ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

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kline said:
And you boarded without an assault rifle and a large supply of expanded clips?
Havent you heard the high seas are swarming with Pirates and whale crazy Greenpeace activists?
And the Coast Guard is totally backed by the GOVERNMENT.
What were you thinking?
Click to expand...

Good thing she didn't port at Guam since it's sinking and all.
 
Sonya610 said:
Seems many of the folks in this thread will obviously NEVER move to the rural south. :)

Around here virtually everyone has guns in their home, car, and many carry. In addition they are not shy about firing them. During hunting season hearing gun shots is the norm. Small arms fire is also common as most folks target practice in their yards.

We also have a very low crime rate. No one is "intimidated" by firearms because most everyone has them. Folks don't think "Oh my god that person has a gun, they could suddenly kill me".

Guess we just aren't "paranoid" in that way.
Click to expand...

Nope it is us who don't like guns who are paranoid "that way" I guess. You folks are paranoid "the other way".
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
...To help you understand about America, I would say we are a nation of extremes. We send our young sons out to fight battles throughout **generations** & around the world-- many die (think Normandy) & we have a bloody history. The numbers of casualties during the Revolution, Civil War, WWI & II, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc, etc is **startling**.
The numbers of our population of soldiers dying is unique in history....
Click to expand...

With the exception of our Civil War, which was not a foreign war, whatever do you mean? Our casualty numbers are very low compared to other combatants in the two World Wars:

England had 7 time as many people killed in WWI as we did; France has 10.3 times as many, Germany had 10.7 to 20 times (and that's just counting combat deaths.

In WWII, Germany lost to death 1 out of every 10 citizens, military and civilian. Russia and the Slavic Countries had 26 MILLION deaths, roughly equivalent to the entire state of California today. US killed and missing totaled about 400,000 (roughly the same lost in Japan in 3 raids: Tokyo fire bombing, and A-bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki). (In fact our entire strategy was to let the Russians do the dying while we built tanks and planes.)

Although it's difficult now to say how many Native Americans were killed in combat and how many died from epidemics inadvertently brought by Europeans, suffice it to say the death ratios are similar to that in WWII.

More recently, we've suffered what? 4,000 to 6,000 deaths in Iraq. Far too many we will all agree. But the Iraqis have suffered more than 100,000!

If we have a "deadly history", it's because we have been so ready to dish it out, not because we have suffered so much mortality.

This is not to diminish the sacrifice of any of our wounded or their loves ones. But I understood you to say the U.S. had some sort unique casualty level throughout history and that is simply not true. The Jews alone lost more people in the early 1940s than the U.S. has lost to war in its entire history.
 
Some new info for your reading pleasure.

Guns Are Now More Likely To Kill Americans Than Car Accidents

(CBS SF) — Americans are more likely to die from gunfire than car accidents, according to data gathered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Improved technology, tougher laws and fewer young people driving have led to safer streets while suicides, accidents and domestic violence with guns continue to increase, according to the CDC.

(snip)

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-likely-to-kill-americans-than-car-accidents/


The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership

Guns are more likely to do harm than good.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...wnership-myth-114262_Page2.html#ixzz3OukPggh0
 
Sonya610 said:
Seems many of the folks in this thread will obviously NEVER move to the rural south. :)

Around here virtually everyone has guns in their home, car, and many carry. In addition they are not shy about firing them. During hunting season hearing gun shots is the norm. Small arms fire is also common as most folks target practice in their yards.

We also have a very low crime rate. No one is "intimidated" by firearms because most everyone has them. Folks don't think "Oh my god that person has a gun, they could suddenly kill me".

Guess we just aren't "paranoid" in that way.
Click to expand...

I live in the rural south. I grew up in a house full of guns. My father collects them. He also repairs them restores them and has even built a couple. He reloads bullets, etc. Life long NRA member. He has a beautiful antique bear gun that I hope to own someday, but that's about the extent of my interest in his hobby. Much to his delight my 9 year old daughter has inherited his interst in guns. He has been taking her target shooting and teaching her gun safety. I have zero problem with this. I trust him implictly and know that he will also teach her a healthy respect for guns. He doesn't hunt so I've no idea if her interest will also include hunting (her career goal is "hog hunter" and she dresses every year for career day at school (what young girl doesn't, lol). Again, I have no problem with her pursuing this, as long as she conducts herself as a responsible hunter. So I'm not someone who anti-gun. I am someone, however, who is 'OMG, that person has a gun, they coulod suddenly kill me" but only in certain circumstances.

Because the last person I saw enter a public building with a gun DID try to kill everyone in the building. I'm going to make this part as vague as possible because there are threads about it here on WS, I'm not going to answer any questions and it's difficult for me to even discuss now. They walked in and began shooting, not wildly firing, deliberately taking aim and walking to the next target. Do you the sound a high powered rifle makes fired in a office or a hallway? Have you ever seen a body torn in two after a being shot at close range by a a high powered rifle? Do you know what if feels like being stuck in a building where you are unable to reach an exit while someone walks, calmly takes aim and shoots? Do you know what that sounds like, smells like, feels like? One police officer arrived in less than five minutes. The gunman shot him. The officer returned fire and that was the end of shooting.

I can't go into a building if I can't see an exit. I haven't been to the movies in years because if someone did enter and began shooting I would have to run past him to get to the exit. It takes everything I have to go see my doctor because her office has long hallways that remind me of the other building. Sometimes I get short of breathe simply walking down that hallway, but that's also getting alot better. I can go into the grocery because I can see exits, but I still feel panicky if I go deep into the store where I can't see the windows and I'm too far away from the exits, but I can do. If someone walked past me with a gun I know that I would have to leave. Hopefully I could leave without throwing up or having a freaking panic attack, but I doubt it. So that's the "big whoop." I don't care if you volunteer 7 days a week at the salvation army, have adopted 37 rescue dogs, teach illerate adults to read or whatever other wonderful things you do. I DON'T KNOW YOU. The person who shot up the building (with his very legal, properly registered firearms) I mentioned was wonderful person....until the day he wasn't. Again, that's the big whoop for me.

Am I paranoid? About firearms, no. About seeing firearms being carried thru grocery stores or Best Buy or some restaurant by someone I know nothing about? You bet.

I understand this MY problem. I'm under no illusion that what I've just related will change anyone's mind about their right to carry anytime, anywhere, nor was that my reason for posting. But I did want to say that it does affect other people around you. To some people it IS a big whoop. I would also guess that the next argument will be that if trouble did go down, I would be grateful that someone was there to neutrilize the bad guy. That would be a wonderful thing. But I do have to wonder how much training you've had specifically for that situation. Not target shooting, but engaging with an active shooter in an enclosed area with other people around who may or may not also be armed. Forgive me if I doubt your walking around with Chris Kyle level skills.

I've seen the south mentioned in this thread. That's where I am too and I do think "OMG, that person has a gun, they could suddenly kill me." I AM paranoid that way in the circumstances I described. I am not paranoid seeing someone use a firearm to hunt (although I did go through a time when EVERY gun shot scared the hades out of me) or seeing a my daughter target shoot. It's not an all or nothing proposition for everyone in the south.

ETA: My apologies to Sonya610. I did use your post to leap off of, but upon review I realize I also discussed things that had nothing to do with your post. While the majority of my post was for all posters in general, I specifically and incorrectly used the word "yourself", esp. regarding training. I should have been more clear and I apologize to you.
 
lib's mom said:
I live in the rural south. I grew up in a house full of guns. My father collects them. He also repairs them restores them and has even built a couple. He reloads bullets, etc. Life long NRA member. He has a beautiful antique bear gun that I hope to own someday, but that's about the extent of my interest in his hobby. Much to his delight my 9 year old daughter has inherited his interst in guns. He has been taking her target shooting and teaching her gun safety. I have zero problem with this. I trust him implictly and know that he will also teach her a healthy respect for guns. He doesn't hunt so I've no idea if her interest will also include hunting (her career goal is "hog hunter" and she dresses every year for career day at school (what young girl doesn't, lol). Again, I have no problem with her pursuing this, as long as she conducts herself as a responsible hunter. So I'm not someone who anti-gun. I am someone, however, who is 'OMG, that person has a gun, they coulod suddenly kill me" but only in certain circumstances.

Because the last person I saw enter a public building with a gun DID try to kill everyone in the building. I'm going to make this part as vague as possible because there are threads about it here on WS, I'm not going to answer any questions and it's difficult for me to even discuss now. They walked in and began shooting, not wildly firing, deliberately taking aim and walking to the next target. Do you the sound a high powered rifle makes fired in a office or a hallway? Have you ever seen a body torn in two after a being shot at close range by a a high powered rifle? Do you know what if feels like being stuck in a building where you are unable to reach an exit while someone walks, calmly takes aim and shoots? Do you know what that sounds like, smells like, feels like? One police officer arrived in less than five minutes. The gunman shot him. The officer returned fire and that was the end of shooting.

I can't go into a building if I can't see an exit. I haven't been to the movies in years because if someone did enter and began shooting I would have to run past him to get to the exit. It takes everything I have to go see my doctor because her office has long hallways that remind me of the other building. Sometimes I get short of breathe simply walking down that hallway, but that's also getting alot better. I can go into the grocery because I can see exits, but I still feel panicky if I go deep into the store where I can't see the windows and I'm too far away from the exits, but I can do. If someone walked past me with a gun I know that I would have to leave. Hopefully I could leave without throwing up or having a freaking panic attack, but I doubt it. So that's the "big whoop." I don't care if you volunteer 7 days a week at the salvation army, have adopted 37 rescue dogs, teach illerate adults to read or whatever other wonderful things you do. I DON'T KNOW YOU. The person who shot up the building (with his very legal, properly registered firearms) I mentioned was wonderful person....until the day he wasn't. Again, that's the big whoop for me.

Am I paranoid? About firearms, no. About seeing firearms being carried thru grocery stores or Best Buy or some restaurant by someone I know nothing about? You bet.

I understand this MY problem. I'm under no illusion that what I've just related will change anyone's mind about their right to carry anytime, anywhere, nor was that my reason for posting. But I did want to say that it does affect other people around you. To some people it IS a big whoop. I would also guess that the next argument will be that if trouble did go down, I would be grateful that someone was there to neutrilize the bad guy. That would be a wonderful thing. But I do have to wonder how much training you've had specifically for that situation. Not target shooting, but engaging with an active shooter in an enclosed area with other people around who may or may not also be armed. Forgive me if I doubt your walking around with Chris Kyle level skills.

I've seen the south mentioned in this thread. That's where I am too and I do think "OMG, that person has a gun, they could suddenly kill me." I AM paranoid that way in the circumstances I described. I am not paranoid seeing someone use a firearm to hunt (although I did go through a time when EVERY gun shot scared the hades out of me) or seeing a my daughter target shoot. It's not an all or nothing proposition for everyone in the south.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry that happened to you Lib's Mom, your description of the after effects of such a horrible experience is very powerful, I very much hope you can again find peace and a feeling of more security in your life in the future.
 
lib's mom said:
I live in the rural south. I grew up in a house full of guns. My father collects them. He also repairs them restores them and has even built a couple. He reloads bullets, etc. Life long NRA member. He has a beautiful antique bear gun that I hope to own someday, but that's about the extent of my interest in his hobby. Much to his delight my 9 year old daughter has inherited his interst in guns. He has been taking her target shooting and teaching her gun safety. I have zero problem with this. I trust him implictly and know that he will also teach her a healthy respect for guns. He doesn't hunt so I've no idea if her interest will also include hunting (her career goal is "hog hunter" and she dresses every year for career day at school (what young girl doesn't, lol). Again, I have no problem with her pursuing this, as long as she conducts herself as a responsible hunter. So I'm not someone who anti-gun. I am someone, however, who is 'OMG, that person has a gun, they coulod suddenly kill me" but only in certain circumstances.

SNIP

Am I paranoid? About firearms, no. About seeing firearms being carried thru grocery stores or Best Buy or some restaurant by someone I know nothing about? You bet.

SNIP

I am not paranoid seeing someone use a firearm to hunt (although I did go through a time when EVERY gun shot scared the hades out of me) or seeing a my daughter target shoot. It's not an all or nothing proposition for everyone in the south.
Click to expand...

respectfully snipped and bolded by me for focus

Thank you for this. Very well articulated. Regarding the personal experience you described, I am terribly sorry that happened to you and appreciate your sharing so eloquently how that experience had a deep and lasting effect on your psyche.
 
daisy7 said:
Some new info for your reading pleasure.

Guns Are Now More Likely To Kill Americans Than Car Accidents

(CBS SF) — Americans are more likely to die from gunfire than car accidents, according to data gathered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Improved technology, tougher laws and fewer young people driving have led to safer streets while suicides, accidents and domestic violence with guns continue to increase, according to the CDC.

(snip)

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-likely-to-kill-americans-than-car-accidents/


The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership

Guns are more likely to do harm than good.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...wnership-myth-114262_Page2.html#ixzz3OukPggh0
Click to expand...

Too bad that both the headline and the snippet from the article are both false.

Makes for good fear-mongering, though.
 
sonjay said:

Too bad that both the headline and the snippet from the article are both false.

Makes for good fear-mongering, though.
Click to expand...

That's it sonjay? They are false? Do you mean you don't believe it? Don't want to believe it? Or you somehow know them to be false?

What about the second article linked that shows us the previously reported cases of self defence with a gun were grossly exaggerated ?
 
CoolJ said:
That's it sonjay? They are false? Do you mean you don't believe it? Don't want to believe it? Or you somehow know them to be false?

What about the second article linked that shows us the previously reported cases of self defence with a gun were grossly exaggerated ?
Click to expand...

I know them to be false.

If you click through and read the article, and look at the graph, you will also know them to be false.
 
iIpduQjKWA.k.jpg
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html
Pls note date = Dec19, 2012, IOW 2 yrs old.
Also is predicting/projecting about death ratesin 2011 to 2015. Not reporting actual causes of actual deaths.
From chart's legend: "Firearm fatalities include homicides, suicides, and accidents.". BBM

From article's text: " About 85 Americans are shot dead daily -- 53 of them suicides.
Every day, one of those killed by firearms is 14 or younger.
"Of the total, the CDC data show, 16 are between the ages of 15 and 24, mostly homicide victims." bbm

If we exclude suicides from projected firearm deaths, are there more projected firearms deaths than projected motor vehicle deaths?
Thx in adv.
 
Also from article linked above:
"In the past several decades, we’ve seen remarkable improvements in both the way motorists behave on our roadways and in the safety of the vehicles they drive,” according to a Dec. 10 statement by the agency." National Highway Traffic Safety Admin.

A bit o/t:
Did anyone involved in this study think about smart phones and similar devices?
While driving, are ppl going to spend less time -
- yakking and texting ?
- looking at GPS, weather reports, news?
- FB, IG, tweets, yada yada?

Is it poss motor vehicle death rates will increase?
 
al66pine said:
If we exclude suicides from projected firearm deaths, are there more projected firearms deaths than projected motor vehicle deaths?
Click to expand...

There are about 30,000 auto deaths each year and about 11,000 homicides using a firearm. The articles like to imply every American's risk of dying by gunshot is the SAME as being killed in an auto crash, as if firearms are these random killers that could suddenly decide to take your life just the way a drunk driver on the highway might. That could NOT be further from the truth.

Your risk of dying via gunshot depends HEAVILY on your ethnicity, gender, and conscious decisions. Murder is the leading cause of death for young black males and firearms account for the vast majority (55% of all murder victims are black).

92% of firearm suicides are committed by white individuals with the majority being white men (women still prefer poisoning/hanging by a small margin). White individuals account for the vast majority of suicides regardless of methods.

Homicide and suicide rates are usually inversely proportionate; populations with the highest homicide rates tend to have low suicide rates, and the opposite is also generally true.

inlinecharts21.jpg


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2013/03/inlinecharts21.jpg
 
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