ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[North_Idaho_Nony]

My primary thought about "berries vs. blood" is that if it were indeed blood, the investigators would have gathered it up as forensic evidence and not leave it to get contaminated by the elements outdoors.

Hence, IMO they are just berries which have fallen from the branches above them.

I do like the observation noted by @Sillybilly regarding the absence of snow on the crucial part of the railing. That seems germane to me.

Jmo

Jumping in before catching up, but …

Had that pointing photo referenced been taken closer to the crime (IIRC, it was taken in 11/25), I might think it significant.

Moo, I wonder how significant it would be at this point given our weather? We’ve had rain, flurries, & even a bit of snow since then.

Maybe substance traces have survived, but I personally can’t draw anything from the snow on the roof at this late point. JMHO

Does anyone have pics of the roof closer to the murders for comparison? I’d be very interested in a comparison!

Moo, but could they have been pointing to something like a broken branch?

Just spitballing!

 

[GGbankster]

I find the backstories coming from this sorority and fraternity to be very mundane. People have tried to spin up some kind of compelling drama in the lives of these young adults, but there is really not much there. Very vanilla plot lines. What is there to suggest anyone near them would have a motive. I lean toward psycho stalker, serial killer angle.
And what does targeted attack mean?
I would think ethan was the target, because the killer would be most concerned taking him out first and then move onto anyone else on the second floor. Targeted attack seems like a red herring, and is a hold over from when idaho police initially told the community to not worry because the attack was "targeted".

I agree. I’m under the belief that LE does not have to tell us everything about this case however if they think it’s a serial killer or random, I believe LE have to come out about it with 100% certainty because it involves public safety .

This murder is very scary and honestly every noise I hear from outside my house at night, im super sensitive of it from reading this case and I do have a glass door. I’m thinking of adding a camera to my kitchen.

So I think LE stating that this was targeted could be true. Moo

 

[Minordetails]

Is it possible to murder 4 people, with a knife, in an urban area, in 2022, and get away with it for 2 weeks without a name or motive publicized? Not if you’re flying by the seat of your pants. IMO

 

[TL4S]

Regarding the bruising...

Mabbutt said that the victims showed "little bit of bruising" but "nothing significant." She added that some bruising "wouldn't be uncommon during a stabbing."

Honestly, we don't even know if all of the victims were stabbed in the front vs back, how many times, who had it the most, etc.

Mabbutt couldn't say how many times each victim was stabbed but said it was safe to say each of them had multiple wounds. She declined to say where on the body they were stabbed and later clarified that the victims were stabbed in different places and a different amount of times.

Coroner offers new details about fatal slaying of 4 U of Idaho students after preliminary autopsies

 

[OldCop]

Let’s just pretend for argument’s sake that the killer was clever enough to leave his phone and smart watch at home while he snuck out to commit the murders.

If LE has an idea who the suspect could be, and if they think he drove a vehicle to commit the murders, would they be able to get information from some thing like OnStar to detect his movements using GPS?

Is OnStar not matching someone’s alibi?

It depends on the vehicle. Newer models save more info than older ones. For anyone who is interested, take a look at the Suzanne Morphew case. It is unbelievable what is tracked in some vehicles such as doors opening and closing, ignition starts and stops, backing up distances etc etc. in addition to location info.

 

[fezjones]

I tend to agree that they were killed by someone not known to them, but the frat/sorority angle isn't necessarily unreasonable. If 1 of 20 folks has a personality disorder/pathology, and 1 of 20 of those have emotional dysregulation and/or anger/explosive issues within said personality disorder/pathology, then it isn't unreasonable to assume that someone in their circle is unstable enough to act out violently.

My opinion.

I think this is a non sequitur. Working off of "crazy people be showing up everywhere", how does that entail therefore other students in the fraternity need to be endlessly scrutinized, and we need to go down rabbit holes of how many phone calls were made.
The largest killing in american college history was the asian kid at vt. I think the IU massacre is a different abstraction from a lone wolf type.

 

[OldCop]

I believe the person that was targeted was X. She would be “a woman who was living upstairs.”

Yesterday on the Twitter spaces hosted by Brian Entin and Jennifer Coffindoffer, the former FBI agent said she has heard rumors on the ground in Idaho that at least one of the bodies was mutilated. She said specifically how, but I won’t repeat that here, since it is a rumor, and is disturbing.

However, since we know X had defensive wounds, and therefore woke up, my suspicion is that she is the one who was out of bed. I’m guessing she was either blocking the door from being opened, or was hanging off the bed.

If you look at the floor plan, the bed in her bedroom would most likely be placed against the wall where the blood was dripping down the foundation of the home’s exterior. If her body was mutilated in such a way that a large amount of blood would leave the body, and was hanging off the bed, gravity would empty the body of blood, enough to soak through the seam between the floor boards, drywall and mounding, and then would run off of the subfloor and out of the house. Nearly 2 gallons of blood could definitely cause a few drips to leak out.

I also don’t understand why you would even want to mess with the only man in the house unless X was the target.

There is a reason that their timeline that evening is squishy. We just don’t know what that reason is.

I’ve just been thinking about all the pieces, and trying to put them together. To me, it makes sense that X was the one targeted.

If it was X who was the target, did the killer know ahead of time that E was going to go to the dance with his sister that night and that X might be home without him?

 

[Litespeed]

Run across this while doing some random surfing and it resonated here:

"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."

"The dog did nothing in the night-time."

"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.

 

[TKG]

Or...just as importantly... Murphy liked HIM. I wish we knew where the dog was when things were happening. Possibly on the first floor with the two surviving roommates? I'm thinking that even if the dog and the killer knew/liked each other, I can't see that the dog, or any dog, would be standing by quietly when something so brutal as the stabbings was happening. Whether Murphy would have barked, or jumped around trying to join in what he (the dog) may have interpreted as "play", or just wandered around following the killer between floors--- I don't think that he was loose. The killer may have given him something to keep him quiet, but wouldn't that have added one more thing that he would have had to think about beforehand? A local news account described Murphy as "traumatized" but maybe just from the number of people running around his house when LE came. MOO

I know, I know... The dog again.
I thought about this extensively and had two points regarding dog etc.
1. If the dog was let in and slept in a kennel at night, it would explain much of the where/when/why.
2. I reviewed police logs and found calls made regarding the location of an animal transported to local animal shelter.
"22-M09911 Suspicious Person/Circumstance

Incident Address: 2000 blk WHITE AVE

MOSCOW ID 83843

Disposition: ACT

Time Reported: 17:30

Cad Comments:

Request assistance locating dog that was dropped off at shelter.

Officer responded. Computer report."

Moscow Police Log 11-13-22

 

[annpats]

IMO the police are not asking the public to BOLO for certain people because the police already know who they are looking for.

Or it could be that the police are not asking the public to BOLO because they DON'T know who they're looking for!

 

[GGbankster]

I believe the person that was targeted was X. She would be “a woman who was living upstairs.”

Yesterday on the Twitter spaces hosted by Brian Entin and Jennifer Coffindoffer, the former FBI agent said she has heard rumors on the ground in Idaho that at least one of the bodies was mutilated. She said specifically how, but I won’t repeat that here, since it is a rumor, and is disturbing.

However, since we know X had defensive wounds, and therefore woke up, my suspicion is that she is the one who was out of bed. I’m guessing she was either blocking the door from being opened, or was hanging off the bed.

If you look at the floor plan, the bed in her bedroom would most likely be placed against the wall where the blood was dripping down the foundation of the home’s exterior. If her body was mutilated in such a way that a large amount of blood would leave the body, and was hanging off the bed, gravity would empty the body of blood, enough to soak through the seam between the floor boards, drywall and mounding, and then would run off of the subfloor and out of the house. Nearly 2 gallons of blood could definitely cause a few drips to leak out.

I also don’t understand why you would even want to mess with the only man in the house unless X was the target.

There is a reason that their timeline that evening is squishy. We just don’t know what that reason is.

I’ve just been thinking about all the pieces, and trying to put them together. To me, it makes sense that X was the one targeted.

Moo, I also believe it was X who was targeted and that she was purposely awaken and the last to die.

 

[annpats]

IMO If there are two lovers in a room, I tend not to interrupt anything.

Not even for butchery of housemates?

 

[OldCop]

Isn't it a tipoff to LE whenever someone gives an overly detailed account to an investigator?

Sometimes………

 

[TL4S]

Does anyone remember LE, maybe in a question and answer portion of a PC, or something, saying they could not divulge where each body was found. I swear this was said, but I can't find the source.

 

[pamelado2]

Is that true? My instinct would be to fling my forearm and closed fist to get the knife-wielding arm away.

Sure, but remember the attacker is stabbing and would continue with his weapon. So when you're arm goes up he continues to strike with the knife, cutting your arm. I assume it's more instinctual, to try and get the knife away from you rather than go for his weak spots.

 

[Megnut]

Because we don't know much about the 911 call, I can speculate that it may have developed like this:

MOO somebody at another address innocently reached out to a housemate. For example a triplet to a fellow triplet.

It's important to remember that, barring a quadruple homicide, the four victims each had plans for that Sunday. Not necessarily grand plans but plans nonetheless. Not the least of which, the expectation to be alive for it.

Busy Saturdays, late to bed, sleeping in not unexpected. But after that, what? Did any of the four have plans for the day? Work, play?

Possibly a triplet had plans with E. Maybe texted E. No answer. Calls E. No answer. Tries X. Text, call, no answer. Tries M and K and the two survivors, one of whom responds. MOO. "My brother's not answering me, X either. Can you check?"

Survivor goes upstairs. All is quiet. Sliding door, likely open. Odd. E's car, possibly there. Knock. No answer. REALLY knock, no answer... maybe she can hear E's phone ringing. Mysterious leaning toward creepy. Meanwhile a triplet or other frat boy is jogging over.... she tries the door, if unlocked she tries to open it....could be blocked, by E...or locked and then peer in a window or peer under the door, enough to spy a body....

That might be what was relayed to 911... while ON THE PHONE, the 911 caller might've pressed on, opening the door, opening the window to gain access .... revealing the macabre scene which is then relayed to 911 in real, raw time. Bodies, injuries, blood, probably seas of it.

Releasing the 911 call, ill-advised.... public consumption is no reason. It's chock full of evidentiary detail. Body location, injury locations. Best to keep that quiet until trial..

My impression, 911 was engaged before the totality of the violence was known and the call evolved. Devolved. From there....

Devastating for the survivors, the discoverers. Things you can never unsee...

No one need to layer more grief on that.

JMO

 

[Barry]

Or it could be because they DON'T know who they're looking for!

This could be true. MOO is that they have someone on their radar screen.

 

[NyeScienceQueen]

I find the backstories coming from this sorority and fraternity to be very mundane. People have tried to spin up some kind of compelling drama in the lives of these young adults, but there is really not much there. Very vanilla plot lines. What is there to suggest anyone near them would have a motive. I lean toward psycho stalker, serial killer angle.
And what does targeted attack mean?
I would think ethan was the target, because the killer would be most concerned taking him out first and then move onto anyone else on the second floor. Targeted attack seems like a red herring, and is a hold over from when idaho police initially told the community to not worry because the attack was "targeted".

I also lean stalker serial killer vibes. What if it was someone who briefly saw or interacted with them from a distance (maybe worked near the girls at Mad

I find the backstories coming from this sorority and fraternity to be very mundane. People have tried to spin up some kind of compelling drama in the lives of these young adults, but there is really not much there. Very vanilla plot lines. What is there to suggest anyone near them would have a motive. I lean toward psycho stalker, serial killer angle.
And what does targeted attack mean?
I would think ethan was the target, because the killer would be most concerned taking him out first and then move onto anyone else on the second floor. Targeted attack seems like a red herring, and is a hold over from when idaho police initially told the community to not worry because the attack was "targeted".

I also agree and lean towards serial or stalker vibes. What if it was someone with a slight connection such as seeing the girls at Mad Greek or working in the vicinity in one of the other restaurants on that strip? It would be easy enough to follow them home after shifts and watch in a wooded area near their home to pick up on their patterns and schedules. Maybe “targeted” in the fact that this person was after the girls and E was collateral damage. But I speculate his targets are women who made “him” feel inferior. What if E was just the first to go because he was in the room nearest the door he entered and he didn’t want another man over powering him or stopping him from the horrible crime he committed because in all likely he was the only one with the strength to do so?

 

[annpats]

I feel like all of them were targets, including the two survivors had the suspect known about the first floor.

Well, a perp would know about the first floor if he'd seen the house from the front. It's obviously a 3 storey house.
So you think he only ever saw the house from the back?

 

[annpats]

Is that true? My instinct would be to fling my forearm and closed fist to get the knife-wielding arm away.

Easier said that done if you're lying in bed and the knife maniac is standing up attacking you while you're laying down.