ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[debirlfan]

The calls between 2:26-2:52 were made on the dead girls' phones, but are we sure it was the girls who made the calls?

But if someone else made the calls, if he had picked up, then what do they do? It would have made more sense to text.

 

[whirrledpeas]

Some degree of psychopathology is needed to explain this, I agree. The term is now at play again in the academic literature because such people usually have multiple sets of psychiatric symptoms. Of course, they can be found in the non-criminal world as well. It's the brazenness of this crime that makes me think psychopathology. Unfortunately, it's not easy to diagnose out in the real world (in terms of profiling - once the person is caught, they will almost certainly have that pattern of brain behavior). Lots of people with this type of brain do not commit horrific crimes, but they do other things that some of us might wonder about.

Mary Ellen O’Toole needs to get her butt to Moscow, stat.

 

[cottonweaver]

What is Mr. Goncalves saying in this interview? “ When you commit a crime, you have different behaviors”. And he has an inkling about the victims’ behaviors?

sorry I wasn't sure myself either.

best interpretation I have is....

Steve was told that when deciding whether one particular victim was more of a target than the rest of the victims, LE usually spot some signs of a different ' behaviour footprint' * by the perp.

( later on in the interview, because Steve is tired/ is grieving he says he was referring to victim not perp but I just think it was Steve mis-speaking)

* at the crime scene the perp may treat one victim differently to another, even though manner of death & weapon is the same. eg. they might return to the body again, or pose the body, treat the clothing or personal possessions differently, use knife in different ways compared to the rest of victims ( location of stabbings, how deep, the force used)

there'll be more examples but IDK off-hand what they are

edited to add:
however just because say, Kaylee or A.N. Other had more of his 'attention' during the offence I'm not convinced that necessarily means she was targeted in advance, unless LE already have other evidence ( eg this was her stalker)
You'd need to check with a psychology person on WS, but someone as sick as this might just treat one victim differently once he's inside the property. What if something is triggered in him during the attack, the way she reacts or his past issues with particulate women she might remind him of? IDK and I doubt they can be sure without other evidence

 

[TIGER0822]

Interesting. This strikes me as odd:
“Father says it is ‘pretty much a fact’ that the perp would show up at any funeral service and follow the case online. Family don’t want to hold service now as they wouldn’t want to ‘exclude anyone.’”

Who would be “excluded,” then? Would he be excluding someone based on suspicion and wants to wait to hold the funeral until that person is cleared, so he/she could go?

Is this the victim that allegedly had a stalker?

If the residence was targeted could the reason relate back to the owner of that house? Someone with a history to the owner that wanted to inflict revenge, chaos, reprisal knowing that murdering these kids would impact this owner in many, many ways. Of course, my thinking only as we try to figure out how the 'house' could be the target and the kids were not

It is a cryptic message:
My first interpretation is that one of the four killed victims had committed some crime and behavior changed after that leading to the killing. But that didn't make sense. He only had access to Kaylee's phone
My second thought was that one or both of the survivors changed their behavior after the murders, but that would be 100% expected.

It is a cryptic message:
My first interpretation is that one of the four killed victims had committed some crime and behavior changed after that leading to the killing. But that didn't make sense. He only had access to Kaylee's phone
My second thought was that one or both of the survivors changed their behavior after the murders, but that would be 100% expected.

 

[Emerald1328]

Wondering where you saw the sixth roommate was actually in the house and survived? I understand the most recent press release by MPD indicated this person is on the lease but was not present at the house?

Not believed to be at the house.

 

[acutename]

I find it difficult to believe that an investigator would say something like that without specific evidence to back it up. Was there something at the scene that made the detectives deduce that the knife was coveted?

My opinion.

that has been my feeling because the knife was the killer's "power" so s/he would not want to discard it IMO

 

[Celt1997]

Not sure if the 6th person should be considered a "roommate" at this point. Having a name on a lease is not the same as having a residence there. As others have pointed out, it could easily be a co-signer for someone's credit, or for liability purposes.

 

[Sandy007]

did LE have no choice but add it to their official statement because the media have reported it?

also, wondering who told the media?

This may be related to 'targeting residence' part of the LE statement. The perpetrator targeted this residence because tenant no 6 lives there/supposed to be living there. The target was none of the victims, but tenant no 6.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Interesting. This strikes me as odd:
“Father says it is ‘pretty much a fact’ that the perp would show up at any funeral service and follow the case online. Family don’t want to hold service now as they wouldn’t want to ‘exclude anyone.’”

Who would be “excluded,” then? Would he be excluding someone based on suspicion and wants to wait to hold the funeral until that person is cleared, so he/she could go?

Agree. I totally took this that he knows who it is they suspect. Someone‘s alibi isn’t checking out. It’s someone who would come to the funeral and I guess be around them. My guess is it’s someone that was previously “ruled out” which again, was said be ruling them out “at this time”. That’s not the same as eliminated forever as a suspect.

If it’s someone from their circle, that person’s dna would be at the house. To me, they would have to get the search for the house/apt and car wherever they live to see if the four victims‘ blood is over there. How do you get probable cause to search those now? That would prove the case. But again, all these breadcrumbs could make the suspect flee or it’s not good for the case. And if it is someone from that circle of people they knew, how is that person acting normal? How are the existing? Only a stone cold sociopath could act normal after they just slaughtered 4 people? How are they not like throwing up all the time, curled up in a fetal position, or just a total basket case keeping it together in front of family at Thanksgiving etc. That’s what I don’t get. And if K was the target, why did they kill X & E? To make it look less obvious who they were after? Can you imagine what a psychopath were talking about that they were able to kill two other people just to try to keep someone off their trail? Or I guess that they had a beef with all 4?

 

[JaimeInLA]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598500128150949888

 

[Sandy007]

Could a parent have co-signed the lease for one of the girls, particularly if they had a spotty rental or credit history?

And could be that parent the target, not the students?

 

[Newb7961]

Exactly

Some degree of psychopathology is needed to explain this, I agree. The term is now at play again in the academic literature because such people usually have multiple sets of psychiatric symptoms. Of course, they can be found in the non-criminal world as well. It's the brazenness of this crime that makes me think psychopathology. Unfortunately, it's not easy to diagnose out in the real world (in terms of profiling - once the person is caught, they will almost certainly have that pattern of brain behavior). Lots of people with this type of brain do not commit horrific crimes, but they do other things that some of us might wonder about.

“It's the brazenness of this crime that makes me think psychopathology.”

Blind rage can account for the brazenness, methinks.

 

[Normamsmiley]

Not believed to be at the house.

You can be on a lease and not live there or be a roommate.

Could have previously been a roommate.

Could be a new roommate who hasn’t moved in.

Could be a co-signer.

The fact that said did not use the word roommate on their PR probably means it was an individual did not currently live there.

 

[alex dvport]

If we are to take LE and coroner’s word on possible hilt bruising, then no, I don’t think a sword would be a possible murder weapon.

Thanks! I missed the info about the bruising. I appreciate the info!

 

[fviofrgn]

What you have described above is RANDOM.
Otherwise going by what you're saying, means everyone who gets murdered is a target. Which they are not.

There's targeted and there's random. There is no combining the two.

Random implies not knowing the victims or anything about them - a complete impulse murder. Fate, roll of the dice etc.

Targeting implies a level of knowing something about them, or their lives - OR the perp having chosen them for some reason, however small.

IMO LE said it was targeted when they should’ve called it an isolated incident. I think they said “targeted” to convey the sense that there was no broader threat. I don’t know if LE are being that deliberate with their wording (although they should be) given the flip flopping going on.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

G) Mental illness involving paranoia (See Donald Lunde's excellent book, Murder and Madness)
H) Mental illness involving delusions
I) Shared social setting (such as a local hang-out) where conflict between perp and one or more victims had occurred
J) There's a grievance collector in the area who also fits DSM criteria for disordered thinking

There is no DSM criteria for disordered thinking. Disordered thinking isn't a diagnosis.

I also don't believe a person with legitimate mental illness, the symptom of which is disordered thinking, could carry out this crime. A crime like this requires organizational skills and executive function that individuals with severe mental illness often lack when they decompensate.

 

[10ofRods]

I can't help but think the girls' playful and carefree nature, perhaps flirty nature, played a role in why they were targeted. (Yes, I do think MM and KG were the targets.) A sexually frustrated man, older than college age, with some military/weaponry knowledge, who felt ignored or rejected and decided to get revenge. He staked out the house for days or even weeks, and got a feel for their routines before he made his move. He would have killed everyone in the home, but started getting nervous (maybe heard something) and left without going to the first level. We don't know if the survivors heard anything, or got up from bed and made noise (flushed a toilet, turned on a faucet, opened a drawer) while the killer was there.

Add in: with a major and observable psychiatric diagnosis and I'll be on board with this scenario or similar.

Most people who know weapons and are rejected do not commit a quadruple murder. Full stop. There are some unique and visible psychological traits in this person - and that's the part that's hard for LE to pin down (DNA is even better, but absent that, the psychological profile is important).

 

[Emerald1328]

You can be on a lease and not live there or be a roommate.

Could have previously been a roommate.

Could be a new roommate who hasn’t moved in.

Could be a co-signer.

The fact that said did not use the word roommate on their PR probably means it was an individual did not currently live there.

Agree. Then they should have just said this person was NOT at the residence, instead of “not believed”. They have to know how much power their words have after what they have gone through with statements the past few days.

 

[BlueTunes]

exactly how someone could break into a house with 6 roommates without fear.
The house was NOT isolated, and there was more than one victim. It's a brazen and bold crime.

JMO Unless he was planning on killing himself after he was finished but chickened out and left the scene.

 

[WildWest]

I agree with you, to me it means the exact same thing.

I paid for a neighborhood billboard to be painted, It was supposed to say "Residents Only Beyond This Point", it was painted "Residence Only Past This Point" Two different things to me.