ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

[PacoElFlaco]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Let’s try to narrow down the murder weapon the best we can.

According to MPD websites:

• Local businesses were contacted to determine if a fixed-blade knife had been recently purchased.”

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

What are the characteristic of a fixed-blade knife:

A fixed-blade knives have a blade that extends into the handle of the knife. The blade can be either full tang or partial tang, meaning that the blade can either extend the entire length of the handle or partially into the handle.

A fixed-blade knife is without folding mechanism. A kitchen knife is most commonly example of a fixed-blade.

Now let’s take a look at the coroner characteristic of the knife:

“Coroner says University of Idaho students were murdered with large knife”

“"They were all murdered from a stabbing through a larger knife," coroner Cathy Mabbutt told CBS News. “

<modsnip: Images removed due to no link to source>

Coroner says University of Idaho students were murdered with large knife

The city of Moscow remains in shock as little information has been released about the deaths of four students.

www.cbsnews.com

Moscow police appear to be searching for a “Rambo”-style knife (store manager)

“Police have visited the store more than once to ask whether the retailer sold anyone Ka-Bar brand knives, which are also known as K bar knives.”

“Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell told the Statesman on Thursday that detectives visited several local hardware stores that may carry “fixed-blade type knives,” but that they weren’t solely asking about Ka-Bar knives.”
We can only surmise that K-Bar (fixed-blade) have the closest characteristics of the murder weapon.

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268833397.html

So it appears that the murder weapon has the following characteristics:

- Fixed-blade
- Large
- Rambo style knife (as per store manager)
- Could be a Kbar brand

An example of a large fixed-blade knives:
There are various fixed-blade style, Bowie have the similar features to the murder weapon described by the coroner (large) and the store manager (Rambo style) or combat type of knife.

Bowie Style Fixed Blade - Bowie Knives are large knives, usually worn on a leather/ sheath.

Fixed-Blade brand:

- The KA-BAR brand designed the Becker BK-9 (they have this one in Amazon 9 inch blade for $130)

- Buck Knives 119 Special 6 inch (this one is a little cheaper $69) this is not Ka-Bar brand.

- Tactical Bowie Survival Hunting Rambo Bushcraft Knife with Kydex Sheath Military Combat Fixed Blade, with Non-Slip Handle, for Camping, Hunting, and Adventure, 12.2 this is the cheapest knife out of the 3, it’s $21.44 and it’s the biggest 12.2 inch

“Idaho State Police told the Statesman on Thursday that detectives visited several local hardware stores that may carry “fixed-blade type knives,” but that they weren’t solely asking about Ka-Bar knives.”

I am leaning towards the cheapest knifes with the biggest blades. But we shall see.

Just knowing the characteristic of the murder weapon may help aid the investigation. The killer friends, acquaintances or a family member May remember him carrying this weapon.

Kabar Clone for 19.99 at BudK.Com Not as good steel as the original, but would certainly be effective under the circumstances we are looking for.

 

[AneutherSleuther]

Or it’s when the sun came up so they figured he had to have left before then…..

Or something happened at 6am that we don’t know about yet. I can‘t shake the feeling that it was someone staying in the house (not E, obviously, and not a housemate). Someone staying in a downstairs room. It would explain a lot, including the guy’s reaction at the presser to the question “did the perp enter a downstairs room?” (I’m paraphrasing there). If that person left at 6am and this is corroborated by either surviving housemate or neighbour’s footage, then that would explain the 6am time stamp for the end point.
MOO.

 

[otto]

If Xana's bedroom was at the front of the house (the bedroom with blood drips), the murderer had to walk around the second floor to find that bedroom (red numbers).

The murders were targeted. At least one person in the house was the target, and three others were collateral damage?

 

[otto]

That third floor map seems off — a hall/common closet seems to be missing based on what another WS (MoveToTheBeat) posted earlier in this thread?

The third floor bathroom still has to be added. Maybe a hall closet too. Schematics of where the bedrooms are located, and who was in which bedroom ... was Xana's bedroom on the second floor facing the street with blood dripping down exterior walls, or was her bedroom facing the hill behind the house?

 

[Mojodojo]

This wasn't planned, it's too personal.

IMO and taking previous cases Im aware of as precedent, if an attack was personal, it's planned. Unplanned attacks are in the heat of the moment.

IMO, I don't see how it could have been heat of the moment, not planned if the victims were killed in their sleep. Nothing about them sleeping should cause someone to kill them.

Also, LE says no items were missing and they have not found a murder weapon. If it were not planned, they would have not brought a knife but used one from the house. LE would have noticed it was gone, would not have said nothing is missing, and would have known the exact murder weapon. Clearly the murder weapon is not a missing kitchen knife based off what LE has described, but a more aggressive one that the killer entered the house with. This is my opinion, and it makes it hard for me to imagine it was not a targeted, evil planned out attack. How is there no blood visible in the house from what we've seen? The roommates likely didn't see blood from the description of the 911 call. The killer didn't track blood outside from what i've seen. It sounds like most of the evidence was contained to the rooms. They had to have done something to not track any blood outside, right? All MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

The third floor bathroom still has to be added. Maybe a hall closet too. Schematics of where the bedrooms are located, and who was in which bedroom ... was Xana's bedroom on the second floor facing the street with blood dripping down exterior walls, or was her bedroom facing the hill behind the house?

I keep going back to what the coroner said: that based on her investigation, the drips were consistent with blood and correlated to a bedroom someone(s) was killed in. Wish I had transcription skills!

I’m directionally challenged under the best circumstances!

Edit: I thought you had the third floor bathroom on this earlier? Or have I lost my mind? LOL

Edit: source of Coroner Mabbutt’s comments are from the NewsNation Banfield ~podcast~ dated 11/17/2022 starting at about 25:46.

 

[sleuthloapf]

If the 911 call occurred because the callers thought one person was unconscious on the second floor were Xana and Ethan not found together? They were a couple would they have slept in different beds. The floor plan shows Xanas bed was on the second floor just trying to understand. I know it’s reported that Xana showed defensive wounds but then surely it cannot be said to be that they were “sleeping”

 

[JohnBull]

probably a creepy dude who lives in the neighborhood its always the creep next door or down the street in the appartments.

I tend to think it's someone who lives in the vicinity, or someone with some connection to the vicinity.

 

[WildWest]

The guy who gestures that the girls are leaving to the hooded guy they walked up with. Yea that guy. Heavy set. Tan hat and tan zip up jacket. Beard. Very suspicious and odd behavior around M and K. MOO He arrives before them alone and leave on foot after them in the same direction. It could be nothing. Lots of dudes are undercover creeps, but this guys stands out to me.

I was ruffied my on my first college party, second day in the dorms at 18 y/o, I remember
a guy in my dorm driving myself and a few others in MY CAR to the party (huh? Not a big drinker, why would I do this?) and til this day I remember another creepy guy on another wing of our dorm giving "the two fingers pointing at his eyes, then then to the driver> and then him pointing at me. Long story short, they might have been ruffied , or whatever drug they use these days to incapacitate them to do their crime.

 

[PacoElFlaco]

There has to be DNA unless the perp wore special meat cutting gloves to keep from cutting himself during this frenzy, How diabolical would it be to go as far as getting these special gloves

Why does everyone insist the killer must have cut himself? The cases where there are self-injuries involve a knife without a handguard, like a kitchen knife. The Kabar style of knife cops are looking for has a handguard. The Kabar was designed by specialists for US Marines to use in hand-to-hand combat. The leather grip is not likely to become slippery if wet with blood. It is designed to minimize the chance of self-injury. The Marines certainly didn't want their troops having to get their hands sewn up every time they used their Kabars.

They might have a bruise on the heel of their hand from the guard impacting them, but that's about it.

 

[otto]

I keep going back to what the coroner said: that based on her investigation, the drips were consistent with blood and correlated to a bedroom someone(s) was killed in. Wish I had transcription skills!

I’m directionally challenged under the best circumstances!

Edit: I thought you had the third floor bathroom on this earlier? Or have I lost my mind? LOL

No, you didn't lose your mind. I'm still trying to figure it out.

 

[JohnBull]

Otto, I think it just caught the photographer’s eye as nothing else stood out and seemed macabre. Nothing out of place around the house or visible blood trail or steps on the patio or ground. It became a meme, IMO.
It looks like rust or some chemical substance or even glue. I think I also see residue along the gap between the house and foundation in one of the new close ups.
Is the pipe a water or gas line?

I'm leaning toward actual blood on this one. There was obviously a lot of bleeding, and houses no matter how well constructed aren't hermetically sealed. The blood is going to flow where gravity takes it, which in this case would be under the wall moulding, down the inner wall between the flooring and the end of the joists, and between the wall sheathing and the foundation. There's been a lot of discussion on this point, but I honestly don't see how it bears on the case. It's simply one of the gruesome aspects of a murder such as this.

 

[JohnBull]

Why does everyone insist the killer must have cut himself?

I don't know, but that's not my take on it. These people weren't confronted and most likely didn't struggle, which makes it far more likely that the killer wasn't making any spastic, uncoordinated movements with the weapon. Others have pointed out the possibility of heavy gloves or metal gauntlets being used. So while it's possible he might have cut himself, it's by no means a certainty.

 

[Ed Teach]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Let’s try to narrow down the murder weapon the best we can.

According to MPD websites:

• Local businesses were contacted to determine if a fixed-blade knife had been recently purchased.”

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

What are the characteristic of a fixed-blade knife:

A fixed-blade knives have a blade that extends into the handle of the knife. The blade can be either full tang or partial tang, meaning that the blade can either extend the entire length of the handle or partially into the handle.

A fixed-blade knife is without folding mechanism. A kitchen knife is most commonly example of a fixed-blade.

Now let’s take a look at the coroner characteristic of the knife:

“Coroner says University of Idaho students were murdered with large knife”

“"They were all murdered from a stabbing through a larger knife," coroner Cathy Mabbutt told CBS News. “

<modsnip: Images removed due to no link to source>

Coroner says University of Idaho students were murdered with large knife

The city of Moscow remains in shock as little information has been released about the deaths of four students.

www.cbsnews.com

Moscow police appear to be searching for a “Rambo”-style knife (store manager)

“Police have visited the store more than once to ask whether the retailer sold anyone Ka-Bar brand knives, which are also known as K bar knives.”

“Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell told the Statesman on Thursday that detectives visited several local hardware stores that may carry “fixed-blade type knives,” but that they weren’t solely asking about Ka-Bar knives.”
We can only surmise that K-Bar (fixed-blade) have the closest characteristics of the murder weapon.

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268833397.html

So it appears that the murder weapon has the following characteristics:

- Fixed-blade
- Large
- Rambo style knife (as per store manager)
- Could be a Kbar brand

An example of a large fixed-blade knives:
There are various fixed-blade style, Bowie have the similar features to the murder weapon described by the coroner (large) and the store manager (Rambo style) or combat type of knife.

Bowie Style Fixed Blade - Bowie Knives are large knives, usually worn on a leather/ sheath.

Fixed-Blade brand:

- The KA-BAR brand designed the Becker BK-9 (they have this one in Amazon 9 inch blade for $130)

- Buck Knives 119 Special 6 inch (this one is a little cheaper $69) this is not Ka-Bar brand.

- Tactical Bowie Survival Hunting Rambo Bushcraft Knife with Kydex Sheath Military Combat Fixed Blade, with Non-Slip Handle, for Camping, Hunting, and Adventure, 12.2 this is the cheapest knife out of the 3, it’s $21.44 and it’s the biggest 12.2 inch

“Idaho State Police told the Statesman on Thursday that detectives visited several local hardware stores that may carry “fixed-blade type knives,” but that they weren’t solely asking about Ka-Bar knives.”

I am leaning towards the cheapest knifes with the biggest blades. But we shall see.

Just knowing the characteristic of the murder weapon may help aid the investigation. The killer friends, acquaintances or a family member May remember him carrying this weapon.

On the subject of knife wound forensics...

There are two classic types of penetration stabbing wounds. One is an elongated diamond shape and the other is an elongated pyramid shape. The diamond shape is made by a double edged blade. The pyramid shape is made by a single edged blade. It would be interesting to learn what the nature of the stab wounds were. Perhaps the wounds were diamonds and this is why they were out asking about fixed blade "combat/Kabar" type knives as many combat knives are double edged. I don't know just speculation on my part. The Fairbain Sykes dagger is a classic example of this double edged weapon and makes for an efficient, fast, and very deadly weapon. Most kabars are single edged however there are some that have another edge on the back of the blade called a false edge which makes the knife a pseudo double edged weapon.

Personally I am still not comfortable with media and everyone saying it was a Kabar that was used. No one but the police and the perpetrator know for sure and maybe the police don't know this. Maybe that is why they have corrected this to "fixed blade knife" like twice now I believe.

 

[WildWest]

A man that was at the Corner Club shares his perceptions of the women there that night, and how they seemed to catch a lot of attention from men there. One visibly drunk. I imagine the club has cameras and LE obtained the footage. ​

Read what he says here:

Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

Unearthed blueprints and layout plans of the off-campus house where four Idaho college students were brutally stabbed to death reveal where each of the friends were found slain earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I believe that, two young attractive girls, no doubt male patrons were talking about them.

 

[willyengland]

The guy who gestures that the girls are leaving to the hooded guy they walked up with. Yea that guy. Heavy set. Tan hat and tan zip up jacket. Beard. Very suspicious and odd behavior around M and K. MOO He arrives before them alone and leave on foot after them in the same direction. It could be nothing.

In the interview he says:
'I was there, and I have a little girl, and at the end of the day a dad's going to go through Thanksgiving without a daughter and that really hurts,'

 

[Sunny Texas]

With regards to the house schematics that were in thread # 10, it says “blood stains” on the right side (near the rear) of the house. This refers to the blood drippings on the outside of the house, right? That is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen. This area looks like it would be under Kaylee’s room. Does this seem correct?

No. The bloodstains were right underneath the room said to be X's room on the 2nd level. K was on the 3rd level, likely in the bedroom directly over the kitchen.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Has it been confirmed to be blood?

No. The closest thing to confirmation was that the coroner said the exterior dripping in that area was consistent with the crime scene inside.

 

[PacoElFlaco]

Just maybe the perp(s) is more experienced in people handling, maybe a military background, law enforcement possibly and older than the victims and is confident they can handle the situation.

Does not gibe with the "young, creepy loner" profile I have heard ex-FBI personnel talk about.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Apologies if I missed this but can someone fill in Ethan and Xana’s timeline? I’ve read they were at a party until around 9 pm and home by 1:45 but has LE said anything about that 4 to 5 hour period in between?

X's father said he talked on the phone with her around midnight. LE says they arrived home around 1:45, but not word as to where they were between 9 and 1:45. In an earlier thread, someone linked a report that a nearby cam showed X & E arriving home as late as 2:15, but I have not seen that elsewhere. Perhaps they were in Ethan's room or with his brother or sister somewhere.