IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #43

[MistyWaters]

Where it falls apart for me is that CR's uncle worked at Yarrabee and most certainly knew CR's real name. It isn't believable that he was known by one name at work and another by those in town.

Did you watch the video of the farm press conference? Was it known to anyone he used a fake name other than to his employers? In my mind I can imagine a group of Spanish speaking workers just showing up and going home from work without any personal interaction with farm management other than in the morning a brief hello. Assumably done so to check if the crew had arrived. If so, I’d be surprised if there was a reason to ever individually acknowledge each by name.

One thing we don’t know is how much English CR had learned and spoke. However it’s not unusual for some people to use their native language as a barrier to communication if it’s beneficial to a certain situation.

 

[Al Hoffman]

My family uses organic eggs and milk that are locally sourced. No illegals involved. No imports involved.

Good for you, glad you can afford that. I live in the hood. I buy what I can find at the Korean owned store that sells SNAP card pizza (Hunt Brothers pizza - you buy it frozen, then they top and cook it for you) Whole Foods is on the other side of town, another world! Cheep immigrant food feeds the rest of us.

 

[otto]

Don't machines do the milking? There are plenty of family-owned dairies who have no problem hiring American farm workers and paying them a decent wage and benefits.

There are farmers all over the world who hire farmhands, and provide clean, suitable, and managed accommodations on the property. The farm hands are legal employees, they don't live in dilapidated homes, and there's no need for illegal employees.

It seems that the farm industry business model in places like Iowa was developed to include illegal immigrants who accept dilapidated accommodations, low wage, and harsh work schedules as a great alternative to Mexican farms. If there weren't great opportunities in Iowa for illegal immigrants like Rivera, he would still be in Mexico.

 

[otto]

A body placed underneath cornstalks isn’t necessarily protected from animal disturbance.

As well, I notice various media reports have summarized the quote below into a brief “her clothing was found at the crime scene” as if to suggest that was an investigative finding. But the context of the original sentence did not reference any other information beyond the fact her clothing was utilized to ID her body.

“Based on the interview with Rivera, the clothing found at the scene where the body was located and tentative identification by the Medical Examiner based on information about certain articles of her clothing, the deceased female is Mollie Tibbetts.”
http://www.dps.state.ia.us/commis/p...-2018_DCI_ArrestWarrantComplaintAffidavit.pdf

I'm of the opinion that the arrest warrant wording has to be very precise. If the warrant said "the clothing that Mollie was wearing", and the clothes were found with her but not on her, the warrant would be rejected.

The "clothing was found at the scene where the body was located" means exactly that. The clothing was found at the scene. The body was located at the scene. Both the body and the clothing were found at the scene. I'm pretty sure this means that she was not wearing the clothing.

 

[Al Hoffman]

The best gifts they gave me were the bootleg CD mixes you can buy behind the counter for $5.00. At select stores only.

The famed Botique Chez Hood...only the finest! Sometimes out of the back of a van!

 

[MyBelle]

At the onset LE spoke about CRs immigration status so I’d be certain his records were already investigated and turned over. Several media reports indicated the farm was cooperative. If required for a court case, documents would’ve been legally subpoenaed, rather than viewed or collected during a visit such as this.

This is possibly a where-there’s-smoke- there’s-fire type visit. Whether there is or not....

I have no idea what court case you are talking about but it is common knowledge that HS/ICE have been conducting AUDITS of employer records. I think this investigation of the dairy farm started the moment CR was arrested.

After receiving the NOIs, employers are required to produce their company’s I-9s within three business days, after which ICE will conduct an inspection for compliance. If employers are not in compliance with the law, an I-9 inspection of their business will likely result in civil fines and could lay the groundwork for criminal prosecution if they are knowingly violating the law. All workers encountered during these investigations who are unauthorized to remain in the United States are subject to administrative arrest and removal from the country.
ICE delivers more than 5,200 I-9 audit notices to businesses across the US in 2-phase nationwide operation

 

[Al Hoffman]

There are farmers all over the world who hire farmhands, and provide clean, suitable, and managed accommodations on the property. The farm hands are legal employees, they don't live in dilapidated homes, and there's no need for illegal employees.

It seems that the farm industry business model in places like Iowa was developed to include illegal immigrants who accept dilapidated accommodations, low wage, and harsh work schedules as a great alternative to Mexican farms. If there weren't great opportunities in Iowa for illegal immigrants like Rivera, he would still be in Mexico.

During WWII, the Federal government brought in immigrants by the 10's of thousands to replace American farm workers who went off to fight the Axis. This set the course of the Agribusiness manual labor force in the US since then, as returning vet farm kids left the hinterland for the big city, and cheap migrant labor replaced them. Yes it is done better elsewhere. We should do the same. The conditions in Iowa arn't great, but they are better than an agrarian worker can hope for, especially since NAFTA crushed the Mexican corn agrabusiness. Our industrialized methods allow the US to sell corn to Mexico cheaper than they can grow it.

 

[otto]

As this is way Off-Topic to this thread, I’m writing this just for general interest sake. It’s not true that Canada subsidizes the dairy industry.

But they do stringently protect it by charging high tariffs (taxes) to minimize US milk products from crossing the border. Why, because of Canada’s system of “supply management” which literally means the supply is managed. In order to produce milk, each dairy producer must own or buy what’s known as a “quota” which is essentially a high cost licence to produce only a specific maximum quantity. Therefore competition within the dairy industry is controlled even within our borders because no producer is able flood the market beyond the established amount of dairy quota. For the same reason the govt isn’t willing to allow imports in to flood the market either, so to minimize free trade the govt slaps on high tariffs resulting in US products becoming more costly than what’s produced locally. I’m neither defending or disagreeing with how it is....

The US farm industry is heavily subsidized.

"The federal government spends more than $20 billion a year on subsidies for farm businesses."

Agricultural Subsidies

If farmers put a little less money in their own pockets, and a little more money in wages, quality of life, accommodation, and formal training in agriculture, the entire industry would benefit. Farmhand positions could be filled by locals, and there would be no jobs for people like Rivera.

 

[Mica]

I assume there were other illegals working on the farm with CR. Why else would they leave the area? Guess the farm used the wrong verification system for them, too. Imo

>>snip

The farm has said that at least a couple of its roughly dozen employees left the area following Rivera's arrest, which sent fear through the immigrant community. The dairy, which has about 800 cows and is owned by a prominent family with Republican Party ties, says it received dozens of angry phone calls and some death threats.

Agents visit dairy farm that employed suspect in Mollie Tibbetts' death

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

I read an article that said the feds are considering requiring Social Security to notify the valid owner every time the number is used for employment purposes. Maybe I'm wrong and it is Congress that is considering making such notification a law.

I'd not hold my breath for that one because Congress passing such a law might threaten to kill off that private-sector profit stream for businesses that offer the "we'll monitor your credit reports for such-and-such activity and alert you when it happens for only $30.00 per month." scheme.

 

[MyBelle]

delete

 

[kpm]

I'm of the opinion that the arrest warrant wording has to be very precise. If the warrant said "the clothing that Mollie was wearing", and the clothes were found with her but not on her, the warrant would be rejected.

The "clothing was found at the scene where the body was located" means exactly that. The clothing was found at the scene. The body was located at the scene. Both the body and the clothing were found at the scene. I'm pretty sure this means that she was not wearing the clothing.

I totally agree

 

[JenniD]

No, it appears that he was first approached somewhere on the Dairy farm. He is currently in custody in the Tama County jail, in Toledo, IA. (and NO, the Feds are NOT holding CR in a lock-up in OHIO). Likely for his safety. I think. MOO

Thanks for clarification

 

[Al Hoffman]

No need to get histrionic. Inmates on work release are supervised and wouldn't be sneaking away to kidnap and murder. The majority aren't incarcerated forever and need to transition to living and working once they are released.

One question: Would you want them, the work release guys, in YOUR neighborhood, replacing the gardeners, landscapers, roofers, brick workers, et al; doing work that is now done by many migrants who have families and a lot to lose. How about a half-way house for transistioning Cons in a townhouse down the street from your home. And who would pay for the administration and supervision associated with this plan. And what about tort liability if and when one of the Cons go off of the rails, who will pay? And we can follow that death here on WS too!

I've lived next to and worked with guys who have done 20 for murder. I trusted them, but there were plenty of guys they were once on the inside with they would never trust. I trust their judgement in that area.

Yes or NIMBY...you tell me?

 

[Kensie]

I work across the street from a half way house and a homeless shelter is about a mile down the road. Most of the time people are just walking around. There are some gypsys that live behind my work area. There is also a very pretty graveyard behind my work.

None of the people bother me and I don't bother them. Sometimes though it can get scary.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

The US farm industry is heavily subsidized.

"The federal government spends more than $20 billion a year on subsidies for farm businesses."

Agricultural Subsidies

Let's all remember, 'federal government' money is our money. I would be ecstatic if my businesses were subsidized as well.... of course, I'm being facetious.

Regarding this case and as far as farming businesses go, the 'Feds' keep those businesses alive and well (some say for to retain vote loyalty of those constituents, but it's more specifically to maintain the economy in those sectors and consistent food source) with not only financial subsidizing but also by allowing (by looking the other way) for a 'cheap labor' workforce. Problems occur when one of those laborers 'steps out of line'.

MT was murdered at the hands of a 'cheap labor' worker and maybe that means something, but such tragedies also occur at the hands of equally volatile born-in-America citizens so the political argument appears moot. Regardless, it is an issue that should be addressed.

 

[otto]

bbm


Let's all remember, 'federal government' money is our money. I would be ecstatic if my businesses were subsidized as well.... of course, I'm being facetious.

Regarding this case and as far as farming businesses go, the 'Feds' keep those businesses alive and well (some say for to retain vote loyalty of those constituents, but it's more specifically to maintain the economy in those sectors and consistent food source) with not only financial subsidizing but also by allowing (by looking the other way) for a 'cheap labor' workforce. Problems occur when one of those laborers 'steps out of line'.

MT was murdered at the hands of a 'cheap labor' worker and maybe that means something, but such tragedies also occur at the hands of equally volatile born-in-America citizens so the political argument appears moot. Regardless, it is an issue that should be addressed.

It seems obvious that it's a problem that needs to be solved with the farmers, not a wall. If farmers improved conditions to attract local talent, there would be no jobs for illegal immigrants. European and Canadian farms do not have problems with illegal immigrants because the industry is tied to education and training future farmers. It's not about bleeding the workers dry and then doing it again to the next crop of desperate workers. As long as farmers can get away with treating employees poorly, the only people who will put up with it are those whose previous environment is worse. That's where the people like Rivera come into the picture.

If there was no opportunity for Rivera to work on a farm in Iowa, perhaps he would have remained in Mexico, completed his education, and attended an agriculture program where he could learn how to modernize farming and maximize profit in Mexico.

 

[otto]

What's been nagging at me is the location of that cornfield. It seems so random and unnecessarily far away when there are plenty of isolated locations, fields, ponds, and rivers very near site of abduction and along any route south.

Again, I am NOT arguing that CR is a SK. I was, however, curious to see what I could find about SKs and the distances they would go to make contact with their victims vs where they'd leave the body, and here is one older research paper I found. It's interesting.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ath_The_spatial_behavior_of_US_serial_killers

What's striking is Table 1. Basically, the mean average distance for the 4th victim is : ~3.4 miles from SK's home to point of fatal encounter (PFE), and ~14.5 miles from SK's home to body dump (BD). In MT's case, CR's house is roughly 4 miles from site of abduction, and roughly 14 miles to body recovery site.

If I've learned anything from my short time at WS, it's not to look too deep into coincidences, which is all this probably is. But interesting all the same.

When looking at Rivera in the context of SK, there's much to consider in terms of what we know of him and how that fits into known patterns of SK.

 

[Al Hoffman]

The US farm industry is heavily subsidized.

"The federal government spends more than $20 billion a year on subsidies for farm businesses."

Agricultural Subsidies

If farmers put a little less money in their own pockets, and a little more money in wages, quality of life, accommodation, and formal training in agriculture, the entire industry would benefit. Farmhand positions could be filled by locals, and there would be no jobs for people like Rivera.

Farmers are killing themselves (suicide) because they can't make ends meet. For many, there is no give to the bottom line. For others, the problem with the Rat race is that you have to make like the other Rats to win! As it is, a lot of guys do go to school for 4 years to come home and run the family farm. A lot of others take their degree and go on, and leave farming. Farming is becoming more corporate and mechanized. But you still need field hands to harvest certain crops. For those they don't (and won't) pay by the hour to do that in the hot sun, bent over or on a ladder. They pay by how much you pick. Keep track of your count to make sure you get paid right. Americans don't want these jobs. 25% of the crop rotted in Georga (article up this thread) because migrants won't go there anymore because of increased immigration enforcement.

Farmers are subsidized, but they don't have the cash flow you think they have. Most food mark up comes after harvest. Maybe Unilever and other corporations traded on the stock market should subsidize the labor costs of their suppliers, as the corporations that package and market food take the lion's share of the profit.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I assume there were other illegals working on the farm with CR. Why else would they leave the area? Guess the farm used the wrong verification system for them, too. Imo

>>snip

The farm has said that at least a couple of its roughly dozen employees left the area following Rivera's arrest, which sent fear through the immigrant community. The dairy, which has about 800 cows and is owned by a prominent family with Republican Party ties, says it received dozens of angry phone calls and some death threats.

Agents visit dairy farm that employed suspect in Mollie Tibbetts' death

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