IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[CuriousCricket]

This may or may not be a reaction to Mollie’s case: I still have women walking and jogging solo past my house every night - but several of them now have dogs.

That's one possibility. I bet other families will come up with other safety measures during the next few months. Let's hope we learn how to keep people safer.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Are you seriously defending a killer? Who stalked and deliberately attacked a young woman, because she didn't want to talk to him?

How else would you portray a killer? If that is not "entitlement mentality", what is?

No, I’m saying even if you were qualified to diagnose the guy you’d need a lot more than what you read in the arrest affidavit to do so.

 

[TL4S]

Are you seriously defending a killer? Who stalked and deliberately attacked a young woman, because she didn't want to talk to him?

How else would you portray a killer? If that is not "entitlement mentality", what is?

I have yet to see one person on this forum defend CR for what he did, and I'm tired of seeing others being accused of doing just that simply because they have a differing opinion. A number of people seem to think because a statement is made outside the popular vote, that gives them right to be rude and condescending. All this talk about "entitlement"...

 

[otto]

FWIW, when I refer to the willingness of others to see things through the lens of Mollie's killer and I refer to the the remark about a lifestyle-threatening event from his perspective, I mean this, and only this, with no add on about "excusing" him:

I do not embrace the idea that anyone concerned with keeping LE away then engages in behavior that risks drawing attention from LE - like trolling and following a jogger, and then having the audacity to get out of this car (his story) and run after her. I believe this behavior is that of a predator utterly unconcerned with getting caught or being outed as lying and being here illegally. I also believe that his reasons for following her were the reasons of any predator - to find and gain control of prey that the predator is going to end up harming for his own selfish gain. Also, I do not subscribe to any theory that all predators look or present a certain way or that we can see them coming, or that they all plot their crimes. They are by nature opportunistic, however smart or stupid they may be in the commission of their crimes.

I also think that in regard to this person, in some cases and across a number of platforms, understanding why he did what so many like him do has entered the arena of a lean toward sympathetic consideration of his background, language history, cultural shortcomings and other factors that we don't even know pose obstacles for him. We spent a lot of time on whether or not a translator in his interrogation and two more translators in court were enough for him to understand what's happening to him and why.

Sometimes people don't need a reason to kill the person that's found dead other than, as Otto said, it's what's gratifying to the killer. To that extent, I don't think Mollie's alleged 'threat' to contact police was his issue - other than it potentially interfered with ability to carry out his mission, should he be interrupted. So he likely swiftly incapacitated her, took her, and the rest is whatever investigators can piece together, because he's never going to give that up. To me that doesn't make him a clinical study, it simply makes him a reprehensible violent coward who wanted both his victim and the shroud of secrecy. JMO

This seems to be the decision tree associated with abduction / murder. Predators are concerned about being caught, but the balance is weighed in terms of whether anything contradicts acting, as opposed to whether there is a reason to act. That is, they plan the event and, at the moment of acting, they have a checklist regarding whether they should delay the decision.



http://investigativepsych.com/Victim Target Networks Dr Godwin.pdf

 

[CuriousCricket]

I think he thought that by the time the body was found, there would not be much left. In terms of evidence. If he had not been caught ( by way of the car, which did seem to be pretty lucky) it may have been impossible to link him to the crime. The spot he chose was secluded, they even searched near there and didn't find a thing. I think he knew that, and at the time thought it was the perfect spot. If this was his first kill, it's not surprising to me that he did not have a better plan.

I've been thinking that corn field was a perfect solution, so I'm surprised to hear that others don't. Those vast cornfields are separated with little lanes straight in off the road. You can pull your vehicle back, out-of-sight. In the dark, no one on the planet will know you're there. Unless it's a make-out or party place, the isolated little lane is a perfect disposal place. Pile up a few stalks of corn to camouflage what you've left and let nature take its course. Heavy machinery works the fields, not farmers with a plow and a couple of mules. . . .

The only thing I see is that predators will now be very wary about possible cameras and know not to circle. Had CR just passed by her one time, he would have been home free.

 

[Crystal Regan]

Are there really more hormones in the water supply? I've always said that the reason people are so weird ( where I live) is that there must be something in the water.

I know that excess Iron in well water is now being linked to cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, Huntington’s, ALS and Parkinson’s. It wouldn’t surprise me to find out city water has hormones in it.

 

[Jeng1810]

There's causation, and correlation. When something happens to someone who is deported to a native country, that does not mean that the deportation is the cause or whatever happened.

I have travelled in Mexico many times, and not just in the beach zones. I'm still alive, so apparently it's quite possible to spend time in Mexico and live to tell of it. I think people who speak Spanish and understand the culture will find it easier to survive than I did.

I doubt that the suspect wanted to uproot his life and move to Mexico. I also think it's really farfetched to suggest that moving to Mexico means a death sentence.

I have even taken my kids while traveling outside of “tourist Mexico” and we all survived. Far different than the states but nothing to “fear going back there”. IMO his status here had nothing to do with the crime.

 

[CuriousCricket]

In Iowa, considering the sentence for 1st degree murder is life without parole, no earlier eligibility whatsoever, is it common for the State to add lesser charges?

How about as back up in case something gets thrown out on appeal? If someone has been convicted of several crimes, isn't it possible a sentence for one of the lesser crimes might keep him off the streets through a new trial? Just thinking out-loud . . .

 

[MsBetsy]

I know that excess Iron in well water is now being linked to cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, Huntington’s, ALS and Parkinson’s. It wouldn’t surprise me to find out city water has hormones in it.

Never drinking it again. But what about boiling it?

 

[kpm]

I have even taken my kids while traveling outside of “tourist Mexico” and we all survived. Far different than the states but nothing to “fear going back there”. IMO his status here had nothing to do with the crime.

Exactly

IMO, he didn’t fear deportation

His family and friends said he was in school there and played soccer, his family has a home there and according to his dad, if he had killed Mollie he would have just come home.

He came here to make money and send it home, there is no mention that he fled because of gangs, violence or drugs according to his own family.

 

[otto]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant but as usual you said it better. Guess the point I was trying to make also was that there doesn't have to be sex involved at all. Jmo

Thought I posted this earlier, but it looks like it's just sitting her in the post box. Rape has nothing to do with sex. Mollie may have been raped, maybe not. The arrest warrant states that she was identified by the clothing found with or near her (don't remember exact words anymore), which is different than being identified by what she was wearing. I think we can assume that some or all of her clothing were removed.

We know that she received multiple sharp object injuries. It's equally possible that the assault started with those injuries, that the assault ended with those injuries, and that the injuries were inflicted throughout what may have been a 30 minute attack.

 

[MsBetsy]

True anything is possible but I don't think it's a sound probability. Imo

I am trying very hard to remember another case with these same circumstances that involved a young woman as the victim and where the male suspect was also young where the motive for the abduction didn't involve a sexual assault motive.

At that the moment I am drawing a blank. Of course there are thrill killers who murder because the act of killing IS the thrill...motive.

It's well known when stranger abductions happen to young children and young minors the motive almost always for the kidnapping was solely to rape the child of either gender..then murder them. The stats state the victim is usually murdered within 45 minutes after the abduction. I think this would also hold true in adult victims as well.

Mollie may have seen him but imo he wasn't even one of her acquaintances and He only knew her from afar. I consider him being a stranger abductor.

Now here we have a suspect who was known to contact young women even though they weren't interested yet that didn't seem to matter to CR..he harassed them anyway.

While young guys certainly flirt trying to hook up with willing females...
I don't think they circle them obsessively. That reminds me more of vultures circling for their prey until they spot one.

I 100 percent firmly believe this case will also have a sexual assault motive.. he knew beforehand once he had abducted and raped her ..he would have to kill her.
And that is why Mollie is dead.

Imo

Thanks. All good points. I feel the motive is SA as well. We may never know.

 

[kpm]

Thought I posted this earlier, but it looks like it's just sitting her in the post box. Rape has nothing to do with sex. Mollie may have been raped, maybe not. The arrest warrant states that she was identified by the clothing found with or near her (don't remember exact words anymore), which is different than being identified by what she was wearing. I think we can assume that some or all of her clothing were removed.

We know that she received multiple sharp object injuries. It's equally possible that the assault started with those injuries, that the assault ended with those injuries, and that the injuries were inflicted throughout what may have been a 30 minute attack.

I wonder if LE took him to the abduction site

We have not seen any searches there have we?

I would suspect they would want to go over that area as well

 

[jillycat]

This seems to be the decision tree associated with abduction / murder. Predators are concerned about being caught, but the balance is weighed in terms of whether anything contradicts acting, as opposed to whether there is a reason to act. That is, they plan the event and, at the moment of acting, they have a checklist regarding whether they should delay the decision.

(snipped...)

Yes, I agree that they're concerned about getting caught and weigh risks. In Mollie's case, I believe that's why she was abducted from that area...he was not as likely to be caught. But because in Mollie's case he could be relatively sure she was sufficiently isolated, I don't think fear of police showing up and arresting him or deporting him was on his screen of concern. I think his mission was to get her and other variables were already weighed, and he was on a 'schedule' because waiting longer would increase the risk.

What you're saying and the graphic you posted reminds me of wing suit flying. Haven't done it but follow a climber who wing suits and talks a lot about risks and fear and managing them, and making decisions about whether or not to jump. She said barring obvious dangers and obstacles like major weather that make you stay home altogether that day, you hike up, suit up and go to the edge and do a final assessment and if it just doesn't check and balance, you don't jump, you go back down the mountain. I think any potentially risky activity is that way and it's either "not today", which may have been his decision numerous times previously, or, "3-2-1 jump". A final decision has to be made in the moment because that moment is all you have if you are going to act. I believe that he assessed that evening and his timing as golden and he made a swift and exacting decision to 'jump'.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Exactly

IMO, he didn’t fear deportation

His family and friends said he was in school there and played soccer, his family has a home there and according to his dad, if he had killed Mollie he would have just come home.

He came here to make money and send it home, there is no mention that he fled because of gangs, violence or drugs according to his own family.

Here’s the bottom line - you’re not going to be able to get in this guy’s head and know what he was thinking because your mind (hopefully) doesn’t go there.

 

[otto]

I wonder if LE took him to the abduction site

We have not seen any searches there have we?

I would suspect they would want to go over that area as well

I would think that police asked the suspect to take him on the route that he remembers. He remembers everything up to the abduction, so that part would be easy. There must have been searches at that location. Then he has the memory lapse, but he's able to use his phone to identify the location where he left her body. My guess is that investigators asked him to guide them to that location from the abduction site using his phone maps if necessary.

 

[cody22]

Here’s the bottom line - you’re not going to be able to get in this guy’s head and know what he was thinking because your mind (hopefully) doesn’t go there.

Now that is a good sensible post.

 

[MyBelle]

There's causation, and correlation. When something happens to someone who is deported to a native country, that does not mean that the deportation is the cause or whatever happened.

I have travelled in Mexico many times, and not just in the beach zones. I'm still alive, so apparently it's quite possible to spend time in Mexico and live to tell of it. I think people who speak Spanish and understand the culture will find it easier to survive than I did.

I doubt that the suspect wanted to uproot his life and move to Mexico. I also think it's really farfetched to suggest that moving to Mexico means a death sentence.

Where did I suggest moving to Mexico means a death sentence? I said those deported were being targeted. And it is fact. Nothing farfetched about it.
'We own this place': Gangs prey on deportees along the U.S.-Mexico border | Mexico | Dallas News

 

[otto]

(snipped...)

Yes, I agree that they're concerned about getting caught and weigh risks. In Mollie's case, I believe that's why she was abducted from that area...he was not as likely to be caught. But because in Mollie's case he could be relatively sure she was sufficiently isolated, I don't think fear of police showing up and arresting him or deporting him was on his screen of concern. I think his mission was to get her and other variables were already weighed, and he was on a 'schedule' because waiting longer would increase the risk.

What you're saying and the graphic you posted reminds me of wing suit flying. Haven't done it but follow a climber who wing suits and talks a lot about risks and fear and managing them, and making decisions about whether or not to jump. She said barring obvious dangers and obstacles like major weather that make you stay home altogether that day, you hike up, suit up and go to the edge and do a final assessment and if it just doesn't check and balance, you don't jump, you go back down the mountain. I think any potentially risky activity is that way and it's either "not today", which may have been his decision numerous times previously, or, "3-2-1 jump". A final decision has to be made in the moment because that moment is all you have if you are going to act. I believe that he assessed that evening and his timing as golden and he made a swift and exacting decision to 'jump'.

That's my impression as well, especially in light of the fact that police mentioned that he had "previously" seen Mollie jogging. What that suggests to me is that this may not have been the first time that he planned to abduct Mollie, but this was the first time that everything lined up such that he believed his risks were managed. The only factor that he overlooked was the distant CCTV footage that captured part of his uniquely detailed car.

 

[Seattle1]

After arrest of undocumented immigrant in Mollie Tibbetts case, Iowa town tries to escape the inescapable: politics
By Katie Mettler
September 1

SNIP
Then, police found Tibbetts’s body discarded in a cornfield. They charged Cristhian Bahena Rivera, a local farmhand, with her murder. And they announced that Rivera, who had no prior criminal history, was an undocumented Mexican immigrant.

What Brooklyn wanted was to mourn, to avoid the politics.

“It was a crime that was committed because of something on the inside,” said Tibbetts’s close friend, Paris Flack, 17, “not because of his skin on the outside.”

But within hours of Rivera’s arrest, the tragedy within this small community became about partisan political division everywhere else.
SNIP
For most people in Brooklyn, though, Rivera’s legal status is a distraction. This time should be about Mollie, they say, not the man accused of killing her. They remain in disbelief that someone they know, who worked on a dairy farm operated by someone else they know, could have killed a young woman whom everyone seemed to know, too.
After arrest of undocumented immigrant in Mollie Tibbetts case, Iowa town tries to escape the inescapable: politics