ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 15

[Celt1997]

So then is this very crude drawing I made the most likely path of the killer? Red is where he would've entered and gone and blue is the route back out when finished. The 'X' markings are where murders physically occurred.

I put a question mark next to KG on the third floor because several reports had mentioned that she was in the process of moving out and that weekend was one of her final trips back before taking a job in another state I believe. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The question mark is it hasn't been confirmed yet that her bedding, frame, etc. was still in her room so there has been speculation that she was sleeping in MM's room.

The stairway you sketched out is actually the one that goes downstairs from the LR to the 1st floor.
The plans you have don't show the stairwell from the 2nd floor to the 3rd floor. I believe they are in the boxy area labeled as "Foyer" on those plans.

 

[websloth74]

I have been studying the area that Moscow PD has requested video footage from:

West Taylor Ave (north boundary)
West Palouse River Dr (south boundary)
Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary)
Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary)

A couple of things stood out to me:
They are basically looking at the area south of the university and not including the University itself. Is it because there are enough cameras on campus that they didn’t need any more footage or they didn’t spot any unusual movement there?
The north boundary of the area they are looking at is Taylor Rd. This is the road that runs between Greek Row and the victims‘ home.
The west boundary is the Arboretum/Botanical Gardens
The south boundary, W Palouse River Dr, is basically the southernmost east-west road in town.
The east boundary is Highway 95 S. This makes sense and squares off the area EXCEPT they want footage that goes all the way down 95S past W Palouse River Dr to the 2700 block. This is at the approximate location of Wasankari Construction which is at 2730.
When Moscow PD released their map, they showed a squared off area, but they weren’t showing W Palouse River Dr as the southern boundary. Why? Granted the 2700 block is less than a mile from the intersection but I think something, a vehicle, has caught their eye on 95 south of town and they are trying to track its movements that night.
Does Wasankari Construction have a video camera that showed something that caught their interest that night; a vehicle that may have been observed one or more times between 3:00 am and 6:00 am near the crime scene and then seen heading south out of town on Hwy 95?
I’ve attached 2 maps; the one released by Moscow PD and one I drew to explain what I am trying to say. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Thoughts?

If this is the case then they should know who it is based on cell phone pings. if the perp had no phone then he must be familiar with the directions to get there from the highway.

 

[Cryptic]

There was no slider on the ground floor; they were on the middle and top floors. And I don't believe LE ever confirmed an entry or exit point for the killer.

I think the confusion regarding the location of the sliding doors could stem from the quirky lay out of the house.

The house had been expanded at some point probably to create additional rooms / mini apartments for student renters and is a split level built on a hill side.

As a result, two different levels can be described as being the "ground floor" (depending on which direction one approaches the home from). One of the arguable ground floors has a sliding door.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

I have been studying the area that Moscow PD has requested video footage from:

West Taylor Ave (north boundary)
West Palouse River Dr (south boundary)
Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary)
Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary)

A couple of things stood out to me:
They are basically looking at the area south of the university and not including the University itself. Is it because there are enough cameras on campus that they didn’t need any more footage or they didn’t spot any unusual movement there?
The north boundary of the area they are looking at is Taylor Rd. This is the road that runs between Greek Row and the victims‘ home.
The west boundary is the Arboretum/Botanical Gardens
The south boundary, W Palouse River Dr, is basically the southernmost east-west road in town.
The east boundary is Highway 95 S. This makes sense and squares off the area EXCEPT they want footage that goes all the way down 95S past W Palouse River Dr to the 2700 block. This is at the approximate location of Wasankari Construction which is at 2730.
When Moscow PD released their map, they showed a squared off area, but they weren’t showing W Palouse River Dr as the southern boundary. Why? Granted the 2700 block is less than a mile from the intersection but I think something, a vehicle, has caught their eye on 95 south of town and they are trying to track its movements that night.
Does Wasankari Construction have a video camera that showed something that caught their interest that night; a vehicle that may have been observed one or more times between 3:00 am and 6:00 am near the crime scene and then seen heading south out of town on Hwy 95?
I’ve attached 2 maps; the one released by Moscow PD and one I drew to explain what I am trying to say. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Thoughts?

I had the same question as you about not requesting any camera footage north of Taylor ave.


Another Question I have is if there’s a video of a vehicle that is of interest that was caught on camera, why haven’t we seen it?

 

[ACG2x]

The stairway you sketched out is actually the one that goes downstairs from the LR to the 1st floor.
The plans you have don't show the stairwell from the 2nd floor to the 3rd floor. I believe they are in the boxy area labeled as "Foyer" on those plans.

Good catch! Yes, I believe you are right because those stairs look like the ones depicted in the real estate online pics somewhat hidden behind a half wall. So if the Foyer area is in fact the stairs to the third floor and the killer entered through where I noted, then perhaps the killer went in this order since the Foyer is much closer than XK/EC's bedroom from point of entry:

1. Enters through the area I noted
2. Goes to the Foyer/3F stairs first and goes up them
3. Murders KG/MM who I still think may have been sleeping in the same room given KG's status as a roommate at the time and they were out drinking together and texting JD deep in the night. Perhaps they just fell asleep or passed out in the same bed or room.
4. Heads downstairs but the commotion woke EC/XK. EC is in the process of going out to check when he encounters killer who attacks and disables him with the knife.
5. Heads into the 2F bedroom and attacks XK. This could be why her family has reported she fought hard - very possible she was awake at this point.
6. After he sees XK is dead walks past EC and finishes him off. EC then is the 'unconscious person' that the surviving roommates saw when coming upstairs in the morning because in this scenario he'd be somewhere between the Laundry area and main space and thus visible to them walking through the living room after coming up the stairs.

 

[The OG]

I just can't get over how many potentially risky situations this killer walked into to accomplish their goal. Let's assume killer was just walking in never having been into the house before.

1. Going into a house with 5-6 people minimum who may or may not fight back, not be asleep etc.
2. Going into multiple rooms where he didn't know the layout of beds, preseence of weapons etc.
3. Going into a house with MANY ways to exit.
4. Entering a house with at least 1 male who was fairly large in size.
5. Going into rooms not knowing what could be heard from rooms under, above or next to someone else.
6. Choosing a house with so much visibility to the houses around due to it's positioning.
7. Entering a home with a dog. As a lifelong Lab owner, my dogs might lay on someone coming in, freak out and bark, want to "play" and jump all over them thinking it was a game. They are such wildcards.
8. Entering a home potentially with so much technology, their's maybe included. Anyone could dial 911 if they heard something, their phone if they brought it could try to access the wifi, etc.

And so much more. It just really boggles the mind that this killer took so many risks, and thus far has managed to remain under the radar, at least publicly.

All of this leads me to believe there's a good possibility there was more than one attacker. I have two theories: lone attacker in a jealous rage or multiple attackers who I can't describe further without violating TOS

 

[OldCop]

So then is this very crude drawing I made the most likely path of the killer? Red is where he would've entered and gone and blue is the route back out when finished. The 'X' markings are where murders physically occurred.

I put a question mark next to KG on the third floor because several reports had mentioned that she was in the process of moving out and that weekend was one of her final trips back before taking a job in another state I believe. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The question mark is it hasn't been confirmed yet that her bedding, frame, etc. was still in her room so there has been speculation that she was sleeping in MM's room.

Looks good with the stairway correction. The only thing I’m still on the fence about is whether the killer went to the third floor first or last.
Did he go in to kill X or E and while in their room hear someone walking around upstairs?
Or did he go upstairs to kill first and bump into X or E on his way down?
Or was the plan all along to kill all four of them?

 

[hopewell]

The Sigma Chi house looks to be just across a large lawn area from the victim house. I saw a picture posted somewhere in the media that showed E inside the Sigma Chi house with his house shown clearly in the background over his shoulder. If someone came and went from that direction, it is doubtful much if any video evidence could be obtained along that route.

Brian Entin's on-scene video that was posted in the other thread shows just how dark it is around the area that time of night. If the lights were out in the home at that time, I just don't see how the perp could've committed these crimes so efficiently without vision aides.

My opinion.

 

[cujenn81]

I've put together a Google album of many of the photos posted in the news articles on the media thread. A link to the article where the image was obtained is listed in the description of each photo.

University of Idaho Press Photos

 

[OldCop]

The stairway you sketched out is actually the one that goes downstairs from the LR to the 1st floor.
The plans you have don't show the stairwell from the 2nd floor to the 3rd floor. I believe they are in the boxy area labeled as "Foyer" on those plans.

 

[DizzyB]

X’s bedroom is so far out of the way, especially if the killer entered through the kitchen sliders. There has to be evidence in the living room because the killer would have to cross through it and go down a hall to find the bedroom (passing right by the staircase to the lower level). If X slept in the bedroom by the stairs to the third floor, it would make more sense to me. But her bedroom was on the complete opposite of the house.

 

[OldCop]

I had the same question as you about not requesting any camera footage north of Taylor ave.


Another Question I have is if there’s a video of a vehicle that is of interest that was caught on camera, why haven’t we seen it?

My thought is that because it is a college town and kids stay out late, there may have been numerous vehicles driving around during those hours, not as many as earlier in the evening obviously, but enough that they still haven’t got enough to pinpoint one.
When they get it down to a couple or three, LE may put out a description or photo or video clip saying they are trying to identify the owner of such and such vehicle who may have information or be a witness. They did this in the Michael Vaughan case when there were a couple of vehicles seen driving in the neighborhood around the time he disappeared and which they were not able to identify.
Aside from asking people who may have been in the area on the night of the killings to come forward, you can’t just put out a BOLO on any vehicle driving around that evening.

 

[SteveP]

Did anyone watch the latest Nancy Grace? I don't have access, but I'm hearing she made some wild claims about having inside information. I've learned from her coverage of cases local to me that she is blatantly wrong A LOT, but I'd be curious to read a transcript.

Respectfully, NG, as often as not, gets well-established information wrong when reporting, so I would be highly suspect of any "inside information" she may share. JMO

 

[OldCop]

I suppose we may need to wait months then.

Hopefully not. LE are still doing the old fashioned investigators’ work that managed to solve crimes before the onslaught of digital data while they wait for the results to come in.

 

[BlueTunes]

JMO

I suspect whomever done this was known to the roommates. Even invited him over before. That's why LE can’t list him as a suspect through DNA. They have his DNA at the scene. Not blood but an other source. That’s why they can’t go off the DNA evidence alone to prove he is the killer. All the suspect has to say is “Of course my DNA was at the house! They were my friends. They had me over before!”. He would unfortunately be correct. I imagine it would be incredibly difficult to get a conviction off his DNA being there because of that.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I've put together a Google album of many of the photos posted in the news articles on the media thread. A link to the article where the image was obtained is listed in the description of each photo.

University of Idaho Press Photos

Nice work Thank you!

 

[Crumble]

Good catch! Yes, I believe you are right because those stairs look like the ones depicted in the real estate online pics somewhat hidden behind a half wall. So if the Foyer area is in fact the stairs to the third floor and the killer entered through where I noted, then perhaps the killer went in this order since the Foyer is much closer than XK/EC's bedroom from point of entry:

1. Enters through the area I noted
2. Goes to the Foyer/3F stairs first and goes up them
3. Murders KG/MM who I still think may have been sleeping in the same room given KG's status as a roommate at the time and they were out drinking together and texting JD deep in the night. Perhaps they just fell asleep or passed out in the same bed or room.
4. Heads downstairs but the commotion woke EC/XK. EC is in the process of going out to check when he encounters killer who attacks and disables him with the knife.
5. Heads into the 2F bedroom and attacks XK. This could be why her family has reported she fought hard - very possible she was awake at this point.
6. After he sees XK is dead walks past EC and finishes him off. EC then is the 'unconscious person' that the surviving roommates saw when coming upstairs in the morning because in this scenario he'd be somewhere between the Laundry area and main space and thus visible to them walking through the living room after coming up the stairs.

Why head into XK bedroom if he the attacker hasn't been seen, why not just run away at that point. I wonder whether XK saw him, maybe she knew him?

 

[Crumble]

Looks good with the stairway correction. The only thing I’m still on the fence about is whether the killer went to the third floor first or last.
Did he go in to kill X or E and while in their room hear someone walking around upstairs?
Or did he go upstairs to kill first and bump into X or E on his way down?
Or was the plan all along to kill all four of them?

Based on the fact that it was apparently a targeted attack, I rule out XK since she had a boyfriend so I think it's more likely the target is on floor 3 so he went up there first.

 

[Missyrocks5]

I have been studying the area that Moscow PD has requested video footage from:

West Taylor Ave (north boundary)
West Palouse River Dr (south boundary)
Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary)
Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary)

A couple of things stood out to me:
They are basically looking at the area south of the university and not including the University itself. Is it because there are enough cameras on campus that they didn’t need any more footage or they didn’t spot any unusual movement there?
The north boundary of the area they are looking at is Taylor Rd. This is the road that runs between Greek Row and the victims‘ home.
The west boundary is the Arboretum/Botanical Gardens
The south boundary, W Palouse River Dr, is basically the southernmost east-west road in town.
The east boundary is Highway 95 S. This makes sense and squares off the area EXCEPT they want footage that goes all the way down 95S past W Palouse River Dr to the 2700 block. This is at the approximate location of Wasankari Construction which is at 2730.
When Moscow PD released their map, they showed a squared off area, but they weren’t showing W Palouse River Dr as the southern boundary. Why? Granted the 2700 block is less than a mile from the intersection but I think something, a vehicle, has caught their eye on 95 south of town and they are trying to track its movements that night.
Does Wasankari Construction have a video camera that showed something that caught their interest that night; a vehicle that may have been observed one or more times between 3:00 am and 6:00 am near the crime scene and then seen heading south out of town on Hwy 95?
I’ve attached 2 maps; the one released by Moscow PD and one I drew to explain what I am trying to say. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Thoughts?

This is very interesting. I’ve made a few posts saying for a while now that I think the killer maybe even lived in the apartment complex right near them & had such a head start. Maybe he changed clothing or peeled off clothing/shoes in the house so he didn’t track blood outside, assuming that there is no track, and then walked right into his car. He then could’ve driven to dispose of evidence, and a murder weapon, with absolutely no one looking for him. With 9 hours to spare.

Plus, we now know that due to the low murder rate and apparently crime, there are not tons of cameras around there. It very well makes sense that the killer is local and knew that. IMO. My theory.

 

[mungos]

Just a few thoughts; night vision googles would have been more detrimental than helpful w neon signs & fairy lights.

A Kabar is very much used as a utility knife, spouse is a retired Marine w multiple combat deployments. It got regular use camping, opening Amazon, household chores, hunting, fishing, opening MRE’s, etc. His kabar was first & foremost a tool. It could be employed as a weapon if absolutely necessary, but that wasn’t its purpose. Earlier threads saw posts that seem to imply all US military, including ROTC students have been trained to break into homes & incapacitate folks with knifes, they haven’t. ROTC students are training to compete for Officer positions; studying leadership, ethics, geopolitics, etc while being introduced to military customs, land navigation, military tactics, marksmanship, and maintaining/achieving fitness. While service members will receive personal protection/hand to hand combat training as part of their standard military training (branch specific) the ONLY members who would be training to sneak into houses & kill people quietly would be elite special forces units which are a very small percentage of the military.

this also crossed my mind but I remained restrained. if it was about one person, he knew very well what he was doing. killed four people with a knife in such silence. the neighbor above the victim's house also confirmed that her dog did not bark, and according to her, it should have, considering the stranger around their house and such a crime.

But in a twist that adds to the mystery of what happened to Madison and her friends, neighbors living in the homes backing onto the home and whose property would have been part of any escape route on foot said they heard and seen nothing.

Cynthia Mika, 70, told DailyMail.com that police had been to her home to ask for video but said all was quiet on the night the students died.

She said: 'We didn't hear a thing. Our neighbors have a dog who barks and he would have woken us up if he saw anything. He didn't bark.'