ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 63

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She gave out his name, TIME OF VISIT, and her version of his mental health status (chipper, cheerful, charming) and also said that her boss (the doctor?) concurred. Charming, she said her boss said.


Chatty, she says. Hmm.

You know what I think in that case? Perhaps his speech is pressured. Maybe he's too voluble. Charming? That's a symptom categorized in DSM, etc. These are mental health statements and she had no right to tell the reporter these things (and someone called the reporter - apparently the receptionist).

Sounds like she remembered his chatty behavior (as so many others have done) because it was unusual?

MOO.
<modsnip> I have been retired for awhile. I worked in HIM. She did not state his diagnosis or medical condition.
Saying that someone is "nice" is not stating that person's medical diagnosis.
 
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Good, I love it. I hope it's from on of his victim's fingernails.The one along his jaw is a nasty looking scrape. If not from victims, maybe from some unwilling "love making" he endured in jail.

The marks weren't visible at his last court appearance and the murders happened in Novemeber so I can't possibly imagine that it would be caused by one of his victims and if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read he is in protective custody so he wouldn't be available to date anyone in general population yet.
 
Most people do not bruise their necks while shaving though. And it does look like a bruise in that enlarged photo from last thread.

MOO.
That type of bruising is VERY common when shaving with a different type / brand of blade. If you have coarse whiskers and soft neck skin, this is the result. Happens to me all the time.
 
I think it will also depend on the treatment contract. Many doctor offices assure you of confidentiality in your intake paperwork. Mine did. Most professional services are confidential.

I mean, does anyone expect - legal or not - that if they went to the doctor, the receptionist could call the local newspaper and report on your issues? Should the receptionist at an OBGYN be allowed to call a patient's spouse, parents, school and report a visit that could be sensitive without permission? That's why there is usually confidentiality on top of any legally required records issues.
Yes, especially in the case of Behavioral Health. That is quite different.
Where did she report on his "issues" though? Not arguing, I just never saw where that was stated. Did the receptionist give out his diagnosis, his medical condition? Not that I saw. Stating someone is "nice and charming" is NOT a medical diagnosis and is not part of a person's medical record, it is merely an observation of someone's demeanor.

I would like it if someone here with a background in HIM would care to comment.
 
Agreed. He's moved on from his "eager to be exonerated" phase to his "woe is me eating prison vegan food and shaving with dull razors" phase.
Totally agree. I've worked with so many stellar people with great integrity and character who experienced bullying, abuse and horrific childhoods.

IMO he struggled deeply in his adolescence as is evidenced by his purported heroin addiction and his TAT writings (if those are his writings). He tried different things to be more normal but for whatever reason he didn't get the help that he desperately needed.

If he was a heroin addict who went to a recovery program, he would likely have received individual and family therapy.

Has anybody read how he recovered from his purported heroin addiction?
 
The case has generated so much interest that it seems that people who barely knew him or knew him 15-20 years ago are wanting to get their 2 cents in (IMO, worth 2 cents at the most :)) and be "important" through being talked about in the media.

It would be great, however, if some people with really helpful information popped up. But, then, how could we actually trust it since it's just 1 person's recollection from a long time ago . . .
I suspect people with really important information would not contact the press and be dragged into this swamp, but would contact LE directly and discretely.
 
I wonder if this mysterious potential co-defendant is the reason why LE asked to seal record temporarily in order to not damage the investigation. Maybe LE is watching someone else but doesn’t have enough for an arrest yet but doesn’t want to spook them??? MOO
Or the reason the clean up of the house was halted?
And the defence investigators were employed?
 
Okay I have an entirely new theory now. This is all MOO, etc.

Since we found out about his Reddit survey, I've questioned whether he might have been looking for people like him. Did he ultimately want to create a community or a partnership?

So then we find out the search warrant is sealed. I believe BK is guilty but I have also racked my brain trying to figure out what could be a threat to LEO and public safety other than another involved party.

I still wasn't ready to really consider an accomplice until I saw this today.

Yes, BK could be playing games. I truly do feel like this has been the culmination of a game for him.

But then I consider how fast everything happened. We don't even know what time the car was parked. It was still moving at 0404.

What if there were two people and one was circling around watching for the other to come out of the house?
After the hearing this morning. It left me wondering similar to your thoughts. Thinking back to when he asked if anyone else had been arrested or words to that affect. His willingness to get back so he would be exonerated. It seems to lean toward a game of defense. It’s something to think on.
 
She also told them he scheduled a routine follow up for the spring semester. I do not work in healthcare so I will defer to you but that seems like it MUST be a violation

I agree it must be a violation ...especially because I am now asking myself "what 28 year old has medical appointments on a quarterly basis?"
 
That could be all it is. On the other hand, if she'd known him to threaten girls with a knife, or something like that, she might have felt compelled to report it. Who knows.
Thanks, that's helpful. Would be great if multiple people reported similar significant problems they experienced with BK at various stages of his life. . .
 
I agree it must be a violation ...especially because I am now asking myself "what 28 year old has medical appointments on a quarterly basis?"
If he's on a stimulant medication, some states requires that doctors, PAs and NPs see the patient quarterly to assess how they are doing prior to prescribing the stimulant again.

Could be a medical thing, too, but it's puzzling given his age. MOO
 
Has anybody read how he recovered from his purported heroin addiction?
PA has very generous resources for children and adolescents with mental health and/addiction issues. I am more familiar with the mh side, so I can share that anyone under 18 with a mh dx can apply for and receive medical assistance to access treatment services, provided they are approved by Aetna/MA. I believe similar is true for addiction issues. Imo, unless they had generous insurance, BK’s parents were not in a financial situation that would have allowed for private help, though I could be wrong. Here’s a short blurb on the assistance in PA for addiction treatment options. It’s more recent than the time when BK was likely pursuing tx (if he did), but similar options were available imo.


OTOH, he may well have detoxed and recovered on his own or through NA or similar.

Edit: grammar
 
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I suspect people with really important information would not contact the press and be dragged into this swamp, but would contact LE directly and discretely.
Well-said. The ones who are contacting media or being interviewed in media aren't likely people with significant and information critical to this case since LE would not be announcing critical information to the media that could get in the way of his conviction. MOO
 
Bryan Kohberger returned to an Idaho courtroom Thursday and said through his attorney that he plans to challenge the evidence against him at a preliminary hearing.


Did I miss this part at the hearing? Is it a routine thing that happens at a prelim? The article doesn't explain further than that. tia!

Very routine. Today was a status hearing. BK had a right to have the preliminary hearing begin in a week; his attorney wanted more time; the preliminary hearing was scheduled for late June. The ‘challenge the evidence’ wording, I believe, is typical defense attorney bluster. Doesn’t mean anything except that, if the preliminary hearing takes place, she may exercise her right to cross examine.

(I’m not saying that all defense attorneys bluster, just that it’s quite common to see a progression from: “my client is 110% innocent”, to “ how about a plea bargain?”

MOO
 
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What do the facual allegations of the PCA prove, in your opinion? Is more evidence required to convict?

Here are the stock Idaho Criminal Jury Instruction for First Degree Murder with Malice Aforethought (edited by me, with original annotations included), with definition instructions added:

"In order for the defendant to be guilty of First Degree Murder with malice aforethought, the state must prove each of the following:

1. On or about [date]
2. in the state of Idaho
3. the defendant [name] engaged in conduct which caused the death of [name of decedent],
4. the defendant acted without justification or excuse,
5. with malice aforethought, and

6. [...]

[the murder was a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. Premeditation means to consider beforehand whether to kill or not to kill, and then to decide to kill. There does not have to be any appreciable period of time during which the decision to kill was considered, as long as it was reflected upon before the decision was made. A mere unconsidered and rash impulse, even though it includes an intent to kill, is not premeditation];
[...}.

If you find that the state has failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt any of the elements one(1) – five(5) above or failed to prove any of the circumstances listed in element six(6), you must find the defendant not guilty of First Degree Murder. If you find that elements one(1) – five(5) above have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and you unanimously agree that the state has proven any of the above circumstance under element six(6) beyond a reasonable doubt, you must find the defendant guilty of first degree murder. [You are not required to agree as to which circumstance under element six (6) you find to exist.]

If you find that the state has failed to prove any of the above, you must find the defendant not guilty of first degree murder. If you find that all of the above have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then you must find the defendant guilty of first degree murder.


Comment

Idaho Code §§ 18-4001, 18-4003.

ICJI 703 applies to cases in which the indictment or information charges that the defendant committed first degree murder with malice aforethought. ICJI 703A applies to cases where the defendant is charged with first degree torture murder. ICJI 703B applies to cases where the defendant is charged with felony murder under Idaho Code § 18-4003(d). The court should use the instruction or instructions that apply to the charges in the particular case.

In State v. Butcher, 137 Idaho 125, 44 P.3d 1180 (Ct. App. 2002), the court held the term “engaged in conduct” is neither confusing nor in need of clarification to the jury.

The phrase "without justification or excuse, and" should be deleted if that issue is not raised by the evidence, and paragraphs four and five should be modified accordingly.

If the court is going to instruct on the included offense of Voluntary Manslaughter, the transition instruction 225, and then the Voluntary Manslaughter instruction 708, should be given.

In order to avoid possible prejudicial effect from the introduction of evidence in the case in chief that the defendant has once been convicted of murder, the court may want to consider bifurcated proceedings where the crime is to be enhanced to first degree murder while under a sentence for murder, or on probation or parole for murder. If such a procedure is to be followed, the committee recommends that the jury deliberate first on the elements of murder, plus any other related enhancements to first degree murder, then, depending on the outcome of that deliberation, ICJI 706 be given.

-------

Murder Defined

Murder is the killing of a human being [without legal justification or excuse and]

[with malice aforethought]

...

[or]

[in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate,... [burglary] ... [mayhem]...] .

[The killing of a human being is legally [justified] [or] [excused] when (describe the particular justification or excuse, such as "done in self-defense"). You will be instructed later on the elements of legal [justification] [and] [excuse.]

Comment

For legal justification see I.C. § 18–4009. For further instruction on legal justification see ICJI 1514 and ICJI 1515. Excusable homicide is defined in I.C. § 18–4012. For instructions on excusable homicide and self-defense see ICJI 1516 to ICJI 1521.

------

Malice Defined

Malice may be express or implied.

Malice is express when there is manifested a deliberate intention unlawfully to kill a human being.

Malice is implied when:

1. The killing resulted from an intentional act,
2. The natural consequences of the act are dangerous to human life, and
3. The act was deliberately performed with knowledge of the danger to, and with conscious disregard for, human life.

When it is shown that a killing resulted from the intentional doing of an act with express or implied malice, no other mental state need be shown to establish the mental state of malice aforethought. The mental state constituting malice aforethought does not necessarily require any ill will or hatred of the person killed.

The word "aforethought" does not imply deliberation or the lapse of time. It only means that the malice must precede rather than follow the act.

Comment

I.C. § 18–4002.

Do not use this instruction if the only murder charge is felony murder or murder by the intentional application of torture because these crimes do not require proof of malice aforethought. Idaho Code § 18-4001; State v. Pratt, 125 Idaho 594, 873 P.2d 848 (1994); State v. Lankford, 116 Idaho 860, 781 P.2d 197 (1989).

There is no legal distinction between malice and malice aforethought. State v. Dunlap, 125 Idaho 530, 873 P.2d 784 (1993).

When the charge is attempted second degree murder, this instruction must be amended to delete any reference to implied malice. The intent to kill is required for attempted second degree murder. State v. Buckley, 131 Idaho 164, 953 P.2d 604 (1998).
 
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I agree it must be a violation ...especially because I am now asking myself "what 28 year old has medical appointments on a quarterly basis?"
Alot of people are on meds that have to be monitored. Age has no bearing on it. There was speculation he has a thyroid condition. If so, blood tests are required at regular intervals to ensure the level of TSH is within range.
 
That type of bruising is VERY common when shaving with a different type / brand of blade. If you have coarse whiskers and soft neck skin, this is the result. Happens to me all the time.
I've NEVER seen a bruise on my husband's neck regardless of what kind of razor over the last 3+ years. Yes, he's tried all kinds, except of course prison issue. Even in desperation he's stole my one blade dull bic in a jam. But, I'm not a man. I totally get the nicks but not the throat bruise.
 
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