ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

[everybodhi]

Snipped/ So...why have they not brought in bloodhounds to try to trace a scent in the yard or on the parking pad and see where it leads?

The photo of the search dog posted looks like a German Shepherd

 

[Txbarfly]

I really do think this person knows what they were doing for the most part and knew their method of killing via stabbing would be incredibly low-risk at waking anyone else up.

Imo, the killer definitely knew there were multiple people in the house. Unless he was watching from inside or out them all return homeHow would he have known there were 6 and not 10 or 12 with last minute friends crashing for the night. There wMaybe he knew one or more or all of them. Maybe he had been there before, or can’t grasp the mindset of a killer who enters a house with

Okay. There were 6 people in the house. It feels incredibly risky to go into a house with that number of people in it with the risk of someone screaming , locking their door and dialing 911, or just generally being overpowered. Does this lead anyone to think this was more than 1 individual? Even if the killer didn’t know that there were 6 people , it seems that there were many cars parked outside which would indicate at least more than 1-2.

 

[Balthazar]

Why the perp was likely local or localish...
Perp knew the house....

One cannot stake out the house on Google. 500-718 Queen Rd · 500-718 Queen Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 (No matter how you turn it around, you can't see the sliding doors)
Home looks meh...from Street View and shows lower level and would not appeal to someone wanting to break in.

One does not know that there are sliding doors etc...
Zillow also does not show the sliding doors.
Whoever did this, knew about the sliding doors and was likely familiar with the area. Likely didn't just "meet them on Saturday night and follow them home" Perp was at least somewhat familiar with the residence.

There are photos that clearly show you can see the back of that house including 2nd and third floor windows and doors from the parking lot of the apartment buildings which are to the left and somewhat behind the house. You can see one here - scroll down to the third photo: Idaho police expanding crime scene at site of college students' murders

 

[gravegemini]

Based on this layout,X’s room has a closet on the wall where the supposed blood is on the outside of the house. It appears that the bed would not fit on that wall, it would have to be opposite.

If X&E were found in or near the bed, I think it would be impossible for that to be blood on the other side of the room. If it is blood, it appears a victim must have been found up against that wall and not in bed. Unless the interior layouts are no longer accurate, which is entirely possible.

I believe the photo attached is the bedroom X and E were in with the “blood” stain in question being on the outside of the wall to the right of the closet in the photo. I agree that a bed cannot fit here, but wonder if one of the victims ended up against the wall after defending themselves or trying to get up and run from bed after the attack?

The coroner was quoted saying something like this “appears to be blood” - anyone know if this was confirmed/debunked?

Regardless I don’t think this fact is important for solving the case, it’s a nice to know (all IMO).

 

[apples12]

I can’t imagine a more annoying job than taking orders from drunk college students after bars close.

Did you notice the large knife at the very end? Used to open a bag of cheese!

 

[creamybeanwater]

Hello all, "new" poster here. Actually just different account since I couldn't remember my old info....I've followed the boards and lurked and would occasionally post way back. Followed Jodi Arias case and Jessica Ridgeway since I was about 5 miles down the road from all that and Dylan Redwine since that happened in my hometown.

Anyway. I keep wondering, if they have reason to feel this was targeted and the general assumption people go to there is potentially picking a person(s) to link that to....What if it was based on Kaylee but they did intend to kill both other girls, or at least Maddie, as well?
This is simply a random thought that might be stupid, so forgive me ahead of time. I'm just rolling things in my mind as I've been reading posts and thinking of this since I heard about it. Obviously not a ton to go on, so just a lot of speculation at any angle

If Kaylee had recently been broken up with her boyfriend, is it out of the realm of possibility to wonder if perhaps during this time apart she had a flirtation or dalliace with someone else? Now, this is completely judgement free and just a thought.
But what if during this time apart, she spent time with or even just was talking to someone from the area or a neighboring ahead. Maybe a little bit of a rebound or just for fun thing, knowing she's leaving anyway. Maybe she told her closest friends/roommates and not family, because it wasn't serious and there's so much history and obvious love for her boyfriend. Could they or just Maddie have encouraged her to stick with J in the end and maybe she cut ties or tried with someone else and they took it very badly and knew it was also encouraged by a friend or the close roommates so they ended up in the crossfire?

I wonder if he/they went there after she and Maddie and maybe Xana, and Ethan was just unfortunately there. I wonder if it seems targeted to a person or people because maybe Ethan wasn't as injured because he wasn't a target and honestly, just due to size was potentially a harder attack? Who knows, maybe they were all aquatinted with the person and had told him themselves to back off or just that she was going to end up with J anyway.....in a friendly way, not in a way that would have been that noted by anyone else around or talked about.

Maybe he attended a get together there and therefore knew the layout? Maybe he visited with just one person and got a house tour? Maybe he looked it up online in planning things out and how to get in and out and gone pretty unnoticed?
Is it also stupid to wonder if anything like chloroform or something like that was used to help subdue or keep them quieter to make less of a scene? I know that doesn't work like the movies, but if someone was sleeping or tipsy, might not take much to get them out?
Idk much about that, so it's probably off base.

Again, just a random wondering in my mind.
Fact is even outside anything police say or that can be found on social media, there's always things in anyone's life that they keep close to the chest that they don't share or want seen. You can share seemingly everything on social media but there's more than the image you choose to project. Not saying that in a bad way, but maybe things are kept back because of wanting to protect something, hide it, or just simply have something you do keep private for yourself. From that point, there could be scenarios to do with any of them really, that no one or just the core group, were aware of.

Or it could be a random whacko, which the way the world is, is just as likely really.
Thanks for reading through this probably useless rambling by me!!

 

[flakesofsnow]

Is that Zillow photo shown the third floor though? Look at attic space entrance in ceiling. It looks like the third floor imo where you have it. But maybe I need caffeine it’s early here lol

I said early on that the perp could have been waiting in the house in the attic or knee walls. That means that the perp may not be seen. I suppose he or she could still be there but that would seem unlikely.

 

[Balthazar]

Thanks everyone for confirming there was a pic with a tracking dog soon after the murders. @Cedarsage, If it is blood this dog would've probably hit on it. It does look like a drop of blood, but same thing was noticed on the porch area and it was likely a bloom from a plant. ​

University of Idaho murders: threat still possible without any suspects in custody, police say

Moscow Police Chief James Fry says there is still 'possibly' a threat to the community after four students were murdered on Nov. 15 and police do not have anyone in custody.

news.yahoo.com

View attachment 382245

That this tracking dog WAS there and yet we see no evidence flags is confounding.

 

[Emerald1328]

Kaylee’s dad, brother and sister have an interview to CNN last night and gave a few new pieces of info:

-Kaylee’s sister says they got home at 1:56am and she’s frustrated with the police stating 1:45am on their timeline as those extra minutes matter when it comes to video surveillance, dash cam, etc.
-Kaylee’s sister is adamant that if Kaylee had noticed that she had a stalker that she would have told them. She said Kaylee would FaceTime her for hours almost every single day. “She wasn’t scared to get us involved in her life in any capacity like that.”
-Police aren’t keeping them updated more than the public, no additional communication to them beyond what they see on the website and hear in the press conferences
-Kaylee’s dad said that there were volunteers looking around the crime scene and found different things
-Police shared with him that expanding the crime scene may have more to do with keeping the cameras out than it actually does with evidence gathering
-The host says the mother of one of the surviving roommates told a reporter that the roommates heard something that night <I don’t remember reading this in MSM, does anyone have a link?> He asked if they have heard that from any of the families. Kaylee’s sister said that they did hear those “rumors” but none of that has ever been confirmed to them.
-They have not spoken with the surviving roommates
-They confirmed the roommates were on the first floor
-Kaylee’s father has been told there was just ONE of them that was targeted; however, police have been vague with them about that (and pretty much everything else he said). The police haven’t shared who the target was.
-They don’t find it significant that Kaylee’s ex boyfriend wasn’t on the website list of people cleared - they said Maddie’s boyfriend isn’t on it, neither are any associates of Xana and Ethan, so they don’t worry about it

 

[pamelado2]

The mapped location was correct. 1122 King Rd. may be the correct address, but it "fronts" on Queen.

The post you quoted was explaining that the killer could use the correct address to see the sliding doors and all the pics on Zillow. Using Queen doesn't allow you to see anything of value besides the fact that it's the wrong address and also won't let you see what's on Zillow.

So yeah, he could have been invited to one of their parties before but if he wanted to he could look at Zillow and social media to figure it out.

 

[Balthazar]

Hi all, just catching up after the presser earlier today-- and a particular statement about what's missing, or not seen, at the house has been festering. Here's a perhaps...

What's "missing" at the scene is an occupant for the empty bedroom on the 2nd floor. Is it possible they were all in the process of finding a new roommate? Or maybe even two, since K was relocating and a 3rd floor bedroom was also becoming available. This activity would span the entirety of the month, I imagine. I would also involve new people coming by and checking over the property. (I hope LE is considering this angle.)

My gut has made me feel K's departure, relocation, and exit from the immediate circle of friends may have been a trigger for someone, but today's presser statement underscored the probability that there were personal selections/rejections being sifted through by this entire group of friends.

Is there someone out there who may be feeling betrayed, disgruntled, and at the end of a housing tether?

JMO

This seems to be an all-female house. But we don't know who used to inhabit that extra room on the second floor or if they had been looking for a new roommate yet since the next semester would start in January.

 

[everybodhi]

IMO: Something else that I am wondering is whether the killer turned the lights on in the bedrooms at all. To have chosen a knife which as some have mentioned, indicates a level of intimacy and maybe piquerism, combined with the likely messiness of the aftermath / possible indication that one of the victims was particularly targeted - would suggest to me that the killer would have wanted to be able to see what they were doing to some degree and it is very unlikely they would have been able to hold a torch whilst carrying out such a physical task. I know that some bedrooms may have had fairy lights but it seems to me at least plausible that neighbours or cameras could have picked up on some lights being turned on/off in the house between 3-6 if that were the case. Also there has been some talk of the killer locking the bedroom doors after the killings which has not been confirmed but if there are locks on doors IMO there is a possibility the killer may have locked themselves in with the victims to ensure they wouldn’t be accidentally disturbed.

In addition - anyone with an upstairs neighbour knows how the tiniest noise above you, even just footsteps, can be amplified. Based on the latest understanding of E&X being in the smaller room on the second floor, which isn’t underneath either of the rooms on the third floor - could explain why they might not have heard anything from upstairs even if the killer was able to silence the victims quickly. Especially as from pictures of the house from towards the back make it look almost like two separate buildings. Having said that - they might have been disturbed by the sound of footsteps on the stairs or in the living room. Thought I’d just mention because there’s been a lot of talk about potential screams, but also good to think about how sound of a person might travel around a building in other ways.

Finally - another point is that X was stated as having fought back, but I think this came just from her father and not officially confirmed (although pls correct me if I’m wrong). According to the coroner in the link below some of the victims had defensive wounds (so we can assume X was one of them) - but that could just indicate raised arms as she realised what was happening, not necessarily a significant struggle.

Knife used in Idaho murders: University victim’s injuries show attack was ‘personal’

Autopsy findings revealed that Xana Kernodle, 20, Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Kaylee Goncalves, 21, were all stabbed multiple times with a large knife

www.independent.co.uk

Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

Unearthed blueprints and layout plans of the off-campus house where four Idaho college students were brutally stabbed to death reveal where each of the friends were found slain earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Looking at photos of the house in your link, the first floor is built cut into the slope of the land so the much of the second floor isn’t even above those lower bedrooms, it’s above solid hillside. The back wall to the first floor is built against dirt/rock, probably with a reinforced concrete retaining wall.
In my experience staying in houses built into a hillside like that, sound wouldn’t travel well through that hillside into those first floor bedrooms.
If they were in the second floor bedroom by the patio, there’s no way sound would travel to that first floor.
The third floor, the same.

 

[CuriousGeorga]

Something was off in that house when Kaylee and Maddie arrived home. Was something taken or moved that belonged to Kaylee? Could it be she thought it was her ex-boyfriend who did it so she repeatedly called him? If that was the case, then it may likely be that the killer was already in the house. He could have came through an unlocked sliding door when they were still gone and hid once they arrived. Then one of the victims proceeded to lock the glass door before they went to bed. Possibly a nightly safety ritual. That’s when the killer began his murder spree. When he stabbed sleeping Chapin, he woke Kernodle. He quickly left the mortally wounded Chapin and fought to kill off Kernodle. Chapin crawled away on the floor to yell for help. This is why his body was farther away. Unfortunately his lungs were punctured and him being on his stomach didn’t help with getting enough air to scream for help. The killer finished Kernodle and her boyfriend. After finishing the others, he left through a door. One that needs a key code to enter but AUTOLOCKS after closing/exiting. That’s why every door was locked.

Maybe I missed this. Was it announced the sliding door was also locked?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Kaylee’s dad, brother and sister have an interview to CNN last night and gave a few new pieces of info:

-Kaylee’s sister says they got home at 1:56am and she’s frustrated with the police stating 1:45am on their timeline as those extra minutes matter when it comes to video surveillance, dash cam, etc.
-Kaylee’s sister is adamant that if Kaylee had noticed that she had a stalker that she would have told them. She said Kaylee would FaceTime her for hours almost every single day. “She wasn’t scared to get us involved in her life in any capacity like that.”
-Police aren’t keeping them updated more than the public, no additional communication to them beyond what they see on the website and hear in the press conferences
-Kaylee’s dad said that there were volunteers looking around the crime scene and found different things
-Police shared with him that expanding the crime scene may have more to do with keeping the cameras out than it actually does with evidence gathering
-The host says the mother of one of the surviving roommates told a reporter that the roommates heard something that night <I don’t remember reading this in MSM, does anyone have a link?> He asked if they have heard that from any of the families. Kaylee’s sister said that they did hear those “rumors” but none of that has ever been confirmed to them.
-They have not spoken with the surviving roommates
-They confirmed the roommates were on the first floor
-Kaylee’s father has been told there was just ONE of them that was targeted; however, police have been vague with them about that (and pretty much everything else he said). The police haven’t shared who the target was.
-They don’t find it significant that Kaylee’s ex boyfriend wasn’t on the website list of people cleared - they said Maddie’s boyfriend isn’t on it, neither are any associates of Xana and Ethan, so they don’t worry about it

Volunteers looking around the crime scene?

JMO but of course they won't get inside information. I know they are in the midst of deep grief and seemingly conducting their own investigation and talking A LOT. That's why families don't get much info.

 

[HeyDude]

There seems to be a lot of criticism, veiled or otherwise, at LE and local police.

I think it’s fair to say that Moscow PD probably are overwhelm by this case. That’s no criticism of them, they haven’t had a murder in 7 years and are now dealing with a highly complex multiple homicide whilst being simultaneously thrust into the National media spotlight. This has hit them out of the blue.

But - The FBI have thrown a ton of resource at this. 22 detectives landed in Moscow plus 20 remote is a significant effort. Aside from the behavioural unit no breakdown has been done but I would assume they have provided skills and expertise specific to the crime.

As such I don’t put too much belief into a bungled investigation - And some of the very basic suggestions in the PC yesterday like phone or wi if pings - I can’t imagine for one minute they aren’t exploring all of these areas.

The one thing they can’t reverse though is a bungled crime scene. No evidence of it but anything that happened in those first few hours after discovery in the house that caused contamination or destruction of key evidence by and large can’t be undone.Not suggesting it has but I have comfort in the quality of the investigation with the FBI involved - The unknown is did the less experienced local LE do everything they could upon discovery to preserve the scene

I share your thoughts completey on this and don't envy the teams working on this case around the clock. While we spend our holiday speculating without consequences, their successes and failures impact the families involved and the community.

My theory on their initial handling of the crime scene is that it was staged to look like a murder suicide. MOO is that this would explain why they were so quick to declare no threat to the public. A different knife could have been used for this, since the murder weapon hasn't been found, without that being recognized right away. I might be giving them too much slack with this theory, but I'm inclined to give the benefit of doubt.

 

[PoppyJune]

I’m heavily leaning towards the killer(s) 1) already being in the house when the victims arrived, 2) being let in by one of the victims, or 3) possibly even have gotten in the car with X & E after they had exited the frat party (known to them).

 

[Erutan]

Thinking about the families of these young students today.

 

[everybodhi]

This seems to be an all-female house. But we don't know who used to inhabit that extra room on the second floor or if they had been looking for a new roommate yet since the next semester would start in January.

Showing the house to potential roommates opens another possibility of risk, crossing paths with dangerous unknown people while also exposing the layout of the house and who lives there.
If they were only looking for other women to share the space, someone could still come look with their psycho boyfriend, brother, friend.

 

[MCath]

Idaho police investigating quadruple murders asked about similarities to 2021 unsolved Oregon stabbing attack I’m thinking of what recently happened with the Delphi Murders case, where the girls’ use of Instagram combined with predator males using fake profiles, lurked on Instagram for victims to acquire photos from, potentially meet up with etc. The Moscow case could easily be a ‘targeted’ attack by a stranger who was messaging as a boy online or watching them digitally for a while. The questions I have though re that is why is that dog still alive, how did the killer get inside without forced entry or know they could get inside without forced entry, why kill all four friends and why no sign of sexual assault? I feel like in almost all cases I’ve ever seen where a women is the target, there is usually a sexual component for why she was targeted- rape/bad break up, etc. Also if only one person in their group was the target, attacking inside their own house at three in the morning with everyone else at the home rather than watching and waiting til they are alone on a walk or something seems like a bad idea. Clearly they are getting away with it though so far…

 

[apples12]

MOO. I believe that LE has a suspect in mind but have not formally charged him. They have him under surveillance and they continue to collect evidence. And process the dna, etc. This makes sense to me in that there has been minimal concern about safety of the community, the fact that they ‘know’ it was a targeted attack right from day one, and the crime scene apparently yielded a multitude of evidence. To say someone is “cleared’ is not the same as saying that he ‘is not a suspect’. Not a suspect “at this time“ is implied If the person has not been cleared. I also believe this was a crime of passion, perhaps a suicidal individual channeling rage outward at those he holds responsible for ruining his life. MOO