ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[hopewell]

If all were in bed and likely asleep (according to the coroner), then killing all four only makes sense if all of them were the target. And if all of them were the target, this was almost certainly premeditated, psychopathic, and random. If it would've been perpetrated by an aggrieved ex, a jealous friend, a slighted frat pledge, or someone similar, then a gun probably would've been used and a single target chosen. Stabbing four people to death indicates an obsession with precision and the "thrill" of power and intimacy to me, which is why I feel the suspect is either an established or budding serial killer.

My opinion.

 

[tayaway]

I believe so. In the very 1st interview the sister gave and it was brought up and discussed several times in earlier threads. When I first heard it, I asked how would she know that and this is what was told. In addition, when le says the dog was found the night of the incident to me that means Sunday night since the incident occurred early Sunday morning. So yes, the dog stuff is just as confusing as is everything else with the case.

Reposting the LE site dedicated to the case, as a refresher for questions about info that's been released, such as Murphy the dog. King Street Homicide

What happened to the dog? On the night of the incident, officers located a dog at the residence. The dog was unharmed and turned over to Animal Services and later released to a responsible party.

 

[Simply Southern]

Idaho murders: Third unsolved stabbing attack resurfaces amid college slaying mystery

As investigators search for a suspect in the slaying of four University of Idaho students, a third unsolved stabbing has resurfaced with eerie similarities.

www.foxnews.com

snipped...
Reporters at a news briefing Wednesday asked Moscow police about the possible connection between the students’ slayings and a second unsolved stabbing, which left Travis Juetten dead and seriously injured his wife Jamilyn in Oregon.

Authorities say an intruder attacked the couple in their sleep around 3 a.m. on Aug. 13, 2021.

Travis Juetten, 26, fought back but succumbed to his injuries. His wife, who is 26 now, survived 19 stab wounds.

Sandra Ladd, 71, was found dead in her home in Washougal, Washington, on June 14, 2020, according to Oregon Crime Stoppers. Her death was ruled a homicide after the medical examiner found multiple stab wounds in her torso, Washougal police said at the time.

The two attacks happened 14 months apart but within 70 miles of one another. The locations are roughly a five-hour drive west of Moscow, Idaho

 

[KonaHonu]

It's possible the victims shared information while alive with the roommates. It's possible the roommates have their own suspicions they believe critical. Any knowledge or recollection they can provide from while they were awake and interacting with the victims could be relevant to the investigation. We don't know.

If any victim was alive to share information a few minutes before police arrived it would be outrageous and possibly criminal that EMS did not come in and attempt to revive them. The priorities in an emergency response are:

1. Scene safety (are there any more bad actors or other hazards at the scene)
2. Life saving
3. Transport (or death declaration on scene)
4. Police investigation

Obviously I do not know for a fact if this is the case in Moscow Idaho. But those priorities are so accepted so widely that I would say that any idiot who approved anything else should be in jail because they have almost certainly cost lives. When I had my EMR training (by a cop/paramedic) it was made very clear that you NEVER choose not to do something because you are worried about any police investigation! In fact there are times when, in the interest of proper treatment you exclude police or ask them to leave. For example, a 12-year old with abdominable pain might be pregnant. But EMS's role is to treat medically and the presence of a cop might cause the victim to lie so you politely inform the cop that he should move out of earshot so that you can ask confidential questions. I have never been in the situation but my understanding from those who have is that most LEOs are professional and do as requested because they understand the priorities and HIIPA rules.

 

[John Book]

Hopefully, analysis of the forensic evidence will provide detectives with the key(s) to identifying this coward/killer.

The maniac needs to be removed from society asap...

 

[branmuffin]

snipped ^^

I have so many questions about the dog! Someone here on WS commented about the unusual wording of (paraphrasing) 'a dog was located at the home...' or something like that. I can't imagine coming in and my dog not greeting me at the door...or me not checking to see who he was sleeping with....and not waking up the entire house and certainly contacting the CO-OWNER I shared custody with if I didn't find my dog within minutes of arriving home.

I think it is quite likely that the killer opened the slider and didn't close it and the dog, being a young pup, probably went on an adventure, roaming the neighbourhood, taking in the sights and smells. He probably wandered back into the home after the killer left and just hung out.

Most dogs pick up anxiety from their owners and react; they don't necessarily recognize a threat. He may have been curious about a dead person if one of the deceased was somewhere on the second floor. Perhaps he wasn't able to get into the bedroom where K was, if that is where he usually slept. Dogs aren't nervous around death, they are very interested in dead animals and only heed their owners command to leave it because its the human who's grossed out, not the dog.

We had someone break into our home in Toronto during the night years ago. I had left my purse hanging on the bannister at the top of the stairs on the second level. The intruder took it along with other items. It was returned to me the next morning by a cop who found it one street over. Our dog had been sleeping on the bed with us when we went to bed and he was there in the morning. I don't know if he woke up or not, but he certainly didn't alert us to an intruder which I think may have been a good thing.

 

[clearskies1]

We don't know that the surviving roommates slept through the attacks. LE said they fell asleep about 1 am and woke up later that morning. Later that morning could mean 3:30 am. Maybe they woke up to banging or loud noises but were tired and fell back asleep. JMO.

Replying to my own post. In fact, looking at LE's website, LE has not said when the surviving roommate's feel asleep. All they say is this: "Detectives believe that on November 12th, the two surviving roommates had also been out in the Moscow community, separately, but returned home by 1 a.m. on November 13th. The two did not wake up until later that morning." King Street Homicide | Moscow, ID

So it seems we don't know when they feel asleep, when they woke up, or whether they were awake and heard anything during the attacks. JMO.

 

[Friday Fan]

Agreed. Also wouldn’t explain barking from inside without getting bloody while roaming freely. (Assuming he came back at some point.)

Also confusing- how could police locate anything at the residence on the night of the incident if it wasn’t reported till the next afternoon?

Edit to add: Located at residence that night IF separate & unrelated service call for dog only.

It would have been Sunday night when they were processing the crime scene. (Night of...) As usual their syntax is "different" and not direct.

Animal control does not operate on Saturday nights. (It also does not operate on Sunday nights, but I assume since LE was working the crime scene, they saw the dog on site and took it to animal care)

 

[branmuffin]

The slider would seem to be the best way to enter and exit the house with out being seen. I agree the killer most likely knew the layout of the house.

Judging by the layout of the house I also think it's possible that the assailant may have left from the third floor balcony, walked further to the back of the house on the side balcony and just dropped to the ground. The incline of the hill the house is built on is quite steep from front to back. You may only have to drop about 5 feet to the hill at back.

 

[tstephens1981]

Just reading the room here; do most of us agree the surviving roommates indeed “survived” due to the killer *not knowing* about the bottom level living space?

Of course there are other reasons explaining why they were not attacked (locked doors) but I get the sense there’s a general consensus about them not being “targeted” like the upstairs tenants. Thoughts?

ETA I ask because not knowing about the first floor to me suggests more of a random attack. Avoiding the first floor for another reason points toward somebody at least somewhat familiar with the house itself.

 

[wary]

If any victim was alive to share information a few minutes before police arrived it would be outrageous and possibly criminal that EMS did not come in and attempt to revive them. The priorities in an emergency response are:

1. Scene safety (are there any more bad actors or other hazards at the scene)
2. Life saving
3. Transport (or death declaration on scene)
4. Police investigation

Obviously I do not know for a fact if this is the case in Moscow Idaho. But those priorities are so accepted so widely that I would say that any idiot who approved anything else should be in jail because they have almost certainly cost lives. When I had my EMR training (by a cop/paramedic) it was made very clear that you NEVER choose not to do something because you are worried about any police investigation! In fact there are times when, in the interest of proper treatment you exclude police or ask them to leave. For example, a 12-year old with abdominable pain might be pregnant. But EMS's role is to treat medically and the presence of a cop might cause the victim to lie so you politely inform the cop that he should move out of earshot so that you can ask confidential questions. I have never been in the situation but my understanding from those who have is that most LEOs are professional and do as requested because they understand the priorities and HIIPA rules.

I think this is a misunderstanding of the quoted post.

I think that the intention was to point out that the survivors’ interactions with the victims, whether the day before, a week before, three months before, might supply valuable information to LE.

I do NOT believe that the intention was to imply that the victims might have still been alive at the time of the 911 call.

 

[Lilibet]

If any victim was alive to share information a few minutes before police arrived it would be outrageous and possibly criminal that EMS did not come in and attempt to revive them.

I believe Sillybilly meant that one of the victims may have shared something important with a surviver before retiring for the night. This was in the context that the survivors may have had important information even though they slept through the attack.

 

[Friday Fan]

Just reading the room here; do most of us agree the surviving roommates indeed “survived” due to the killer *not knowing* about the bottom level living space?

Of course there are other reasons explaining why they were not attacked (locked doors) but I get the sense there’s a general consensus about them not being “targeted” like the upstairs tenants. Thoughts?

I think the perp was engaged in voyeurism. He could see into the second and third floors via the sliding doors, but could not see into the lower level. He may or may not have known about the first level occupants. Or just decided he didn't want to take the risk of encountering someone on the lower level, since the escape route wasn't as easy as the upper levels. (Maybe the perp was worried that the lower unit had males occupants or something?? It was an unknown...)

 

[bonniejeanne17]

When I was watching the press conference yesterday, that's what I kept thinking. Somebody knows something and they're not saying it. It's so common and so human and so debilitating to justice.

Perhaps if a reward were offered people with information would be more likely to come forward. There must be someone who has seen or heard something, or who has noted recent strange behavior in a friend or acquaintance.

 

[accordn2me]

You see it as they are stating they found the dog wandering around outside the house before the murders? As in before everyone returned home?

I’ve been telling myself they found it after arriving post 911 call. And after assessing victims (could take hours) turned it over to animal services.

I think the dog was out when everyone else was and his owner beat him home and started calling the other owner looking for the dog. Maybe she assumed he had picked up the dog, and was home fast asleep, so she went to bed. There may or may not have been a door left open just in case he might come home… but by the time the cops found an open door, no telling how many other people were over there. Scene is compromised to that extent…..

Waking up to find one unresponsive person and/or a missing dog would somewhat explain calls going out to friends that a search party needed to be organized….BEFORE the dog’s reactive owner and her best friend discover that he is missing. So, shh, don’t wake them up until we find the dog.

 

[WildWest]

I have to mention, if they dog was incapacitated, knocked out or sedated/drugged. I don't know any dog that would not go crazy listening to murders.

Fellow longtime lurker, first post.


I like this theory a lot! I have a similar take:

What if Murphy was accidentally let out by the downstairs roommates or E & X upon their arrival that night? I seem to recall M & K were the last group home; upon discovering the dog missing they began searching and calling dog’s co-owner for assistance. Perhaps when this didn’t pan out, they left a door open for the dog to return through? And if the killer was watching the house, the open door was the final encouragement he/she needed to follow through on their plan.

Just a thought but if this or something similar occurred, it might be important regarding the killer’s entry/exit and further motivation. JMHO

Source: myself (see below)

Growing up we had a Westie that was an escape artist. She was a purely “inside” dog so the few times we couldn’t find her (particularly at night) we would leave the garage door slightly open in case she returned on her own- that way she was at least warm.

Granted I grew up in a small town (roughly size of Moscow now that I think about it!) and this was 20+ years ago, but we never really worried about locking our doors.

I can imagine that happening! Nice theory

 

[tstephens1981]

Perhaps if a reward were offered people with information would be more likely to come forward. There must be someone who has seen or heard something, or who has noted recent strange behavior in a friend or acquaintance.

I suspect they have not offered a reward YET because they are still sifting through so many other tips, etc. They don’t need thousands more at the moment. MOO

Added: Could also create more tension with locals who already suspect LE have no leads, a reward reinforces “we got nothin’” and the public is therefore not safe. (Which may or may not be true.)

 

[Karin1974]

Why is the dog critical?

MOO, it’s not, unless it could talk!

 

[accordn2me]

I can imagine that happening! Nice theory

I think takes a long time to tranquilizer (sedate) a dog. It’s not by any means instant. I’m guessing 30 minutes.

 

[Miriel Pastor of Vows]

I can think of about 8 different reasons why they might not have continued the attack.

I am thankful that the other young people in the house survived and hope they have the resources needed to work through this trauma. I hope they never have to experience something remotely close to this again, and that they get some measure of peace and closure from the arrest and prosecution of the person or people who committed these crimes.