ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 67

[ilovewings]

I think unconscious bias can be a huge issue with juries (and all of us)...despite the evidence, emotional bias and even emotional needs can pull a person to fit evidence to the bias and the need. MOO. I think it's important to have a highly experienced judge with an impeccable record of impartiality to direct a jury and explain to a jury very explicitly that their personal and gut reactions to a defendent must be put to one side. In an ideal world MOO off topic.

Sorry, you can never put emotional reactions aside- on juries as well. How many times do we hear jurors say he or she looked cold, or he or she didn't seem to have an appropriate reaction to something. Jurors have human reactions to defendants and to witnesses as well. When I was doing paralegal work for medical malpractice, we would help pick juries -- very unpredictable. Cases we should have won, we lost, cases we should have lost we won. Once in while we got the correct result. When you talk to jurors you find out all kinds of things of what they were thinking, lots of it, based on their own experiences in the past and emotions. You cannot change that. Sometimes for some reason a juror just doesn't like the plaintiff or the defendant or some of the witnesses. No rhyme or reason for it. it just is.

 

[jepop]

Sorry, you can never put emotional reactions aside- on juries as well. How many times do we hear jurors say he or she looked cold, or he or she didn't seem to have an appropriate reaction to something. Jurors have human reactions to defendants and to witnesses as well. When I was doing paralegal work for medical malpractice, we would help pick juries -- very unpredictable. Cases we should have won, we lost, cases we should have lost we won. Once in while we got the correct result. When you talk to jurors you find out all kinds of things of what they were thinking, lots of it, based on their own experiences in the past and emotions. You cannot change that. Sometimes for some reason a juror just doesn't like the plaintiff or the defendant or some of the witnesses. No rhyme or reason for it. it just is.

Oh yes, I agree, it's an ideal. But we should try our best when on a jury and have help from an experienced judge to remind us MOO.

 

[maskedwoman]

I have a hard time thinking of a possible reason why they wouldn't have taken his work computer or any other computerized equipment he would have worked on. I mean, there should have been something, right?

Do we know for sure that he had a work computer provided by WSU? I believe they took a tower computer from his apartment, which I never expected a college student to be using. Sure can't use that to take notes in class. Or use digital versions of books. If he does have a laptop, and had it with him when arrested, perhaps they seized it then? I would imagine he wouldn't want to leave it in his apartment to possibly be stolen during his visit home. MOO

 

[jepop]

I think it's possible that BK wanted to commit a mass murder, encountered one or more of the victims and began to stalk her/them. For all we know, he may have stalked other people, either other groups of housemates or a family. Unless LE finds writings that explain his motives, all we have to go on is that he did the crime by home invasion and slaughtered 4 people. Had he wanted to kill only one of them, he probably would have stalked until he found an opportunity to get her alone. It could simply have been that they were young, good looking, popular and alive. It could simply have been that he wanted to know what killing felt like and in particular what it means to kill something beautiful, desirable. Why do big game hunters want to kill elephants or leopards or lions? Because it makes them feel powerful.

That's not to say that there wasn't personal interaction of some sort, e.g., taking an order in a restaurant or chatting while in line at a coffee shop. But given no evidence of actual physical or verbal contact, whatever was going on was going on in BK's mind.

Great thoughts and that is on point (BBM) MOO

 

[Canchance]

I'm trying to remember from the affidavit if they said the dog was heard barking at 4:17am. One thought I had was, if there was a murder happening on the 3rd floor before then, why would the dog start barking at 4:17? It seems the dog would start barking when it either encountered BK or he heard or saw the attack. I don't think the dog would wait until after all the chaos was over on the 3rd floor and THEN start barking.

We don’t know what dog was barking.

 

[jepop]

RBBM
Finding info about the victims in his apartment is significant. Which victims & what kind of data compilations?

Sounds like clear evidence of PREMEDITATION to me!

I want to know more about this particular evidence.

JMO

The shoes is inaccurate. The Return of Services Document, last page below, Unfortunately the NY Post stated soemthing as fact that was not fact.

Last page, and sorry I'm finding cut and paste too hard with the doc I have.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

 

[shetalksinstereo]

Something interesting I just learned about walmart, if you have an online account and use a card for payment, when you use that card in store it puts the items you purchased in your online account and tracks what you buy. I am sure he paid in cash but this development could help cases in the future, and a bit big brotherish.

I haven't noticed that on my account, but I am going to look. I know when I have returned items to Walmart, I have been able to give them the card I used for purchase, and they were able to look it up and process the return without a receipt for the price paid for the item and I know when I use the same card for purchases at TJ Maxx, it recognizes my email etc. so I would assume the same for Marshall's.

 

[SMK777]

This case is so high profile that I'm expecting there to be other leaks down the road including what they gleaned from the white Elantra and trash search in PA.

At some point (hopefully soon), the amount of solid evidence is so overwhelming that the destiny of BK is sealed.

Do you think his defense attorney will advise him to plead out, rather than trying to mount a convoluted defense strategy?

 

[WingsOverTX]

The shoes is inaccurate. The Return of Services Document, last page below, Unfortunately the NY Post stated soemthing as fact that was not fact.

Last page, and sorry I'm finding cut and paste too hard with the doc I have.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

I understand but I wasn't posting about the shoes.

 

[Montecore1]

Correct, numerous times starting at approximately 4:17. IMHO it is a bit ambiguous as to whether the distortion of the audio is true for the dog barking or just the voices/whimpering sounds and loud thud.

And it is believed that this is the camera/microphone that picked it up.

View attachment 396324

Source

Exactly layer...I also believe that is the cam that recorded the noises. If ya look at an overhead shot of those two houses, IMO it really shows how unlikely it is that cam could have picked up sounds from inside the victims house that is behind them. If it is somehow that sensitive I wonder how they could decipher those sounds from all the much more pronounced outside noises it would be picking up MOO

I think many people have lost sight of the concept of "reasonable doubt" and think "circumstantial evidence" means weak evidence that needs nitpicking. I've seen it in these threads.

I totally agree CK and most criminals are indeed convicted on circumstantial evidence. For me, it's not if the evidence is circumstantial its the amount of it. A plethora circumstantial evidence certainly checks all the boxes and narrows the field of innocence over just a few pieces of CE, especially if those can be proven questionable. MOO

 

[jepop]

Honestly, why would one keep receipts for items they bought to commit a crime? I would think you'd go to some random store far away, pay cash, burn the receipt, and get rid of the item afterwards. Surely he wasn't going to return the item, or turn the receipt in to his accountant. There are thrift stores everywhere, too, maybe less likely to have cameras or whatnot. I've seen multiple cases where there was Walmart footage of the perp buying bleach or whatever right before he crime. Stupid.

I'd be pretty surprised if the receipts are crime related at all. But...who knows. Wait and see time...

 

[jepop]

Honestly, why would one keep receipts for items they bought to commit a crime? I would think you'd go to some random store far away, pay cash, burn the receipt, and get rid of the item afterwards. Surely he wasn't going to return the item, or turn the receipt in to his accountant. There are thrift stores everywhere, too, maybe less likely to have cameras or whatnot. I've seen multiple cases where there was Walmart footage of the perp buying bleach or whatever right before he crime. Stupid.

Or wait... did I miss where the receipts are tied to crime...genuine question

 

[Celt1997]

Are several of these media outlets being "willfully ignorant" or are they just flat out dumb when it comes to reading these documents?

So many of them reporting things that were "found" (i.e. shoes, computer information, etc.) when all the document says is that they were instructed to "look" for those items. As far as I can tell they took the computer to investigate, but no such confirmation on computer connections to the victims being verified exists in those documents.

 

[jepop]

Are several of these media outlets being "willfully ignorant" or are they just flat out dumb when it comes to reading these documents?

So many of them reporting things that were "found" (i.e. shoes, computer information, etc.) when all the document says is that they were instructed to "look" for those items. As far as I can tell they took the computer to investigate, but no such confirmation on computer connections to the victims being verified exists in those documents.

It's an interesting question, I don't understand it myself. It's just bizarre IMO

 

[Which_pancake]

Or wait... did I miss where the receipts are tied to crime...genuine question

As far as I know, we don't know for sure. But since they were one of (IMO) relatively few items taken from his house, I suspect the police strongly believe they are related to the crime. MOO

 

[jdglove]

If I saw someone put trash in my can idycall the police or that person’s significant other cause they are up to no good in my mind.

Jmo

I don't suppose there's much harm in calling them other than occupying their time taking the call. Unless they are actively staking out a person as in this case, they will just make a note of such a report.

The bins are owned by the city. They are not your property. Once they are put on the street, they are on public property and nothing in them belongs to you any longer.

Anyone can go through your trash (when it is on the curb). They can add more trash to your bin, take possession of your discarded items etc. If your bin is full and there is room in a neighbor's, you can use theirs for your excess. I'd ask permission out of courtesy, but it's not necessary.

That's the whole reason police can go through trash and collect evidence without a warrant as they did in this case. The suspect must have been a poor student not to realize that.

 

[Elley Mae]

Exactly layer...I also believe that is the cam that recorded the noises. If ya look at an overhead shot of those two houses, IMO it really shows how unlikely it is that cam could have picked up sounds from inside the victims house that is behind them. If it is somehow that sensitive I wonder how they could decipher those sounds from all the outside noises it would be picking up MOO

I totally agree CK and yes most criminals are indeed convicted on circumstantial evidence. For me it's not if the evidence is circumstantial its the amount of it. A plethora circumstantial evidence certainly checks all the boxes an narrows the field of innocence over just a few pieces of CE, especially if those can be proven questionable. MOO

I’m thinking at 4:00am there was not alot of noise, or traffic other then a white elantra & door dash vehicle.

 

[Honeybirdette]

Agree. And although wearing gloves while taking out the trash might be a sign of being super clean, more likely it was just BK avoiding leaving prints or DNA on the bag. Putting the trash in the neighbors’ bin was clearly a sneaky and deceptive move by BK.

It is, assuming there was something of evidential value he put in his neighbours trash, he had been forensically aware on one hand… but the other, he put it in his NEIGHBOURS trash. I mean, does he really think that wouldn’t be traced back to him? Has he not considered LE would clock on that it was likely him? Considering he goes to uni 10 miles from the crime scene! I know he’s intelligent but Jesus, where’s his common sense?

 

[sleuth_truths]

Sincere question as I have no knowledge regarding search warrant receipts: If swabs of plumbing were, indeed, taken -- would those swabs have to be listed as items taken?

 

[isabella88]

Sincere question as I have no knowledge regarding search warrant receipts: If swabs of plumbing were, indeed, taken -- would those swabs have to be listed as items taken?

I believe so. LE has to be upfront about what they take in search warrants.