ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

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When the word targeted came into play early in this investigation there seemed to be the idea that there was maybe one victim that was the focus. But as we all know LE has done very little to clarify exactly they meant by targeted. So we are left to wonder are they talking about a person, multiple persons, or the house. In reality I can see all three possibilities. But either LE knows way more than they are letting on (I hope this is the case), or they have no idea at this point of what actually happened. LE seems to be struggling with information getting out through the familes. Possibly we have learned more info from the families recently than LE. But, I feel we need to be careful when taking information from the families. They are understandably grief stricken and I can't imagine the amount of pain they are sufferring, not to mention the anger, and I am sure they want to help any way they can. But I can't help but wonder if they aren't following rumors or theories put forth by other people and are making statements based on those? Am I off base here?
 
no. if there is probable cause for arrest, le can still find evidence and build the case prior to trial.
The burden of proof must be met during the trial. that's different than probable cause for arrest. And a jury doesn't find 'reasonable doubt' until the trial, and if a better suspect is brought to trial, then perhaps there's a reason for that. often, prosecutors will even hire their own investigators after an arrest has been made and while they build the case.

Still seems the better practice would be to build as strong a case as possible before making an arrest. Guilty verdicts are tough to get when someone else was previously arrested for the same crime.
 
The segment is muddy as heck. X’s mom “thinks” it “likely” X had a lock on her bedroom. She doesn’t know if X’s dad fixed a lock on X’s bedroom or some other door in the house.

As I already mentioned, most leases, at least here, prohibit tenants from doing anything with locks — the owner/landlord/PM/agent are the only ones authorized to make those repairs/replacements.

JMHO, I’m not willing to speculate about something that’s second-hand unclear info from a desperate mom with no direct knowledge. That NASA comment made me break into tears.

Looking forward to follow-up on this info!
For those interested in what X’s dad had to say about X’ demeanor & his visit the alleged weekend of the supposed lock change:
‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker
 
I get the feeling that LE is not offering enough info for people to make connections, perhaps they are holding too much back?..Moscow is a small town, people know each others business, yet, nobody is having an “aha, I see” moment. It’s like we are all in the dark fumbling.
I think this is an excellent point. With the caveat that LE knows much more than we do: If the killer is part of the Moscow community (whether as a student, perhaps as a fraternity or sorority member, or as a townsperson) and isn't completely isolated, I would think someone around him would have noticed something. And then, especially given the horrible nature of the crime, they probably would have talked, and they or someone else would have told LE.

I certainly hope that's already happened. If it hasn't, here are some possibilities:
  • The killer is from out of town
  • The killer is isolated
  • The killer managed to hide their tracks
  • Others in town know or suspect who the killer is, but they're hiding something.
(I'm from a small town, admittedly smaller than Moscow, Idaho.)

JMO
 
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Not sure if this has been discussed yet but according to the tenant in 2019, he claimed that at that time each room had a code lock. This would make sense as to why the 911 call was made to check on an unresponsive person. If roommates get up, friends come over, and no one has heard from the other roommates. They may have been knocking on their locked doors, yelling their names, calling and texting them with no answer. Possibly blood seen somewhere. So they called 911 saying that their roommate or roommates need a wellness check because they are unresponsive. Then police come and break into rooms.
The girls had only lived there for 5 months. Possibly someone knew the lock codes. Or maybe someone associated with the leasing agency knew the master code to access the rooms. Maybe they were stalked/watched/targeted in those five months.

I think it's just as likely the doors weren't locked when the perp entered. Many people (not all of us, but many!) wouldn't see a need to lock the bedroom door while they're inside and live with friends.

Your 911 call theory is more or less what I've thought all along. I suspect, however, that 'unresponsive' is a term the dispatcher used, not what the callers stated unprompted. LE obviously has reasons for wanting to keep the details private, and I think that's just fine.
 
MOO and thoughts-- I've wondered if the killer took any cell phone with him, and think perhaps they didn't. I don't know if using just the flashlight would bounce off a tower, probably not, but holding a phone and a knife makes it harder to attack, more chance of dropping it. Wish the killer did lost an item at the scene that could be traced.

I took @slanda's advice and read up on the Danny Rolling murders and in one he thought he left his wallet at the crime scene. When he went back to look for it, he mutilated the body of his victim in an unspeakable way for me to describe here. (too graphic)
Yeah. The Rollings murders are horrific. The movie Scream was based off of them, actually.

What’s odd about Rollings (among all the other oddities) is that his first murders was that of a Family Annihilator while stalking a younger woman. He killed 4 then…

After that atrocity, and becoming a poly drug user, he lived a vagrant lifestyle near Gainesville and randomly chose his victims during his murder spree that spanned three days… And it was truly awful and terrifying.

Then, he robbed a bank and got caught by the police where he I think eventually admitted to everything and blaming his murders on an alternate personality.

My point is: this despicable human committed so many crimes and no one put them together until he talked, basically. His profile and MO was all over the place. I think maybe he’d have been a little more organized if he wasn’t a poly substance abuser. He said he murdered the girls he targeted (one at a restaurant and two at the local convenience store) because they resembled his ex wife and obviously found them by chance— and two of the people he killed during that spree were basically “just in the way.”

I thought of him because his first victims were sleeping when he jimmied a sliding glass door and walked past his target, who was asleep on the couch to murder her sleeping roommate upstairs, which he did. He was armed with a knife and a gun (for control) and he covered her mouth with duct tape and killed her with a Ka-Bar so his target wouldn’t wake up and hear him because he wanted his time in his disgusting fantasy world to be with her.

(The first murders In Gainesville is the reason I specifically thought of Rollings because it’s hard to figure out how someone would accomplish what the Idaho killer did— and besides Bundy, he fit that description for me.)

That’s why the police were baffled and hauled away the wrong person because Rollings’ MO was totally random and really reckless and difficult to understand.

And it’s a good example of how profiles sometimes do and don’t match and how random brutal crimes do sometimes occur to purely innocent victims and how sometimes the motive of these really awful crimes aren’t ever known unless the murderer is caught and explains it. It’s just really difficult on so many levels to try and get into these people’s brains to understand how they could do this to four innocent people.

Obviously, it could very well be someone even in their friend group that did this. I just think with so many eyes around that people would notice if the perpetrator was acting different, or funny, or something? I would think everyone is looking at each other with a little hesitation, and after three weeks and the longer it takes, it gets harder to solve as more people get ruled out.

**Edited for clarity
 
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Not sure if this has been discussed yet but according to the tenant in 2019, he claimed that at that time each room had a code lock. This would make sense as to why the 911 call was made to check on an unresponsive person. If roommates get up, friends come over, and no one has heard from the other roommates. They may have been knocking on their locked doors, yelling their names, calling and texting them with no answer. Possibly blood seen somewhere. So they called 911 saying that their roommate or roommates need a wellness check because they are unresponsive. Then police come and break into rooms.
The girls had only lived there for 5 months. Possibly someone knew the lock codes. Or maybe someone associated with the leasing agency knew the master code to access the rooms. Maybe they were stalked/watched/targeted in those five months.
More recent SM photos shown on Banfield appear to show completely different bedroom doorknobs ~without~ code locks. IDK -just MOO
 
I have been following this since the first day and it's very clear to me that there is a lot of speculation, so I haven't wanted to read the forums for at least the last few days. Lots of newbies who don't get the rules.

It is so clear to me why the police are not saying anything. People have shown, for whatever reason, that they cannot be trusted not to share any bit of info with the public. It is a feeding frenzy, which will jeopardise any chance of conviction.

Do we want this monster to be on the streets, merely because we need to satisfy our own need to speculate/seek information? SMH.

Very true. Not only that - professional reporters have, on multiple occasions, misstated what is written on MPD's press releases! It's an impossible task for LE.
 
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Just to clarify, Brian said KG herself felt that she had a stalker so it wasn’t a conjecture 100% put forth by the parents simply on the basis that they were pretty. The parents just wouldn’t have been terribly surprised if it was true.
Correct but then her sister said she didn’t. It was sort of a confusing segment but the reporter basically summarized it for me and I almost regurgitated it verbatim because the explanations of a stalker sort of went circular for awhile… But the end result so far is that there is no evidence and they reported it as guessing one or more of the girls must have had a stalker because they were pretty.
 
Been inside the house years ago and changes have been made since the (the article states)
Four years ago, house has been remodeled and expanded to put in a couple more bedrooms.

"If two people were in the lower level it would not be necessary for the killer to go downstairs or to pass by their bedrooms when the crime was committed if they had accessed into and out of the upper floor."
 
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"There are two separate entries and this house lays against a hill," Leroy said. "If a perpetrator went into the lower level off the parking lot, they would enter into a general living room area and a kitchen area with a couple of bedrooms and the back of a first floor. If the perpetrator entered into the second floor, they would have done so higher up the hill to almost a separate section of the house, which contains bedrooms and bathrooms on the second and third floor, where apparently, according to reports, most of the killings took place."

This is interesting. If the person went through the back, if not familiar with the layout, they might not have been aware of the lower floor/bedrooms. Almost suggest someone unfamiliar with the student's home. Though it seems strange that the person wouldn't wonder where the living room or kitchen was.

On the other hand..Do we know the student's habits? Did they lock doors at night? Did landlord ever change the lock/keys between tenants or were there dozens and dozens of keys/duplicates out there from previous student/renters/maintenance workers over the many years? Any recent contractors or inspections?

 
Correct but then her sister said she didn’t. It was sort of a confusing segment but the reporter basically summarized it for me and I almost regurgitated it verbatim because the explanations of a stalker sort of went circular for awhile… But the end result so far is that there is no evidence and they reported it as guessing one or more of the girls must have had a stalker because they were pretty.
So many confusing often contradictory messages in this case that’s for sure. Very frustrating
 
POI is a relatively new terminology in crime investigation.

Let's just call them "possibles."

There are probably a few, and LEA has many eyes on all of them.

Citation? I don't believe POI is a recent term. And I highly doubt LE would be putting "eyes on" people who aren't considered a suspect. Not an area of my expertise though, so I'd love to hear from someone more knowledgeable.
 
In multi-student housing on and off campus, most rooms have locks. It is a pretty common feature. I know my son's 5 bed unit has locks on all the bedroom doors. Common space is shared. Similar to dorms or Pods.

My son locks his door at night. Mainly because there are many young adults in and out visiting friends. Some like to party. Nothing worse than a drunk person stumbling into your room at night.
Are you in Moscow?

Some off-campus housing is definitely like that, as are many single residence homes. And some apartment complexes here will “lock off” a bedroom for a slight rent reduction if they don’t have a suitable unit available.

I have ~never~ seen code locks on bedroom doors here.

Source: former HQS Inspector
 
Citation? I don't believe POI is a recent term. And I highly doubt LE would be putting "eyes on" people who aren't considered a suspect. Not an area of my expertise though, so I'd love to hear from someone more knowledgeable.
By recent, I mean in the past 25 years or so.

Back in the day, we just called them suspects.
 
The previous thread closed before I could say this, but @Allabouttrial thank you so much for transcribing the interview with Kaylee’s father! (and every other interview/press conference you’ve done!)
Yes, thank you. And does anyone understand Steve Goncalves' statement where he states that behaviors change when a crime is committed, but when asked whose behavior, he indicates Kaylee??
 
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