IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #40

[Karmakazi]

My point is that it has been done and had disastrous outcomes. Surely attorneys learn from the past mistakes made in high profile case.

I think it depends on how ludicrous of a theory the defense paints. There is always a gray area, but I would be willing to bet that many murder trials involve the defense introducing an alternate theory in order to place reasonable doubt in a juror’s mind. I was a juror on a murder 1 trial and I specifically remember the defense presenting such theory. I don’t remember the defense’s alternate theory to be necessarily ludicrous, just highly implausible. However, it just takes 1 juror to convince.....

 

[MsBetsy]

I dug around a little and found this article that references body posing and organized v. disorganized killers. Serial killers have to have a first victim ... I wonder off and on where CR would fit on the serial killer profile spectrum, if at all. MOO

Serial Killers: Modus Operandi, Signature, Staging & Posing

This was interesting as well, but talked more about posing and the reasons for it. The concept of leaving the victim on her back ( or not) is different, according to the two articles I read and compared. The sexually motivated killer apparently has a rush of guilt and shame, ( according to the freaky article, not this one) and cannot stand the eyes looking at him. He will turn the body OR cover her eyes, and as soon as he does so feels justified, and the guilt goes away. For those who find this topic boring, sorry I went on about it! Im going to stop now.

 

[Warwick7]

https://www.quora.com/Can-you-track-a-Samsung-phone-with-out-a-sim-card-and-no-battery

So it seems you can track a cell (for a few seconds) without a battery.

 

[MsBetsy]

Body lying face up to me suggests sexual assault, killed, left for dead.

Found it in the article, thanks.

 

[MsBetsy]

Face up really proves nothing as the same could be said for face down.

True, but I still find the concept of the eyes staring at him causing a rush of shame believable. I think some people just don't care what the " reasons" may be. That's fine too!

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe not if the other guy was the violent one and CR was the one who liked to watch/look. Everybody keeps saying that you can't believe anything he says, so why believe that he's the one who approached her or anything else? Would being afraid of getting locked up with the other guy be enough to keep him from mentioning him? I don't believe this is true either, still trying to show ways they could show reasonable doubt. Not that it would matter much in this scenario, I believe he'd be considered just as guilty if he was driving and assisted in any way. MOO

I hear you. I haven't really put all that much thought into it because I believe he acted alone, so I was kind of joking about them arguing, imagining two completely opposite types of killers never getting anywhere because they wouldn't agree on anything.

 

[TL4S]

Body lying face up to me suggests sexual assault, killed, left for dead.

I've wondered the same.

 

[Hatfield]

Wow, I almost missed this, as I was about to go to bed! So freaky! Even the fluorescent purple with black background. I think this sounds very much like the " anger retaliation killer." Although it did say the victim is usually turned on side or back, it also said, if left on her back, he will cover her eyes, which we know he did with the cornstalks. The most interesting detail that jumped out at me was the fact that " The anger retaliation killer NEEDS A SPECIFIC EVENT WITH EACH VICTIM AS A SPUR TO THE ATTACK EVEN IF HE HAS SET IT UP CONSCIOUSLY. I would have put that in bold but I dont know how. Anyway, pretty close to what occurred, if at all true, that the fact that the victim threatened to call police is what angered him and sent him into a violent rage. Also interesting how it describes a knife or sharp object as a sexual tool and the carelessness about cleaning up afterwards. If this is true about Rivera, there must be plenty of evidence for LE to find. JMO

All JMO
I thought that was real interesting too and I have been wondering for quite some time now if what made him kill was his internal rage against his Ex because of the recent break up. His rage could have been building about the breakup and he may have taken out his rage on an innocent subsitute just like the article describes under the The Anger-Driven Offender and Anger-Retaliation Victim Profile sections.
It will be interesting if he ever admits to rage about the breakup with the Ex having anything to do with this.

"most anger-retaliatory killers tend not to attack their primary source of frustration. Most will pick substitutes as stand-ins for the source of their homicidal rage"

"Killers like these usually choose their victim for her convince, she either lives or works in the area near where he lives, works, or travels, and he has ample opportunity to attack her. The killer next considers the age, vulnerability, attitude and accessibility to the victim based on a prototypical target type he has fantasized about and may have already pre-selected from a pool of available victims."

"Even if the signature killer drives to the crime scene with his victim, he often approaches the last 200 feet on foot because he drives he own frenzy with each footfalls, physically stalking and hunting his prey and confronting her face-to-face."

"The anger retaliation killer needs a specific event with each victim as a spur to the attack even if he has set it up consciously."

"retaliatory killers like the power assertive approach- a quick blow to the face or to the head immediately fueled by rage, many times his emotions are running so high at the point of attack that he can't even perform sexually, making him even angrier and more violent and resulting in an incomplete sexual assault."

Signature Killers

 

[TL4S]

Would a well applied tire iron turn it off? A mylar potato chip bag will block the signal, and do the same if you know this hack.

Speaking of tire irons, from the moment of announced COD, I've pictured the chisled end of one.

 

[MsBetsy]

All JMO
I thought that was real interesting too and I have been wondering for quite some time now if what made him kill was his internal rage against his Ex because of the recent break up. His rage could have been building about the breakup and he may have taken out his rage on an innocent subsitute just like the article describes under the The Anger-Driven Offender and Anger-Retaliation Victim Profile sections.
It will be interesting if he ever admits to rage about the breakup with the Ex having anything to do with this.

"most anger-retaliatory killers tend not to attack their primary source of frustration. Most will pick substitutes as stand-ins for the source of their homicidal rage"

"Killers like these usually choose their victim for her convince, she either lives or works in the area near where he lives, works, or travels, and he has ample opportunity to attack her. The killer next considers the age, vulnerability, attitude and accessibility to the victim based on a prototypical target type he has fantasized about and may have already pre-selected from a pool of available victims."

"Even if the signature killer drives to the crime scene with his victim, he often approaches the last 200 feet on foot because he drives he own frenzy with each footfalls, physically stalking and hunting his prey and confronting her face-to-face."

"The anger retaliation killer needs a specific event with each victim as a spur to the attack even if he has set it up consciously."

"retaliatory killers like the power assertive approach- a quick blow to the face or to the head immediately fueled by rage, many times his emotions are running so high at the point of attack that he can't even perform sexually, making him even angrier and more violent and resulting in an incomplete sexual assault."

Signature Killers

Yes!!! So glad you posted all that, it would have taken me all night. Just about all of it " fits." That bit about the approaching on foot... Maybe he DID get out and jog with her. Remember LE s statement, " HE CHASED HER DOWN." You may be right about the girlfriend, he described the day he met her as the best day of his life. ( on FB) Also of interest is the relationship with the mother. I wish we knew more about that. But it is interesting that we heard from the father and no mention of his mother.

 

[MsBetsy]

I've wondered the same.

And as someone said if he carried her in the firefighters lift, sorry can't remember what exactly it's called, but that would have just been the way she landed if he just kind of dropped her down from his shoulders. I honestly don't think he posed her. It would have been much more obvious. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

All JMO
I thought that was real interesting too and I have been wondering for quite some time now if what made him kill was his internal rage against his Ex because of the recent break up. His rage could have been building about the breakup and he may have taken out his rage on an innocent subsitute just like the article describes under the The Anger-Driven Offender and Anger-Retaliation Victim Profile sections.
It will be interesting if he ever admits to rage about the breakup with the Ex having anything to do with this.

"most anger-retaliatory killers tend not to attack their primary source of frustration. Most will pick substitutes as stand-ins for the source of their homicidal rage"

"Killers like these usually choose their victim for her convince, she either lives or works in the area near where he lives, works, or travels, and he has ample opportunity to attack her. The killer next considers the age, vulnerability, attitude and accessibility to the victim based on a prototypical target type he has fantasized about and may have already pre-selected from a pool of available victims."

"Even if the signature killer drives to the crime scene with his victim, he often approaches the last 200 feet on foot because he drives he own frenzy with each footfalls, physically stalking and hunting his prey and confronting her face-to-face."

"The anger retaliation killer needs a specific event with each victim as a spur to the attack even if he has set it up consciously."

"retaliatory killers like the power assertive approach- a quick blow to the face or to the head immediately fueled by rage, many times his emotions are running so high at the point of attack that he can't even perform sexually, making him even angrier and more violent and resulting in an incomplete sexual assault."

Signature Killers

Wasn't that fluorescent purple really cool the way it turned to blue as you scrolled... it made me jump back from the screen when I opened it!

 

[Hatfield]

Wasn't that fluorescent purple really cool the way it turned to blue as you scrolled... it made me jump back from the screen when I opened it!

Yes. I had to increase the size a lot because it was a wild color pattern. When you stare at it a long time it kind of hypnotises you. LOL

 

[TL4S]

All JMO
I thought that was real interesting too and I have been wondering for quite some time now if what made him kill was his internal rage against his Ex because of the recent break up. His rage could have been building about the breakup and he may have taken out his rage on an innocent subsitute just like the article describes under the The Anger-Driven Offender and Anger-Retaliation Victim Profile sections.
It will be interesting if he ever admits to rage about the breakup with the Ex having anything to do with this.

"most anger-retaliatory killers tend not to attack their primary source of frustration. Most will pick substitutes as stand-ins for the source of their homicidal rage"

"Killers like these usually choose their victim for her convince, she either lives or works in the area near where he lives, works, or travels, and he has ample opportunity to attack her. The killer next considers the age, vulnerability, attitude and accessibility to the victim based on a prototypical target type he has fantasized about and may have already pre-selected from a pool of available victims."

"Even if the signature killer drives to the crime scene with his victim, he often approaches the last 200 feet on foot because he drives he own frenzy with each footfalls, physically stalking and hunting his prey and confronting her face-to-face."

"The anger retaliation killer needs a specific event with each victim as a spur to the attack even if he has set it up consciously."

"retaliatory killers like the power assertive approach- a quick blow to the face or to the head immediately fueled by rage, many times his emotions are running so high at the point of attack that he can't even perform sexually, making him even angrier and more violent and resulting in an incomplete sexual assault."

Signature Killers

Wow! That's scarily accurate to what we know of CR and the crime.

Another poster suggested the COD could be via sexual assault (I took that meaning SA directly using a sharp object). If his rage was exacerbated by sexual disfunction in the moment, then those two things could be related, and both fit that description. I also feel (if you go by CR's story) that it wasn't the threat of police getting called that triggered the initial attack, so much as CR's ego getting smashed by her obvious fear of him...like he's some kind of monster.

 

[TL4S]

And as someone said if he carried her in the firefighters lift, sorry can't remember what exactly it's called, but that would have just been the way she landed if he just kind of dropped her down from his shoulders. I honestly don't think he posed her. It would have been much more obvious. Jmo

That was me, too. Lol But still, if he brought it up voluntarily, it would maybe hold more significance.

 

[MsBetsy]

Wow! That's scarily accurate to what we know of CR and the crime.

I had entertained at one point how rage could have been ecacerbated by lack of sexual ability in the moment. And another poster suggested the COD was via sexual assault (I took that meaning SA directly using a sharp object). Those could be related, and both fit that description. I also feel (if you go by CR's story) that it wasn't the threat of police getting called that triggered the initial attack, so much as CR's ego getting smashed by her obvious fear of him...like he's some kind of monster.

Right. He said that her threat to call the police angered him. He was angry because she dared to threaten him. He specifically used that word. (Angry) That's the event that set him off, in my opinion. According to the article, he NEEDED an event to spur him into action, even if he had a conscious plan to assault and kill her. The running after her and chasing her down would be part of the thrill. He quickly knocks her out, just like the article describes. There is a reason for everything he does. Jmo... all based on how this type of killer operates, according to above article. Not saying it as fact.

 

[MsBetsy]

That was me, too. Lol But still, if he brought it up voluntarily, it would maybe hold more significance.

You lost me. Brought what up voluntarily? Oh i think you may be talking about his statement about being angry? I thought you were talking about the body , or maybe you are, my eyes keep closing, I can barely stay awake

 

[MsBetsy]

Nope!
Man fired for using potato chip bag to skip work for two years

What a riot!!!

 

[Seattle1]

Shouldn't some of that reward money go to the person that provided the security camera footage? It appears they would have never found her other wise without that footage.

I think the thing that bothers me more though is it says some people are asking for their donations to it to be returned to them. I mean if I made a donation for this I would never ask for it back at the least it should go to the family.

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing things by agreement. It's not like they changed their mind and are pulling the rug. Every donor signed a donation agreement, and returning the funds was one of the options. Be reminded this reward was drafted as a reward for Mollie's safe return, and donors were willing to put forth an incentive to safely return Mollie home. Donation agreement is also uploaded in Media thread. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Just realised it's after 4:00. Thought it was around one. Goodnight all.