ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[MsBetsy]

So -- whodunnit? (Bearing in mind TOS etc.) I'm back to sitting on the fence, though it's hard for me to fathom the sheer brutality here if its genesis -- the reason it occurred -- isn't itself an illegality.

LE has said they have no suspects or POI's at this time. I don't think they will know if there was DNA belonging to an unknown person at the crime scene until the lab work comes back. Imo

 

[GGbankster]

MOO. See here’s the kicker for me, I’ve read all 12 threads & I cannot find anywhere that anyone from the household reported Murphy missing! Can anyone show me a link to Murphy being missing? After 12 threads, maybe it’s me going a little crazy

Ks dog was inside the house the entire time since he was found in the crime scene. Murphy is a pup, I don’t see a enclosed yard fence in their apartment. At least where I live, we don’t just let our pup out and sleep thinking it will come back home on its own.

Its also unlikely that the killer will let the dog out, murder 4 people and then search for the dog and return it back to the crime scene.

Edit: Just realize LEs page alluding that they found the dog on the night of the incident, weird and confusing choice of language.

 

[KonaHonu]

My husband is a police detective serving in a major crime unit in the city (we’re in east). He told me that there needs to be one of these two reasons for a prosecutor to get involved in his cases.

1. To determined if there’s enough evidence to charge
2. They have enough evidence to charge

I can’t speak for other states or other LE experiences as state law varies.

Or to keep up morale. Small town. Lots of cops working overtime in Thanksgiving. In addition to the prosecutor I'm sure all the brass went in briefly today.

They can consult with a prosecuter over the phone. This is all about morale and appearances. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[KonaHonu]

LE has said they have no suspects or POI's at this time. I don't think they will know if there was DNA belonging to an unknown person at the crime scene until the lab work comes back. Imo

Even then, we know lots of people were in this house so random DNA means very little. If we get DNA on the chest of a victim, hurray!

 

[OldCop]

I found it! I guess they weren’t from the house next door, but an apartment building…At the time I read it It stood out to me that they were cleaning. I wonder how thorough LE has been able to search surrounding structures ie; houses, next door apartments, etc. given the obstacle of search warrants, etc. Just curious…Four UI students died in 'senseless acts of violence'

In a case like this, LE will usually go door to door around the neighborhood asking if anyone saw or heard anything around the time of the murders. They will try to pick up on any odd vibes from the folks that they talk to which may lead to digging into their background. They will also note people who refuse to talk to them. Even though their hanky meter may go off on someone, LE would have to compile some good probable cause before they would be granted a search warrant. LE can always ask a person if they would mind if the officers took a look around a home, but it’s not as if they are looking for a missing person. That being said it never hurts to ask.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

My husband is a police detective serving in a major crime unit in the city (we’re in east). He told me that there needs to be one of these two reasons for a prosecutor to get involved in his cases.

1. To determined if there’s enough evidence to charge
2. They have enough evidence to charge

I can’t speak for other states or other LE experiences as state law varies.

Here's Idaho: Section 31-2604 – Idaho State Legislature and a more detailed job description (not from Latah County, but the state statute governs so it's the same, just Latah doesn't have the position open:

https://agency.governmentjobs.com/twinfalls/default.cfm?action=specbulletin&ClassSpecID=1140614&headerfooter=0)

• Represents the State of Idaho in felony criminal cases including, but not limited to, going to crime scenes, advising law enforcement agencies during investigations of crimes, obtaining search warrants, screening cases, deciding whether to file charges and under what circumstances, meeting with crime victims, attending a variety of court proceedings, organizing the case file, preparing evidence, securing witnesses, preparing for jury trial, presenting the state's case to the jury, responding to post-trial motions, filing and prosecuting probation violations, etc.

Bolded ones would unfortunately be my guess.

 

[katydid23]

In the meantime, the unsub could be planning his next murder(s).

I don't think rewards usually work that well anyway. I have seen dozens of unsolved cases with very large rewards. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Even then, we know lots of people were in this house so random DNA means very little. If we get DNA on the chest of a victim, hurray!

Yes. Or DNA that doesn't belong to anyone who has been to that house before. Since it was described as a messy crime scene I'm hoping that is the case. But if the killer's DNA is not already in CODIS it may take a very long time to solve this crime. Imo

 

[archisleuth]

I remember seeing discussion that one of the victims, possibly E, was found in the hall. Is that something that was officially reported or conjecture? Maybe only an assumption due to the 911 call saying an “unconscious person”?

 

[tstephens1981]

Ks dog was inside the house the entire time since he was found in the crime scene. Murphy is a pup, I don’t see a enclosed yard fence in their apartment. At least where I live, we don’t just let our pup out and sleep thinking it will come back home on its own.

It’s also unlikely that the killer will let the dog out, murder 4 people and then search for the dog and return it back to the crime scene.

See, I read the “What happened with the Dog” blurb as found at the residence which could also be outside of the house. This may be why animal control took possession of the dog before being returned to its owner. If the dog were in the house, maybe one of the friends would have taken it & animal control wouldn’t be needed.

It was also stated the dog was found the night of the incident, leading me to believe the dog was NOT in the house when police arrived.

I agree the killer would not remove then replace the dog. It’s possible Murphy got out the night before and found his way back later on (hence the calls to K’s ex & possible open door to allow it back in.) And the calls/maybe open door are the only reason I believe the dog is relevant. JMHO

Ks dog was inside the house the entire time since he was found in the crime scene. Murphy is a pup, I don’t see a enclosed yard fence in their apartment. At least where I live, we don’t just let our pup out and sleep thinking it will come back home on its own.

Its also unlikely that the killer will let the dog out, murder 4 people and then search for the dog and return it back to the crime scene.

 

[OldCop]

I’ve been looking around the near vicinity of 1122 King Rd on Google maps to get a sense of the neighborhood, the Arboretum , which has been brought up several times, fraternity row where E and X had attended a party, and the back lot behind the house from where the suspect may have come and gone. It helps when I can visualize the scenes.
When LE expanded the crime scene with additional tape, (probably because of the lookey-lous), it was very easy to see how someone back in that tree line could easily have watched that house and the people in it. I suppose it would be too much to hope that the proverbial pile of cigarett butts or the empty beer cans would mark the spot where our suspect watched and waited.
Anyway, I’ve attached a few maps for people on this thread who may have not seen some of the earlier ones.

 

[GGbankster]

Here's Idaho: Section 31-2604 – Idaho State Legislature and a more detailed job description (not from Latah County, but the state statute governs so it's the same, just Latah doesn't have the position open:

https://agency.governmentjobs.com/twinfalls/default.cfm?action=specbulletin&ClassSpecID=1140614&headerfooter=0)

• Represents the State of Idaho in felony criminal cases including, but not limited to, going to crime scenes, advising law enforcement agencies during investigations of crimes, obtaining search warrants, screening cases, deciding whether to file charges and under what circumstances, meeting with crime victims, attending a variety of court proceedings, organizing the case file, preparing evidence, securing witnesses, preparing for jury trial, presenting the state's case to the jury, responding to post-trial motions, filing and prosecuting probation violations, etc.

Bolded ones would unfortunately be my guess.

Maybe it could be a bit different in Moscow, ID. It’s a less populated smaller town, some petty crime but nothing major that’s why this case is shocking.

I have high hope though that this case will be solved. Le’ have maximizes their resources dedicated to solving this crime ( lots of investigators, fbi, lawyers, forensic professionals). Most populated towns and crime ridden cities in the US were not as fortunate when it comes to resources, they are tap out. Homicide unit here barely come home to their family.

 

[femto]

I remember seeing discussion that one of the victims, possibly E, was found in the hall. Is that something that was officially reported or conjecture? Maybe only an assumption due to the 911 call saying an “unconscious person”?

There were rumors in the beginning, but also there's also the FOX footage showing the police officers taking a DNA swab of something that seems to be large in the living room leading to the kitchen, room and steps to the third floor. So it'll be logical that either someone died there or there was a pool of blood in that place.

 

[Angelcat13]

This is interesting. The states are close to each other and one can map a trail from one to the others. Also, in the pattern of escalation - one victim, then two, then four. I heard a profiler interviewed this week that said this seems like the kind of perp who has done this before.

Or was Idaho only supposed to have been the 3 girls? 1 in 2020, 2 in 2021 (though 1 thankfully survived), 3 in 2022.

 

[MsBetsy]

See, I read the “What happened with the Dog” blurb as found at the residence which could also be outside of the house. This may be why animal control took possession of the dog before being returned to its owner. If the dog were in the house, maybe one of the friends would have taken it & animal control wouldn’t be needed.

It was also stated the dog was found the night of the incident, leading me to believe the dog was NOT in the house when police arrived.

I agree the killer would not remove then replace the dog. It’s possible Murphy got out the night before and found his way back later on (hence the calls to K’s ex & possible open door to allow it back in.) And the calls/maybe open door are the only reason I believe the dog is relevant. JMHO

Or maybe the dog was traumatized and hiding under the victim's bed while the crime was being committed.

Either way, I don't think we know what the dog did or where he was before or after the crime. Unless the dog can talk, I don't see how it is relevant to the murders.

 

[Angelcat13]

General rule is that first murder is closest to home, familiar hunting grounds as it were, but there's really not much close to Washougal and 14, but lots of woods for watching. IF the killer were close to Washougal, then it might make sense. I'm not sold on that one being linked; need to know more.

Silverton,OR has a population of 651 people, but it's only 25 minutes from Salem. Moscow is a leap from there, not just in distance, but in roads. 12 and 95 are a lot of not much. IF these are linked, then this is someone who really knows the PNW or has relocated to somewhere closer to Moscow. If the killer were traveling eastbound through WA, here is where you can look at the roads in and out. https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/mountainpasses/white

If related, your point about the first murder being closest to home could be important. The killer is more within their “comfort zone”. And attacking one older woman was a confidence-building decision.

 

[Quiche]

Ks dog was inside the house the entire time since he was found in the crime scene. Murphy is a pup, I don’t see a enclosed yard fence in their apartment. At least where I live, we don’t just let our pup out and sleep thinking it will come back home on its own.

Its also unlikely that the killer will let the dog out, murder 4 people and then search for the dog and return it back to the crime scene.

Edit: Just realize LEs page alluding that they found the dog on the night of the incident, weird and confusing choice of language.

Okay, throwing my two cents in where Murphy is concerned, lol.

I have read many suggestions of the dog being lost outdoors, and it seems to me that this supposition was spawned from K and M's flurry of phone calls in those wee hours to K's ex, and co-owner of the pup. However, my mind shifted away from that idea when I watched the interview with K's siblings and father. Her sister admitted that K made phone calls about any number of inane things regardless of the hour, IOW, not necessarily an emergency or even an alarm, this was standard K behavior.

I think it's highly probable Murphy was crated in the spare room, behind a closed door, with food, water, and pee pads. The entire household was out that night-- the pup needed to be accommodated for a stretch of being alone. It was a busy place, the pooch didn't live there full time, and the lack of barking was either him being conditioned to the unexpected, puppy cowardice, or maybe just soundly asleep in a safe bed.

The police probably "located" him in the empty bedroom. No biggie.

MOO

 

[lello2]

Or maybe the dog was traumatized and hiding under the victim's bed while the crime was being committed.

Either way, I don't think we know what the dog did or where he was before or after the crime. Unless the dog can talk, I don't see how it is relevant to the murders.

I do think it could be relevant although granted it seems we are going a bit in circles due to lack of confirmed info - which is frustrating. You are right, the dog could bring absolutely nothing to the case but can’t help thinking that the presence of a dog would put most people off entering a house in the middle of the night to do something dodgy. If the killer scoped out the house beforehand they would have known there was a dog but clearly wasn’t concerned enough by it to back out. What does that say about the killer / their psychology / relationship with victims? Maybe nothing, but at this point hard to tell

 

[GGbankster]

See, I read the “What happened with the Dog” blurb as found at the residence which could also be outside of the house. This may be why animal control took possession of the dog before being returned to its owner. If the dog were in the house, maybe one of the friends would have taken it & animal control wouldn’t be needed.

It was also stated the dog was found the night of the incident, leading me to believe the dog was NOT in the house when police arrived.

I agree the killer would not remove then replace the dog. It’s possible Murphy got out the night before and found his way back later on (hence the calls to K’s ex & possible open door to allow it back in.) And the calls/maybe open door are the only reason I believe the dog is relevant. JMHO

I agree, where the dog was located is relevant. However, I’m less confident now of his whereabouts due to their problematic timeline. They found him the night of the incident at the “residence”, it doesn’t makes sense. Maybe LE is purposely obscuring their choice of language for the integrity of their investigation.

Having said that, I was confident that K was the target. After the press conference yesterday, and the interview of Ks father, sister and brother. There are so many things that was said and insinuated in that interview that stood out. I will refrain from repeating though.

This case is very sad for the victims family. I can’t imagine their pain and I hope they get through this.

 

[MsBetsy]

I do think it could be relevant although granted it seems we are going a bit in circles due to lack of confirmed info - which is frustrating. You are right, the dog could bring absolutely nothing to the case but can’t help thinking that the presence of a dog would put most people off entering a house in the middle of the night to do something dodgy. If the killer scoped out the house beforehand they would have known there was a dog but clearly wasn’t concerned enough by it to back out. What does that say about the killer / their psychology / relationship with victims? Maybe nothing, but at this point hard to tell

Was the dog known to be a good watch dog, though? We don't know if he was a 'barker' or not. Some dogs are friendly with everyone and some are shy. He was probably used to a lot of people coming and going. For all we know the dog's bed was in the kitchen and he slept the whole time. If the roommates came home and saw him they may not have suspected anything was wrong.

But yes, it may have been risky to murder four people in a residence with a dog, but it's been done before so it's not impossible.

LE has not mentioned anything suspicious about the dogs whereabouts, have they?