ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[Helechawagirl]

I've been wondering what it means for a house, as a whole, to be targeted. Could it be their household modem/router/IP history? What internet platforms were in use?

I may be wrong but I think the house being targeted is for a crime of opportunity scenario where not personal but lot of people coming and going—easy to get in and out—relatively secluded in back—several girls. We just don’t have enough evidence to settle on any one theory.

 

[slanda]

Yep. How would killer know that sidetracking to kill others first would not produce a ruckus, ie victims fighting back.

Danny Rolling (The Gainesville Slayer), killed two sleeping women roommates on the first night of his Gainesville killing spree.

He first saw his target female at the local convenience store he was at while living as a vagrant near the campus.

He followed her home and scoped out her house.

He waited for the two collage age girls to fall asleep and jimmied the sliding door lock and was armed with a gun and a KABAR knife.

The following is a direct copy/transcript from the Supreme Court of FL Court Docs regarding the facts of this case, also linked below:

FACTS OF THE CASE

“The record reflects that in the early morning hours of August 24, 1990, Danny Rolling, armed with both an automatic pistol and a Marine Corps K-Bar knife, broke through the rear door of an apartment shared by college students Sonya Larson and Christina Powell.   Upon entering the apartment, Rolling observed Christina Powell asleep on the downstairs couch.   He stood over her briefly, but did not awaken her.

Rolling then crept upstairs where he found Sonya Larson asleep in her bedroom.   After pausing to decide with which young woman he desired to have sexual relations, he attacked Ms. Larson as she lay in her bed, stabbing her first in the upper chest area.   He then placed a double strip of duct tape over her mouth to muffle her cries and continued to stab her as she unsuccessfully attempted to fend off his blows.   During the attack, she was stabbed on her arms and received a slashing blow to her left thigh.   Ms. Larson maintained consciousness for less than a minute and died as a direct result of the stab wounds inflicted by Rolling.

After killing Ms. Larson, Rolling returned to the downstairs of the apartment where Ms. Powell remained asleep.   He pressed a double strip of tape over her mouth and taped her hands behind her back.   Rolling cut off her clothing and undergarments with the K-Bar knife and sexually battered Ms. Powell, threatening her with the knife.   Thereafter, Rolling forced her to lie facedown on the floor near the couch and stabbed her five times in the back, causing her death.   Rolling posed the bodies of the victims and left the apartment.”


He went on a killing spree that weekend and murdered three other people all of whom were awake. He jimmied the sliding glass door in every case and on the second day of his spree actually waited for his lone victim behind her wall cabinet to return home and ambushed her.

He confessed to all of this.

Killing people while other people are sleeping in the same house is not uncommon. There are many examples throughout the last 125+ years on record.

It’s also not uncommon for killers to enter and roam dwellings they’ve never been in before and be “successful”— unfortunately.

ROLLING v. STATE (1997) | FindLaw

Case opinion for FL Supreme Court ROLLING v. STATE. Read the Court's full decision on FindLaw.

caselaw.findlaw.com

**Edited for clarity.

 

[layer]

The father has pretty much been saying Kaylee got the worst of it without saying.

Yes, but only the worst between K & M.

 

[layer]

I've been wondering what it means for a house, as a whole, to be targeted. Could it be their household modem/router/IP history? What internet platforms were in use?

To me it means it was a Soft Target.

 

[Crashman]

I put this together a few days ago and linked the original author of the drawings. These are not my drawings.

I added a possible path through the house. After entering the house, the suspect may have checked the living room and main floor for witnesses first. That led to the first two murders. After the second floor murders, the suspect had the choice to go upstairs, or downstairs. It sounds like one of the third floor victims had a different cause of death than other victims.

The Manner of Death is homicide.

View attachment 385008

I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that the kids on the first floor could not hear two people being murdered right above them. the door to Xana’s room is literally a few feet away from the open stairwell and one room is directly beneath her room. She had defensive wounds implying she fought back. Truly baffling.

 

[CeeMDubs]

If I’m being completely honest, it actually bothers me how much credit is being given to this killer at times. He very easily could have been a disorganized, fumbling individual who just so happened to pull off a crime of this magnitude due to dumb luck.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If according to Kaylee's dad, his daughter was the alleged target of the killer, I can't help but wonder why the killer would plan the brutal attack on Sat evening, the most likely day that E (strong, male guest) would be present, knowing that he could attack any other day without the threat of encountering a big guy like E. This doesn't follow...

Instead, it definitely makes me ask whether or not E was the target of the psycho-killer. Logic indicates it is better to attack E in a house with three (or possibly five) petite women than his own frat house full of young men.

And if E was the target of the killer, I can also see the killer taking out the three women (collateral damage) that in the mind of the deranged killer -- could even be intended to publicly shame big E who by all accounts was a prince of a guy.

IMO, I think the killer is feeling very proud of himself and will not be able to resist bragging about his conquest.

There really is nobody better at this sort of profiling than the FBI and I don't doubt they are all over the sites they believe the killer is likely to visit.

Good point about E but hopefully, you're right about LE and the FBI will figure it out.

 

[KPO]

Given the amount of discussion on here around K and M being killed second, I had always assumed this was a confirmed fact? Do we even know the order of attack in terms of E & A vs M & K?

They have definitely not released the order in which they were killed.

 

[Seattle1]

You do realize that Brian’s source here is most likely K’s dad? This is all stuff K’s dad has said in previous interviews, being delivered in such a way that makes it look like confirmed facts from an anonymous LE source.

MOO

I watched Brian Entin arrive in Moscow where his first order of business was to attempt to confirm facts about the investigation beginning with the County Prosecutor. Next, it was the Univ Dean of Students and the PIO for the Moscow PD. And now his focus has turned towards supporting the families and giving them a platform. He's committed to this case and says he's not leaving Moscow anytime soon.

Brian did an after-program Q & A on Twitter tonight where he answered that Kaylee's wounds were being compared to only Maddie's wounds.

Also confirmed that the family does NOT believe Kaylee had a stalker.

(I previously used the word drama queen, and Brian used the word nervous Nellie to describe Kaylee per her mom's description of her daughter's behavior when constantly describing her surroundings).

IMO, the above is what makes Brian so good at his job, and why both the victims and the public trust and embrace him.

Brian Entin Twitter @BrianEntin

 

[citizen_sleuth]

What you didn't say is whether the person that did the stabbing was a student. That's the key factor.

When I was in college, someone shot multiple people on a public street located just yards from campus. One of the victims was a student AND the shooter was a grad student (law). I'm 99% sure that my college was found partially at fault because he had been referred to their mental health department at some point. I'm 100% positive that the shooter ended up suing his private psychiatrist and winning. They had 5-6 sessions together but the psychiatrist was retiring. The student didn't ask to be referred elsewhere and claims the psychiatrist didn't make it clear how serious his diagnosis was or make sure that he was in the care of another psychiatrist.

The system is not always just. (And also, the grad student had stopped taking his meds...but apparently others were still at fault.)

That’s a totally different situation, but as of right now, we have no reason to believe the university did anything wrong (not to say that can’t change in the future once a suspect is in custody).

 

[TKG]

5 cars were removed from the crime scene.

Excellent point.
RR-KG
Jeep- EC
small White- XK
any ideas on the last two? What did MM drive?

 

[otto]

This has been posted elsewhere but some might not have seen it. Security camera location was the corner house. View attachment 385043

It's possible that the suspect parked on Taylor Ave and walked the stairs and footpath to the house. The circle is the house with the camera - pointed away from the mass murder house. The murders could have happened without the ring camera capturing anything.

The arrow is the footpath to the house and possibly around to the back of the house

 

[WildWest]

If according to Kaylee's dad, his daughter was the alleged target of the killer, I can't help but wonder why the killer would plan the brutal attack on Sat evening, the most likely day that E (strong, male guest) would be present, knowing that he could attack any other day without the threat of encountering a big guy like E. This doesn't follow...

In my experience when college kids fall in love they spend every night of the week together. imo, my observation from way back when I was in college.

 

[drmrgrl]

I’ve listened to SG’s interview several times now and agree he’s inferring one victim’s condition was different than the others but I think he’s referring to the brutality of attack rather than the cause of death. All 4 victims were stabbed to death.

The reporter assumed he was referring to M vs. K’s “means of death” differing but I don’t think SG caught that so he didn’t correct him. His next statement “he didn’t have to go up the stairs” indicates to me it was Ethan and/or X’s death that was more brutal than either of the girls upstairs.

MOO

I think the inference is that “ he didn’t have to go upstairs” to kill K and M because the perp already killed whom he came to kill on the second floor.

 

[layer]

If according to Kaylee's dad, his daughter was the alleged target of the killer, I can't help but wonder why the killer would plan the brutal attack on Sat evening, the most likely day that E (strong, male guest) would be present, knowing that he could attack any other day without the threat of encountering a big guy like E. This doesn't follow...

Great point! And I believe I read that E&X didn't sleep there the night before.

 

[EmmieA]

My recollection regarding the video at the Grub Truck was that M was noticeably more intoxicated than K. M paid for the food, took pics while waiting for the food talked to the cashier while M had problems just standing still . If anything, out of the two of them being assaulted while asleep, I think M would have been least likely to awaken whereas K could possibly have resisted or was more reactive to getting stabbed so the assailant made sure that he stabbed her more than M. So it's possible the level of violence inflicted on K had more to do with her being reactive than being the target.

And because I don't know whether SG was advised of the wounds inflicted on X and E it's quite possible that E endured more wounds than X and K and M, not because he was a target but was viewed as an existential threat to the killer's survival.

You might have them mixed up: K payed for the food & took pics while waiting for the food & in general wasn’t standing still.

MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

Agreed.

Somewhat unrealistic to think if the target is on the 3rd floor, the perp would kill anyone on the 2nd floor first. Killing those on the 2nd floor would mean that the perp should actually kill everyone on the 1st floor first. So the killer would have to break into all those rooms and commit those acts before even going after their target on the 3rd floor? The upstairs bedrooms had a window and a balcony. The perp had a way to exit the house no matter where he started. I'm not sure why X&E were killed except IMO, one of them woke up and there was a confrontation likely after K&M had been killed.

For all we really know, it could have gone like this. Killer wants to kill K (OR M) and get out. No intention to kill anyone else. Finds the 2 together on 3rd floor where he was positive he would find just one in the bed. Confused, he doesn't immediately know who is who, but has to act. Kills one, then realizes he made a mistake and takes it out "brutally" on the other who may have awoken. Downstairs trying to exit, has confrontation with E, who had heard something. So he had to kill E/X too. So he leaves having killed 4 people when his intention was one. That would be the simplest thing. I think another poster also suggested confusion with the sleeping arrangement on the 3rd floor.

When Chris Watts killed his wife and kids, he told the detectives he was so angry that he could have killed anyone he came across.

i haven't looked at that 3rd floor balcony, would the murderer have made any big snow tracks jumping out?

 

[TKG]

I watched Brian Entin arrive in Moscow where his first order of business was to attempt to confirm facts about the investigation beginning with the County Prosecutor. Next, it was the Univ Dean of Students and the PIO for the Moscow PD. And now his focus has turned towards supporting the families and giving them a platform. He's committed to this case and says he's not leaving Moscow anytime soon.

Brian did an after-program Q & A on Twitter tonight where he answered that Kaylee's wounds were being compared to only Maddie's wounds.

Also confirmed that the family does NOT believe Kaylee had a stalker.

(I previously used the word drama queen, and Brian used the word nervous Nellie to describe Kaylee per her mom's description of her daughter's behavior when constantly describing her surroundings).

IMO, the above is what makes Brian so good at his job, and why both the victims and the public trust and embrace him.

Brian Entin Twitter @BrianEntin

I couldn't agree more. He is disciplined, respectful, factual and not a sensationalist. Thank you @brianEntin. I stumbled on his reporting with GP/BL and have followed since. Thank you for giving him accolades, so well deserved.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

What if the target was the University? Seriously, think how much this has and will affect the university.

And if the target is the UI, the question would be who would target the UI, what group has a history of targeting the UI, and that would have to include the group that cannot be named, it seems to me.

 

[layer]

Excellent point.
RR-KG
Jeep- EC
small White- XK
any ideas on the last two? What did MM drive?

I think it's been said that MM had the car with the AZ plates, and one of the 2 survivors was supposed to have a car.