ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

[Zinn]

I can’t imagine a more annoying job than taking orders from drunk college students after bars close.

That guy seems great at his job. He also appeared to recognize Kaylee, greeting her with “Welcome back” or something like that.

 

[animaye.c]

Is it possible the target was a survivor? Hence why name not released who called or their locations in town that day? I noticed the police site summary states “no named suspects at this time” not “no known”. Also the map area expansion. This seems crucial. The police also mentioned canvassing areas in town, in last update. I would love to see these routed from the house. Edited to add official link Moscow, ID | Official Website

I have thought about this. Assuming the house is dark at the time, it would be hard to tell the 4 blonde girls apart. IMO though if it was targeted with any amount of planning involved you'd think they would atleast learn the layout and room locations.

 

[animaye.c]

Being not american, can anyone answer a knife question for me. Would it have to be a pretty quality expensive knife? After seeing the coroner say the wounds were chest area it made me think, a mid range knife would surely break? Is it common for people to have decent level knives or just hunters etc. Where i live its illegal to have any kind of bladed weapon on you in public so its baffling for me

 

[Finders_Keepers]

There seems to be a lot of criticism, veiled or otherwise, at LE and local police.

I think it’s fair to say that Moscow PD probably are overwhelm by this case. That’s no criticism of them, they haven’t had a murder in 7 years and are now dealing with a highly complex multiple homicide whilst being simultaneously thrust into the National media spotlight. This has hit them out of the blue.

But - The FBI have thrown a ton of resource at this. 22 detectives landed in Moscow plus 20 remote is a significant effort. Aside from the behavioural unit no breakdown has been done but I would assume they have provided skills and expertise specific to the crime.

As such I don’t put too much belief into a bungled investigation - And some of the very basic suggestions in the PC yesterday like phone or wi if pings - I can’t imagine for one minute they aren’t exploring all of these areas.

The one thing they can’t reverse though is a bungled crime scene. No evidence of it but anything that happened in those first few hours after discovery in the house that caused contamination or destruction of key evidence by and large can’t be undone.Not suggesting it has but I have comfort in the quality of the investigation with the FBI involved - The unknown is did the less experienced local LE do everything they could upon discovery to preserve the scene

 

[Msl1966]

I had a stalker for about four months in college. There were 3 occasions where he was in my apartment parking lot just standing, 1 occasion he was seen by neighbors peering into my bedroom window, and the final straw when I looked over at my sliding glass does and he was standing on my patio. I was 21 at the time. When he was seen or I saw him, I called my upstairs neighbor or another neighbor called me. We called the police on the last two occasions. As an adult (now 56) I can’t believe I didn’t realize the seriousness of it. Until he was on my patio, I stayed there and slept with a bat. After that event I moved out the next day. I realize with social media and so much crazy crime these days, such a situation would be probably taken more seriously. My whole point is that at that age, even though I was very careful and aware of safety, I still just didn’t see the situation for what is was at the time.

Can someone clarify some facts again for me…
1.) Do we know that both bedrooms were awful crime scenes? I realize the both bedrooms were a crime scenes, but could one have been visibly gory and the other not? Do we happen to know the both or a gory from any of the facts we have I understand it is highly likely. But have we heard it as a fact?
2.) Four of the girls look sooo much alike, a distant stalker would have trouble telling them apart sleeping in the dark. Unless he personally knew them, he would’ve had to watch them from a distance for a long time.
3.) It makes total sense that the hoodie guy was just helping them stay safe if they were drunk. It is my understanding that they walked from the bar to the food truck. I hope I’m not mistaken on that, but it has been hard to keep up with the speed of the posts He either came with them or saw them in parking lot and kept an eye on them until they walked back to the Uber. Then he left. If that is the case, what a great guy. Wish more people were like him.
4.) I think the timing was planned. What better time to commit a crime like that than right before half the town goes home for thanksgiving. Perfect explanation of why you are leaving town, taking time off work, etc. Gives plenty of time to take evidence home with you, destroy it (a Bon fire or fire pit would not seem abnormal at all), and not be suddenly questioned.

 

[The OG]

I don’t think they’ve given any indication at all as to who the target(s) might have been, or even if “targeted” refers to individuals rather than something like “everyone at the neighborhood party house” or “sorority girls and frat bros” etc.

I think most people have focused on one or more of the victims being targeted because they were the occupants killed while the survivors were spared, but I agree that does not necessarily exclude the survivors from possibly having been targeted.

I think most people have focused on Kaylee because she was the unattached person of the four victims and had a recent break-up, and her family has been vocal about her whereabouts and communications that evening and introduced the grub truck video that some viewers suspected included potentially relevant details. Secondarily, people have focused on both Kaylee and Maddie because, in addition to the grub truck observations, there’s a presumption the two were on the highest floor and could have been spared if the killer entered on either the first or second floor (another presumption at this point) and the target was primarily Ethan and/or Xana. But I don’t think LE has revealed anything at all to suggest Kaylee and/or Maddie were more likely targets than anyone else at the residence, including the surviving roommates.

I find it odd that so little has been revealed about the whereabouts of Ethan and Xana, and to a lesser degree the surviving roommates, but they might only have revealed comprehensive details of Kaylee’s and Maddie’s whereabouts due to the grub truck video being released through other channels, whipping up questions and rumors that needed to be addressed.

Also, many of the proposed (here, not by LE) motives of jealousy could apply to KG being "targeted" with her new ride (albeit pre-owned), new job, graduation, etc. IMO, her location in the house is the most telling that she and/or MM were "the targets". Much less has been speculated and discussed about MM. I hope we haven't gotten blinders on about the possibility MM was the target.

 

[Balthazar]

Just a late thought. If this was a targeted attack, Ethan could not have been the target as he didn't live there. Kaylee was not supposed to be there. That leaves Xana and Madison.

Saw someone comment on previous thread about how terrifying it is that the killer may have showered there and cleaned themselves up.

My question is what do you think is more risky/likely for them to have done?

Stayed and showered risking running into someone or someone potentially having heard and called 911.

Or

Left covered in blood or at least with their bloody clothes in tow and risk being discovered with evidence on them, or leaving a trail of blood/scent?

I am at a loss.

Well, you have actually brought up something else I'm wondering about. There are no evidence flags in the yard or parking area. Police claim they don't know how the person got in and out although there is evidence markers on the sliding glass door. So...why have they not brought in bloodhounds to try to trace a scent in the yard or on the parking pad and see where it leads?

 

[brooks]

I predict this will be an unsolved mystery.

 

[QB2022]

Wild theory but I was watching an episode of a TV show where there was an attack and it got me thinking.

Could there have been a 5th person upstairs who was hiding and potentially witnessed it? Perhaps they heard the first two, hid in a closet/under a bed and then remained until they were found. Could explain why certain things are being very carefully worded so as to not make the perpetrator aware someone witnessed more?

 

[annalieschen]

This is my theory:

The perp was a self-loathing loner, college-aged but never amounted to much in life (high school education only), obsessed with pretty girls online that he could never get with, lives in a fantasy world in which he's friends with the women he stalks online, incel-type, routinely (sexually) harasses women/girls online, get's angry when they do not reciprocate his advances, was not taught boundaries... sort of a mix of Ted Bundy/Elliot Rodger.

The victims did NOT know this person but he knew them (through online stalking).

MOO, don't come for me.

 

[AngTxGal]

There has to be DNA unless the perp wore special meat cutting gloves to keep from cutting himself during this frenzy, How diabolical would it be to go as far as getting these special gloves

If there is DNA from the perp they won’t know until they find it.
The challenge will be finding it in a bloody crime scene. Where would you sample if the scene is covered in victim’s blood?

The most recent presser said they have 103 pieces of evidence- wow that is not a lot if a single blood drop on the floor is counted as 1. I would guess there are hundreds to thousands of blood spots spattered on floor and walls. It could be that those are together captured in one of the 4000 some odd photos? A photo doesn’t check for blood mixture of DNA from victim and perp.

And then there is the holiday, if there are people who may have seen something, they may have gone home and if they return to campus then they will need to come forward, if they stay home through Jan then someone will have to track them down.

Let’s pray he wasn’t so crafty to wear gloves and cut his hands, and there is all kinds of evidence of all types from blood to fibers and hair.
Let’s pray X got a handful of hair and scratched his face significantly so his wounds are visible To anyone.
Let’s pray he pet the dog, and touched door frames, and tripped on the stairs, and has his own pets and their hair is on his clothing, and he himself is a dirty hairy shedding beast, and also has a fury jacket and cap and dirt on his boots he tracked inside so they find him and do so quickly!!
JMO

Prayers for the family and friends, school and community

 

[Chestnutsunfish]

After going down the rabbit hole I’m back on the grub truck video. There is another person in it that makes me uneasy.. Not the friend in the hoodie who was there with them. Anyone else rewatched this?

 

[DizzyB]

Does that mean it is blood on the exterior of the house, from the bedroom that faces the street (off the living room)? Is it a building materials stain on the side of the house? Why did a reporter think it is blood?

View attachment 382324

View attachment 382323

Based on this layout,X’s room has a closet on the wall where the supposed blood is on the outside of the house. It appears that the bed would not fit on that wall, it would have to be opposite.

If X&E were found in or near the bed, I think it would be impossible for that to be blood on the other side of the room. If it is blood, it appears a victim must have been found up against that wall and not in bed. Unless the interior layouts are no longer accurate, which is entirely possible.

 

[Lovemycat]

After going down the rabbit hole I’m back on the grub truck video. There is another person in it that makes me uneasy.. Not the friend in the hoodie who was there with them. Anyone else rewatched this?

The bigger guy that said he was showing someone new in town the area but appeared to be by himself just talking to a few different people?
Although I don’t think he’s involved he is pretty weird and kinda creepy.

 

[lello2]

IMO: Something else that I am wondering is whether the killer turned the lights on in the bedrooms at all. To have chosen a knife which as some have mentioned, indicates a level of intimacy and maybe piquerism, combined with the likely messiness of the aftermath / possible indication that one of the victims was particularly targeted - would suggest to me that the killer would have wanted to be able to see what they were doing to some degree and it is very unlikely they would have been able to hold a torch whilst carrying out such a physical task. I know that some bedrooms may have had fairy lights but it seems to me at least plausible that neighbours or cameras could have picked up on some lights being turned on/off in the house between 3-6 if that were the case. Also there has been some talk of the killer locking the bedroom doors after the killings which has not been confirmed but if there are locks on doors IMO there is a possibility the killer may have locked themselves in with the victims to ensure they wouldn’t be accidentally disturbed.

In addition - anyone with an upstairs neighbour knows how the tiniest noise above you, even just footsteps, can be amplified. Based on the latest understanding of E&X being in the smaller room on the second floor, which isn’t underneath either of the rooms on the third floor - could explain why they might not have heard anything from upstairs even if the killer was able to silence the victims quickly. Especially as from pictures of the house from towards the back make it look almost like two separate buildings. Having said that - they might have been disturbed by the sound of footsteps on the stairs or in the living room. Thought I’d just mention because there’s been a lot of talk about potential screams, but also good to think about how sound of a person might travel around a building in other ways.

Finally - another point is that X was stated as having fought back, but I think this came just from her father and not officially confirmed (although pls correct me if I’m wrong). According to the coroner in the link below some of the victims had defensive wounds (so we can assume X was one of them) - but that could just indicate raised arms as she realised what was happening, not necessarily a significant struggle.

Knife used in Idaho murders: University victim’s injuries show attack was ‘personal’

Autopsy findings revealed that Xana Kernodle, 20, Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Kaylee Goncalves, 21, were all stabbed multiple times with a large knife

www.independent.co.uk

Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

Unearthed blueprints and layout plans of the off-campus house where four Idaho college students were brutally stabbed to death reveal where each of the friends were found slain earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Police have said that this was "targeted". I understand that to mean that one of the victims was the target. I'm guessing that the reason police say that it was targeted is that one of the victims had more, or different, injuries. Maybe he spent a little more time with one of the victims. That's just a guess.

If the culprit entered the house via the kitchen sliding door (red crime scene tape on door), and if his target was on the third floor (easy to see into the bedrooms from hill behind house), then perhaps he thought it was best to kill everyone on the second floor before going to the third floor - to reduce chances of being caught. Eliminate witnesses or anyone who could run out of the house before the culprit did. Numbers 5 and 6 are interchangeable.

View attachment 382271

 

[sunflowermomma]

It is unrealistic to think that the one tiny fraction of their night that was captured on video just happens to catch their killer on camera. All this speculation about random people at the food truck that know each other in a tiny college town is silly.

 

[Brunette]

There seems to be a lot of criticism, veiled or otherwise, at LE and local police.

I think it’s fair to say that Moscow PD probably are overwhelm by this case. That’s no criticism of them, they haven’t had a murder in 7 years and are now dealing with a highly complex multiple homicide whilst being simultaneously thrust into the National media spotlight. This has hit them out of the blue.

But - The FBI have thrown a ton of resource at this. 22 detectives landed in Moscow plus 20 remote is a significant effort. Aside from the behavioural unit no breakdown has been done but I would assume they have provided skills and expertise specific to the crime.

As such I don’t put too much belief into a bungled investigation - And some of the very basic suggestions in the PC yesterday like phone or wi if pings - I can’t imagine for one minute they aren’t exploring all of these areas.

The one thing they can’t reverse though is a bungled crime scene. No evidence of it but anything that happened in those first few hours after discovery in the house that caused contamination or destruction of key evidence by and large can’t be undone.Not suggesting it has but I have comfort in the quality of the investigation with the FBI involved - The unknown is did the less experienced local LE do everything they could upon discovery to preserve the scene

Agreed. It’s been less than 2 weeks. There are four victims and massive amounts of evidence to process. Labs can take ages, unfortunately. There are no obvious suspects like a Jodi Arias stating investigators in the face. I think it’s pretty unreasonable to expect that they’ve made an arrest by now - I think we are all hoping for that, but I’m not shocked there isn’t one. I’m sure we’ve all seen cold case documentaries about crimes like this taking decades to solve until there’s a hit on DNA/prints.

Not to say they’ve handled everything perfectly because I just don’t know enough to say that - I don’t think any of us do.

 

[Zinn]

The bigger guy that said he was showing someone new in town the area but appeared to be by himself just talking to a few different people?
Although I don’t think he’s involved he is pretty weird and kinda creepy.

It’s clear in the video that he arrived with two people, probably a man a woman. Handed off a drink to the probable woman after ordering and tried to hand off a drink to the probable man but the probable man was busy hugging someone in a little reunion. I think he did successfully hand it off at some point. He did not appear to be alone.

 

[SMK777]

This is my theory:

The perp was a self-loathing loner, college-aged but never amounted to much in life (high school education only), obsessed with pretty girls online that he could never get with, lives in a fantasy world in which he's friends with the women he stalks online, incel-type, routinely (sexually) harasses women/girls online, get's angry when they do not reciprocate his advances, was not taught boundaries... sort of a mix of Ted Bundy/Elliot Rodger.

The victims did NOT know this person but he knew them (through online stalking).

MOO, don't come for me.

That could very well be true. But it also makes me think that this person perhaps was unknown by anyone, has possibly fled the area, has no prior record, and may not be found.

 

[BigTex]

Being not american, can anyone answer a knife question for me. Would it have to be a pretty quality expensive knife? After seeing the coroner say the wounds were chest area it made me think, a mid range knife would surely break? Is it common for people to have decent level knives or just hunters etc. Where i live its illegal to have any kind of bladed weapon on you in public so its baffling for me

No the knife itself whether it’s a true kabar or any fixed blade knife wouldn’t be expensive or difficult to obtain or uncommon. its been talked about in the threads in detail but wanted to just to simply answer your question