maybe in this case armed robbery if CR had a knife in play when he took the cell phone.

In my post I was actually exploring why CBR might not admit to rape when confessing (fear of facing a stiffer charge/sentence as opposed to being embarrassed by having committed a rape) but I appreciate the discussion on this area.

 

[Jealoushe]

I don't know if anyone answered me yet, but I had asked the poster if this represented some sort of guilt on the killers side. I thought someone had said they had read about the body rarely being left face up. I hadn't heard this. I was wondering if it was associated with not wanting to see the victims eyes, feeling shame immediately after the killing or something like that. I think it was Kapua. Maybe she's gone. Left us to figure it out ourselves!

Body lying face up to me suggests sexual assault, killed, left for dead.

 

[MistyWaters]

Sure, the arrest warrant written just after the body was just found is sufficient as a preliminary charge of willful, deliberate, and premeditated murder. But going into court, I would think that the prosecutor might want a few more pegs to hang his hat on, and thereby limit the defense's strategy. Having a couple of qualifying charges for Murder One means that the defense has to do more than cast doubt on intent and premeditation, concepts that could be tenuous in this case. JMO

Do you know why additional qualifying charges weren’t indicated at the onset?

 

[MistyWaters]

Body lying face up to me suggests sexual assault, killed, left for dead.

Face up really proves nothing as the same could be said for face down.