ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[Dr. Farce]

It's a variation on those crimes. Not sure why "experts" are denying that. It's obvious.

While I agree it is a variation of Bundt’s crimes, it just doesn’t strike me as a serial killer as the bodies weren’t assaulted before or after death. I presume a serial killer would want to spend more time with the victims vs just kill and leave.

 

[tstephens1981]

Your theory would explain the calls to the other owner of the dog AND possibly the police saying they found a door open...

Here's the Q & A from the Moscow, Idaho website:

1. What happened to the dog?

On the night of the incident, officers located a dog at the residence. The dog was unharmed and turned over to Animal Services and later released to a responsible party.

Note: "On the night of the incident...."

To me, it's weird that the dog was turned over to Animal Services if it was any other time except the night of the incident when none of the occupants of the home had discovered he was missing.

Agreed. Also wouldn’t explain barking from inside without getting bloody while roaming freely. (Assuming he came back at some point.)

Also confusing- how could police locate anything at the residence on the night of the incident if it wasn’t reported till the next afternoon?

Edit to add: Located at residence that night IF separate & unrelated service call for dog only.

 

[Sundog]

K’sister said in her 1st interview that when k got home she took the dog out. I assume she got this info from the same camera footage that showed her come home .

K's sister was describing K's habitual behavior, she would take the dog out when she got home. She had no way of knowing if K did so on that particular night.

 

[Operationcatchthug]

They didn’t say any of this.

What they did say was the nature of the attack and totality of the evidence available to them have have suggested that it is a targeted attack. They have not categorically ruled out anything, although they have continuously cleared several individuals as the investigation has continued.

An attack can be non-targeted?

 

[Operationcatchthug]

While I agree it is a variation of Bundt’s crimes, it just doesn’t strike me as a serial killer as the bodies weren’t assaulted before or after death. I presume a serial killer would want to spend more time with the victims vs just kill and leave.

Each maniac has his own style.

 

[Miriel Pastor of Vows]

An attack can be non-targeted?

The targeted language was used by law enforcement in their communications to suggest that they do not believe the attack to be fully random.

 

[Karin1974]

Agreed, I am glad it’s not something you can commonly do in Australia!

Actually it is, realestate.com.au

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

While I agree it is a variation of Bundt’s crimes, it just doesn’t strike me as a serial killer as the bodies weren’t assaulted before or after death. I presume a serial killer would want to spend more time with the victims vs just kill and leave.

depends on the type. not thrill type: The Zodiac and Other Thrill Killers

It's the chase and capture with them, not the kill.

 

[Kdot112]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

The survivors are definitely not useless. You may be surprised what could be learned by knowing where they were before and what they did before bed. We don’t even know that they were asleep before the roommates got home.

From the little information we have, as far as we know, it’s possible every single roommate could have been awake together from 2-3. Meaning they might have witnessed k and ms phone calls and know what they were for. That’s just one example.

 

[debirlfan]

Also confusing- how could police locate anything at the residence on the night of the incident if it wasn’t reported till the next afternoon?

Let's say someone reports the dog running in the street. Cops arrive, dog runs into the yard. Cops knock at door, nobody answers. The reason nobody answers is because downstairs tenants are asleep (perhaps police are at the other door) and upstairs tenants are dead.
Actually, if it did happen this way, it could explain why police believe murders happened between 3 and 4 am. If the dog was found and police knocked at 4....

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes. Useless to the investigation. Why say they have critical information when police have already said they slept through the whole thing!

It's possible the victims shared information while alive with the roommates. It's possible the roommates have their own suspicions they believe critical. Any knowledge or recollection they can provide from while they were awake and interacting with the victims could be relevant to the investigation. We don't know.

 

[tstephens1981]

I

I know their testimony is non-contributory because the police & FBI are still in the dark! Whatever they know is obviously trivial. Further supports thrill kill hypothesis.

Non-contributory in the sense they couldn’t solve it for police & FBI?

They may have contributed a lot that we don’t know about (yet.)

 

[Kdot112]

The Moscow Idaho website says that a dog was located at the residence ON THE NIGHT OF THE INCIDENT and turned over to Animal Services..... That indicates that police found a dog at the residence on the night of the incident... but didn't have anyone to turn him over to save for Animal Services, IF none of the occupants yet realized that had a missing pet.

By the next day at noon when the calls went out the friends to come over and assess the situation that one of the four people in the house was unresponsive....it would have been very obvious the dog was missing to those that already knew he was in a shared custody arrangement - meaning the next logical explanation for the terrier would be his owner confiscated him at some point.

You see it as they are stating they found the dog wandering around outside the house before the murders? As in before everyone returned home?

I’ve been telling myself they found it after arriving post 911 call. And after assessing victims (could take hours) turned it over to animal services.

 

[KonaHonu]

Does anyone know if the University of Idaho has its own campus police/security division? I haven't seen anyone from campus police on stage at any of the press conferences. I wonder if the University contracts with the city to have the city LE patrol their campus and respond to calls that originate on campus. I would be surprised if UI didn't have their own campus police division.

I worked for a university for a long time and participated in some mentoring programs for which we had a lot of training. I'm going to throw something out that I can't support with any links but this is based on personal experience. Apparently universities are unique in that if they have a police force it generally reports to the Dean of Students Office. In my case our training was that if a student reports a sexual assault to a mentor, our obligation was to report it to the Dean of Students and we were not allowed to report it to the police even if off campus. We were exempt from the state law that otherwise required reporting to the police. I think this is because the Dean of Students is the chief law enforcement officer at most universities. We have heard from the UofI Dean of Students.

There is also a concept in American law called "en loco parentis" where college students, even if under 18, are considered adults (In loco parentis - Wikipedia). Professors are used to helicopter parents of 16 year olds demanding to know how their kid is doing because the kid is underage and they are paying. Nope. It is actually illegal to share that information with the parents under a law called FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act - Wikipedia).

Both of these are very broad reaching laws

I also know that the city police did NOT have any authority on the campus proper at my university, though they did have jurisdiction on many areas of the extended campus. The state police did have authority although only because of an intergovernmental agreement. 10-15 years ago the city police decided to self fund by getting a federal grant to provide "education" by writing jaywalking tickets in a particular area of campus. They messed with the wrong institution. All of the tickets were voided, they had to pay back the federal grant, and several commanders were fired for not knowing the area they targeted did not meet the requirements to be jaywalking and for not knowing they lacked jurisdiction anyway.

There are many reasons for universities having their own police force. Universities are unique environments. For example, academic freedom allows possession of otherwise illegal material (child *advertiser censored*, illegal drugs, etc.) for legitimate research purposes. But academic freedom also leaves the decision regarding what is legitimate research to the researchers. Academic freedom is not exactly a legal concept but has been respected by the courts. It would be a huge burden if any local cop could question a researcher for example about their research in so many ways. Often universities have committees that review things like this. A lot of medical research for example would be considered assault under state laws so most universities have a "human subjects committee" that must be consulted, although they do not always have the authority to deny research, they can be more of a liability limiter for the university. Can you imagine the disaster it would be if officer Jones of Podunk PD could show up at university hospital and say "this is assault, you're under arrest" just because a family member objected to grandma participating in a clinical trial?

In any case, it does not appear that UofI has their own police force. If they contract with Moscow Police Department or ISP it is likely these special situations are addressed.

 

[clearskies1]

Could be along the lines of a repairman who was recently in the house...something like that. JMO.

 

[starviego]

I would really like to hear a professional serial killer profiler look at the possible connection of these three unsolved stabbings in the Pacific Northwest.

I am sure the Moscow PD has quietly sent out a long list of names to those other departments, to see if they have any in common with their own investigations.

 

[Sleuthchik7]

The Moscow Idaho website says that a dog was located at the residence ON THE NIGHT OF THE INCIDENT and turned over to Animal Services..... That indicates that police found a dog at the residence on the night of the incident... but didn't have anyone to turn him over to save for Animal Services, IF none of the occupants yet realized that had a missing pet.

By the next day at noon when the calls went out the friends to come over and assess the situation that one of the four people in the house was unresponsive....it would have been very obvious the dog was missing to those that already knew he was in a shared custody arrangement - meaning the next logical explanation for the terrier would be his owner confiscated him at some

Is this verified?

I believe so. In the very 1st interview the sister gave and it was brought up and discussed several times in earlier threads. When I first heard it, I asked how would she know that and this is what was told. In addition, when le says the dog was found the night of the incident to me that means Sunday night since the incident occurred early Sunday morning. So yes, the dog stuff is just as confusing as is everything else with the case.

 

[clearskies1]

We don't know that the surviving roommates slept through the attacks. LE said they fell asleep about 1 am and woke up later that morning. Later that morning could mean 3:30 am. Maybe they woke up to banging or loud noises but were tired and fell back asleep. JMO.

 

[Sillybilly]

I thought police said they know that these 4 were the only intended targets? Now police say it's a serial killer? Methinks the police know nothing.

Guaranteed the police know a boatload more than any of us do.

Some murders are solved in a day (usually those on television ), others can take years (as in personal experience and others that we have witnessed here a Websleuths). It doesn't mean police don't have information critical to the ongoing investigation, but it is prudent that they aren't sharing everything they do have.

 

[Kdot112]

I

I know their testimony is non-contributory because the police & FBI are still in the dark! Whatever they know is obviously trivial. Further supports thrill kill hypothesis.

We don’t know that the police and fbi are in the dark. I personally think the case is all but solved at this moment and evidence is being organized. And if my theory is right, a large chunk of the solving happened quickly after the survivors were interviewed. Whether it was a random thrill kill or not.