IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

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I was thinking the question is really whether Mollie being left face up holds any psychological clues as to the killers mindset. I've read some killers will not leave their victims face up, but I haven't read anything regarding those that do.

I dug around a little and found this article that references body posing and organized v. disorganized killers. Serial killers have to have a first victim ... I wonder off and on where CR would fit on the serial killer profile spectrum, if at all. MOO

Serial Killers: Modus Operandi, Signature, Staging & Posing
 
I do not believe he had an accomplice, but I am not convinced that there may not be an accessory after the fact, perhaps someone who saw him come back home that night, was told what had happened, and helped him dispose of his bloody clothing, and maybe took possession of Mollie's IPhone and/or FitBit, to either keep or destroy, maybe even helped clean up the car, and then kept quiet. JMO
I've always thought somebody had to see something. Even if they didn't notice while she was missing I would think they would be trying to remember things now. What didn't seem important to them before may be significant to them now. Does anyone now if LE has been interviewing people since the arrest?
 
I know that can be done. My grandmother (paternal) said she was amazed that I don't remember ever seeing my father lose his temper, because she knew I saw him beat my mother almost every night. I'm sure that at the moment it happened, I probably remembered well enough to function properly (and behave around my father) but blocking unpleasant things out is pretty easy when it's one of your main coping mechanisms. I'm not saying that any of that scenario happened, but I do believe it's possible to block out seeing something traumatic happen - and probably possible to remember cleaning up the mess afterwards (although I've never been one to clean up after anyone, even myself if I can help it!) MOO

Yes you can block. Usually it’s an unpleasant thing you witness but not as often an act you directly commit. It will be interesting to see what psyche evals are done for the courts benefit.

I will almost guess his attorneys will wind up paid by the court. It happens that they begin as private then move over to contract from the public defenders office. And believe the attorney situation is solid yet. I think it will either change or have additions.
 
Just tossing in the topic of Satellite imagery, happened to be mentioned in another case. That was the first time I’d ever heard of satellite imagery used for crime-solving but it crossed my mind regarding this case, when outdoor elements are involved.

Example only -

View attachment 144279
Winnipeg police say it’s possible Thelma Krull was abducted
I just wonder how well they can zoom in. If they can zoom in really well, I have no doubt that there might be other eyes in the sky that did see this happen. Whether certain agencies would want to reveal where and how good those eyes in the sky are is another question. I did consider it, though, because I remember looking at satellite data trying to find MH370.
 
I am sure it has happened, but given CR's education level, and given the fact that English is not his first language, along with the unlikelihood that the trailer he lived in had great internet connections, I think the odds that he ever checked into this site are slim. JMO

He knows how to use google maps on his phone. He probably has a data plan for internet use. $30 a month on ATT with your own phone.
 
I do not believe he had an accomplice, but I am not convinced that there may not be an accessory after the fact, perhaps someone who saw him come back home that night, was told what had happened, and helped him dispose of his bloody clothing, and maybe took possession of Mollie's IPhone and/or FitBit, to either keep or destroy, maybe even helped clean up the car, and then kept quiet. JMO
All very good points.
 
I dug around a little and found this article that references body posing and organized v. disorganized killers. Serial killers have to have a first victim ... I wonder off and on where CR would fit on the serial killer profile spectrum, if at all. MOO

Serial Killers: Modus Operandi, Signature, Staging & Posing
I don't know if anyone answered me yet, but I had asked the poster if this represented some sort of guilt on the killers side. I thought someone had said they had read about the body rarely being left face up. I hadn't heard this. I was wondering if it was associated with not wanting to see the victims eyes, feeling shame immediately after the killing or something like that. I think it was Kapua. Maybe she's gone. Left us to figure it out ourselves!
 
Yes you can block. Usually it’s an unpleasant thing you witness but not as often an act you directly commit. It will be interesting to see what psyche evals are done for the courts benefit.

I will almost guess his attorneys will wind up paid by the court. It happens that they begin as private then move over to contract from the public defenders office. And believe the attorney situation is solid yet. I think it will either change or have additions.
I was just responding to her post saying that a person isn't going to (or likely to, I don't remember which) block out a violent crime if they were just a witness to it. I know that for most of my life I had a tendency to even block out conversations about any kind of violent behavior I had experienced or witnessed. I really don't believe that CR is innocent, but I can't totally rule out that he doesn't actually remember the moments when the crimes were committed although I also believe that he knows he committed them even if he doesn't remember doing it. I could be way off with my beliefs, but I'm basing my beliefs on my own experiences. No, I never killed anyone, but under slightly different circumstances I can't swear that I never would have. MOO

ETA: That has to be one of the worst run-on sentences I've ever written!
 
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I've always thought somebody had to see something. Even if they didn't notice while she was missing I would think they would be trying to remember things now. What didn't seem important to them before may be significant to them now. Does anyone now if LE has been interviewing people since the arrest?
Hind sight is so very 20/20. I've done this many times, not thought something was wrong or off. Then after the fact your gut starts putting puzzle pieces together. Those scary ah ha! moments....
 
Map Alert! MOO

LE said during the searches that pig farm was the location of MT's last digital signal. Could that comment have been referencing her Fitbit solely, which possibly ended up only a mile away at the cornfield?

LE's original map haunts me. The lower dot near 430th and 200 I've assumed was a digital signal happening on the way south from the upper red dot at 385 and 200. But why was LE interested in the TA truck stop? If solely for cameras, then why not the Pilot?

If you (and CR) look on google map, from the cornfield back to dairy farm, there are a few options for him to drive, most of which are highways/interstate. If he doesn't have a license, and just committed murder, wouldn't he maybe want to take a less traveled route? If he pulled up a google map, he'd see there are only two roads that go through to V18, which is the road he'd need to go north past TA truck stop and to 400th St where he lives. One is 460th, but the other is 430th.

I'm starting to wonder if the last Fitbit signal they got was near the cornfield, but they got cell hits near 430th and 200, and another near the TA truck stop. His route home, while in possession of her phone. (Each location is exactly 8 minutes apart, btw. I don't know how cell signals work, so that might not matter.)

Anyway, if he left cornfield at 8:28 and went straight home, that would put her cell ping at the TA somewhere around maybe 8:40 - 8:45 (give or take), but if he used time after 8:28 to cover her with corn leaves, maybe clean up somewhere, that would put him there later. Maybe he went through the car wash (Another ping perhaps? Do we know for sure the car wash was on there only because of the cameras? Not sure he would do this.) LE's original time frame was 5-10pm.

Maybe CR gets home around 9:45pm and shuts off the phone before another signal is picked up. LE asked LC if MT was in a house around 9:45pm because the trail went cold at that time?

We know for a fact CR uses google maps, so I highly suspect he used one to get home that night.

Does any of this make sense? Don't hate me for complicating things. :(
I don't think he's the type to 'just pull up Google maps', especially under the circumstances you describe. He would be in 'major league panic' mode. Although, it seems he did when giving his statement to LE.
 
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I've always thought somebody had to see something. Even if they didn't notice while she was missing I would think they would be trying to remember things now. What didn't seem important to them before may be significant to them now. Does anyone now if LE has been interviewing people since the arrest?



It’s their only Job to be deep in the interview and fact finding process. They will be defining exactly what witnesses know and investigate every single fact they are told. I’m very impressed with the composure and intelligence of LE. They had the timeline and put everything to good use.

The only place they may have slipped is the time they had the video. But even that sadly wouldn’t have helped her. The process of a trial is going to be extremely painful for everyone who lived Mollie. And for all of us who didn’t know her at all.

The year I graduated high school a friend of mine was murdered in a somewhat similar abduction DAWN SWAN MAGYAR was like Mollie.

A gentle sweet woman with a baby. She was blonde and looked like an angel who had started nursing school 3 months prior. She had everything going going for her.

Kid napped raped and shot, it was over 25 years before her murderer was found tried and convicted. Dawns friends sent the female DA and the cold case detectives a certificate for the best dinner we could find. They were in tears when theygot it and the letters we each included. Dawn was beautiful, and good loving person. Like Mollie , she didn’t do a thing to deserve being shot execution style in a thick woods.

It was a series of things they put together from interviews and a heck of hard work and commitment. A detective is a special kind of cop.

Godspeed to every one of them.
 
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I dug around a little and found this article that references body posing and organized v. disorganized killers. Serial killers have to have a first victim ... I wonder off and on where CR would fit on the serial killer profile spectrum, if at all. MOO

Serial Killers: Modus Operandi, Signature, Staging & Posing
I am convinced more than ever that Rivera is a combination of a disorganized and organized killer. He left the body where it was yet attempted to hide it, he planned carefully but was careless in other ways. He seems to have become enraged and attacked in a frenzy, as if spontaneous, yet evidence shows that he planned and it was premeditated . There are so many things that point to this. If he is a serial killer, then it would appear that this was his first kill. No way of knowing for sure now, but he may have perfected his skills over a period of time. Jmo
 
NOT ONE WORD OF THIS IS INTENDED TO BE, sound or reflect any racial bias whatsoever.

I think cultural aspects come into this. Latino men bare proud and macho. Confessing he did such a terrible thing might make him feel these emotions. I took control and taught her a lesson when she threatened me

However it was quite the opposite when it came to details of the probable assault and murder. He was embarrassed by this and came up with “ I blocked it out” to minimize his embarrassment to LE

That (embarrassment), or he's aware that committing a 'forcible felony' (rape) along with her death upgrades the charge to 1st degree murder. He may not plead until the forensics are finished and if they don't have evidence of a rape, his new lawyers may try to get the charge down to 2nd degree. I believe he did rape her, and that was the intention from the beginning, guess we'll have to wait and see what other evidence they can determine.
 
It’s their only Job to be deep in the interview and fact finding process. They will be defining exactly what witnesses know and investigate every single fact they are told. I’m very impressed with the composure and intelligence of LE. They had the timeline and put everything to good use.

The only place they may have slipped is the time they had the video. But even that sadly wouldn’t have helped her. The process of a trial is going to be extremely painful for everyone who lived Mollie. And for all of us who didn’t know her at all.

The year I graduated high school a friend of mine was murdered in a somewhat similar abduction DAWN SWAN MAGYAR was like Mollie.

A gentle sweet woman with a baby. She was blonde and looked like an angel who had started nursing school 3 months prior. She had everything going going for her.

Kid napped raped and shot, it was over 25 years before her murderer was found tried and convicted. Dawns friends sent the female DA and the cold case detectives a certificate for the best dinner we could find. They were in tears when theygot it and the letters we each included. Dawn was beautiful, and good loving person. Like Mollie , she didn’t do a thing to deserve being shot execution style in a thick woods.

It was a series of things they put together from interviews and a heck of hard work and commitment. A detective is a special kind of cop.

Godspeed to every one of them.

Great post, thanks for sharing! I totally agree, sometimes the general public can be overly critical of LE but it’s sure not an easy job. If they don’t get kudos from time to time from citizens they’re surely not getting any from convicts and criminals. Your comments reminded me of something Mollie’s dad said.

“..Rob Tibbetts has said law enforcement took the case personally. At the service, he recalled one veteran investigator who said he was trained to be dispassionate and unemotional. But as he learned more about Mollie, he “fell in love with her,” making him a better father, husband and detective, Tibbetts said...”
'Today, we need to turn the page. We're at the end of a long ordeal,' Rob Tibbetts tells crowd at daughter's funeral
 
I am convinced more than ever that Rivera is a combination of a disorganized and organized killer. He left the body where it was yet attempted to hide it, he planned carefully but was careless in other ways. He seems to have become enraged and attacked in a frenzy, as if spontaneous, yet evidence shows that he planned and it was premeditated . There are so many things that point to this. If he is a serial killer, then it would appear that this was his first kill. No way of knowing for sure now, but he may have perfected his skills over a period of time. Jmo

It will be very interesting to see if LE could see where he drove around based on his phone since he used it to find here he left Mollie.

I was also wondering if he’s trying to make appear to be a crime of passion, stabbing is up close and personal, it he did say for some reason he was just drawn to her, how many more has he just been drawn to?

Also maybe she was left face up because he was sitting on top of her when he inflicted the wounds, he wanted her to watch, to show her who the boss is, to punish her for not wanting him.

He only covered her up with corn stalks to hide her body, not like other crimes of passion where they cover the victim out of “love or caring” for that person.
 
That (embarrassment), or he's aware that committing a 'forcible felony' (rape) along with her death upgrades the charge to 1st degree murder. He may not plead until the forensics are finished and if they don't have evidence of a rape, his new lawyers may try to get the charge down to 2nd degree. I believe he did rape her, and that was the intention from the beginning, guess we'll have to wait and see what other evidence they can determine.

I think that kidnapping is a predicate felony that also raises this to Murder One. And he did kidnap her, or at least he may have killed her in the attempt. I wonder if theft of her iPhone would meet the bar?

Edit: Apparently, it has to be a forceable felony. I think that felony assault and battery might also reach the bar.
 
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That (embarrassment), or he's aware that committing a 'forcible felony' (rape) along with her death upgrades the charge to 1st degree murder. He may not plead until the forensics are finished and if they don't have evidence of a rape, his new lawyers may try to get the charge down to 2nd degree. I believe he did rape her, and that was the intention from the beginning, guess we'll have to wait and see what other evidence they can determine.

I’ve posted this several times already so I’m not going to dig up the links again but if you look up the specific section under which CR was charged with first degree murder on the arrest warrant, it involves premeditation, not forcible felony.
 
Or maybe not ask for anything at all.

That's why I'm curious about any payments made to these lawyers. JMO

I can only speak for myself but this may be instructive: The only thing I require to take a case is a signed engagement letter. The engagement letter will spell out the terms of my representation. The terms are completely up to me within the rules of professional ethics and my state's rules on professional responsibility. For some clients, I don't ask for a retainer and I bill monthly or periodically for work performed on their behalf. These are mostly regular clients who seek my advice on a variety of issues and I am comfortable with their finances where I don't worry about getting paid. Not all lawyers will do that but I have never had a problem (knock on wood). For new clients with significant disputes, I ask for a $5,000 retainer. For imminent or current federal court litigation I ask for a $20,000 retainer. Once you appear in Court on behalf of a client it is difficult to withdraw and there are professional responsibilities to the Court so I need to know my client is prepared for the long haul and I'm going to get paid.

I have taken cases completely pro bono where I have covered all costs and fees. I have taken cases because it looked interesting, it was a new area of law, or I thought it would add something to my resume (to be honest) where I waived my hourly rate but the client covered any costs we incurred. That's as close as "for publicity" as I get, but I know many lawyers seek out and take cases for publicity. I have taken cases at reduced rates at my discretion as well. There are certain situations where I am interested in pushing the area of law in a certain direction so for academic reasons I look for those types of cases and will waive my fees or offer a discounted rate. I have taken cases pro bono because I thought the other side was being a bully and I was sick of seeing them troll people.

So there are many different ways you can take a case. Probably not helpful at all unless you were wondering about attorneys fees.
 
I was just responding to her post saying that a person isn't going to (or likely to, I don't remember which) block out a violent crime if they were just a witness to it. I know that for most of my life I had a tendency to even block out conversations about any kind of violent behavior I had experienced or witnessed. I really don't believe that CR is innocent, but I can't totally rule out that he doesn't actually remember the moments when the crimes were committed although I also believe that he knows he committed them even if he doesn't remember doing it. I could be way off with my beliefs, but I'm basing my beliefs on my own experiences. No, I never killed anyone, but under slightly different circumstances I can't swear that I never would have. MOO

ETA: That has to be one of the worst run-on sentences I've ever written!
Yeah, stop confusing us!! JK ....I think I know what you are saying. I honestly think the blackout or block out ( that sounds so weird) Rivera is referring to is when, in response to a traumatic event, your mind subconsciously "blocks out" the event. This is what I think Rivera is referring to when he says he does it after an event that upsets him or angers him. ( Not the same as a bad thing that happened and over time it becomes lost) NOTE, the term traumatic event is the word I am using, I am not quoting what he said. A couple threads ago I used the term and it set of a flurry of " who said that!", "was that in the affidavit?", causing some confusion. That being said, I think he learned about that somewhere and may have even planned all along to say it. However, after being interviewed by LE, realizing how much they knew and how much evidence they had, placed it in his story for convenience. Now what I would really like to do is try to figure out what, how and when, and put together a likely scenario of the order of events. Some posters have had some really well thought out ideas!! There must be others who want to do this too!!
 
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