ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[drmrgrl]

What I heard the father say is that: one of the two third floor victims was the target because the "manner of death" does not match.

View attachment 385005

Fox News Video

Should the reporters have asked for clarification on that point? Did the father mean cause of death is different, since we know both were homicide?

Manner of Death: five manners of death: natural, accident, suicide, homicide, and undetermined

Cause of Death: specific injury or disease that leads to death

Link

He would not know for certain that K or M was targeted because he would not have E And X wounds to compare to. Just because X and M have differing stab wounds, you couldnt possibly delineate who of the four was targeted, without comparison to all four bodies….unless some told him that, but who would tell him that? SG can only attest to Xs and possibly Ms wound pattern. There is something hinky with these interviews. It’s almost as if they are being staged to disseminate false info. IMO

 

[drmrgrl]

Do we know if Maddie and Kaylee shared same bed prior to falling asleep or did killer killing one prompt the other 3rd floor girl to enter the room of first target on 3rd floor? I think 3rd floor killings happened prior to X & E because X & E had defensive wounds which I would think may have cause physical injury to killer, making it less likely for killer to go upstairs to 3rd floor if hurt IMO

No one prompted anybody. Coroner said the roommates were likely sleeping when killed.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

You're more confident than me. I'm starting to think they have 0 idea. It does seem like the FBI has taken over the case though. Wonder if that means someone came from over state lines to do it. Or if it's just too complex for Moscow PD

Or… sometimes when you hear hoof beats, it is a zebra rather than a horse, and maybe the was recognized early? JMHO

 

[avalonisland]

He would not know for certain that K or M was targeted because he would not have E And X wounds to compare to. Just because X and M have differing stab wounds, you couldnt possibly delineate who of the four was targeted, without comparison to all four bodies….unless some told him that, but who would tell him that? SG can only attest to Xs and possibly Ms wound pattern. There is something hinay with these interviews. It’s almost as if they are being staged to disseminate false info. IMO

I wonder if one of 2 3rd floor victims had force blunt injury or strangulation along with stabbings? Like a killer would not really IMO be able to do exact stab wounds on each victim, so SG comments of diffences in killing without elaboration is interesting to me. I really hope LE is able to make arrest soon. What these victim parents are going thru is so sad

 

[sifty]

On the other hand, if the perp finds two sleeping girls, with the first it will be easy to stab wherever you want - if the second girl wakes, it's going to be harder to hit that perfect mark.

I feel like you may be right that they were together. Gruesome logistics aside that we won't know until atopsy. She was visiting her closest family outside of the nuclear one. They'd be enjoying all of it until yknow all the stabbing.

 

[slanda]

I live in Moscow. It really is a ghost town. It feels to me like everyone is on edge. Main Street always looks like a Christmas postcard. This year there’s no joy, no holiday spirit, while walking down the street. Am I afraid? Yes, I am. We have added security measures at home, which helps a little. My husband works and I am often home alone. And I worry. I am praying this killer is found. Soon.

I’m so sorry Sending you and your family lots of love and peace during this very difficult time <3

 

[monkey222]

IMO
The different means of attack could be because one girl was attacked in her sleep and the other woke up and defended herself thus distracting the killer from inflicting more stab wounds, but it could mean one was targeted too.

My initial take on the different means of attack was that perhaps there could be an additional mode of attack on one of the victims such as bruising, choking, although all were stabbed.

 

[avalonisland]

No one promoted anybody. Coroner said the roommates were likely sleeping when killed.

If two people sleepng when killed via stabbings, how would there be such a difference of death points? The bed was probably not much bigger than maybe queen size so the stabbing of one would cause some sort of awakeness by the other or something like movement off bed. Maddie's room had white curtins to block out light, so most likely room dark 3AM to 4AM. The Coroner seemed to be in shock by what she saw which may have clouded her being to be professional with what she observed as Coroner. She seemed to back peddle some statements. Would be interesting to me to hear from ME or at least read autopsy report (even redacted version).

 

[WildWest]

Whoever did this was:
*Proficient with a knife
* Bold enough to kill 4 people
*Stealthy
*COLD BLOODED KILLER
* Not likely someone who had issues with victims ...they had their OWN AGENDA
* Not the first time at this nor the last
MOO

Interesting, I interpreted X's Dad saying "bruised and torn" as the killer was NOT proficient with the knife and some stab penetrations were pulled back from the top of the knife blade/non-blade side of the knife. Imo.

 

[drmrgrl]

Injuries could have been more brutal because she fought back or because she appeared to not be dead.

Yes, but how would BE know this?

 

[avalonisland]

I live in Moscow. It really is a ghost town. It feels to me like everyone is on edge. Main Street always looks like a Christmas postcard. This year there’s no joy, no holiday spirit, while walking down the street. Am I afraid? Yes, I am. We have added security measures at home, which helps a little. My husband works and I am often home alone. And I worry. I am praying this killer is found. Soon.

So sorry what you and you community is going through. I hope you can at least Christmas decorate inside your home. One psycho killer has caused Moscow to be a ghost town and cause fear in your community. Hopefully, LE makes arrest soon. I am confident in FBI to profile right person and locate this killer so your town can be safe again.

 

[CeeMDubs]

And commit four bloody, very bloody murders and leave no trail? how? curious.

Sheer luck and targeting people who were sleepy/inebriated. Maybe the back door was left unlocked. Entered the house; everyone was in their respective rooms. Went directly upstairs, found the 3rd floor residents asleep with door(s) open/ajar. Killed one, then the other in quick, impulsive succession. Went downstairs, high on adrenaline, and encountered Ethan. Inflicted a lethal blow before Ethan could truly process what was happening. Heard Xana or knew Xana was in the bedroom-quickly ran to her with brandished knife, surprising her, and repeated the process. It could have all happened very quickly. Ran out the back slider and left the crime scene to be found many hours later.

If he was experienced with knives, and the crime was impulsive, he may not have spent much time with each victim. A quick succession of frenzied attacks on victims in varying degrees of consciousness and he was gone. A fast and frenzied killing could also result in a very bloody scene left for investigators. The bedding would have absorbed most of the blood, or would at least explain the lack of blood on the killers shoes.

Perhaps it was more calculated, but it’s hard to say without the details. I hate to give him too much credit when his victims were in a vulnerable position and not given a fair chance to defend themselves.

Adrenaline is a powerful drug. I used to take martial arts classes and the most dangerous sparring partners were always the inexperienced ones (white belts.) They were referred to as Great White Sharks and that was when I most feared being hurt as a black belt-fighting some of the nervous, adrenaline-fueled newbies.

 

[squareandrabbet]

View attachment 385083

Not sure if there is a date or time. From what I understand there is a JitB close to WSU that delivers (I assume via DoorDash or similar) to UofI. Some claim that tag indicates it was delivered, but not sure if that would also be used if ordered online and picked up in person.

Was Xana a regular there, I wonder? Known to the help?

Or was she in the habit of spelling her name aloud, "just in case"?

Does anyone call a delivery restaurant anymore, or do they all order online? I probably wouldn't guess the correct spelling of her name right off. Left to my own devices I'd opt for a Z.

 

[Curiosa20]

There has been considerable banter related to the families accessibility rights to the Autopsy Report and Post Mortem findings.
I can’t see anything in the policies of the Medical Examiner of Spokane County that would impede their access to the findings or even meeting with the ME to discuss said findings.
Am I missing something?
Also Latah County does not have an established agreement for the Spokane County Medical Examiner’s office to perform autopsies, according to the map provided on the site.
Where are they typically performed?

https://www.spokanecounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/1435/Confidentiality-PDF

 

[MsBetsy]

My thinking now is dominated by the concept of danger so like everyone else I am jumping to conclusions. But until LE makes more of their findings public we can only make arbitrary inferences about what really happened. Inferences now about the case are not necessarily incorrect, but they are based on internal cognitive processes rather than actual information. LE will disprove or confirm the hypothesis people are throwing out there about this case once they gather all the information.

Yes, LE has said from the beginning that in order to protect the integrity of the investigation they won't be sharing many details with the public.

I don't understand why the media keeps pressing the families for details about the investigation. They've interviewed experts that have explained why it's so important to keep information close to the vest so why would they even mention anything about the autopsy reports before they've been released?

According to the coroner the victims were stabbed multiple times in the chest and upper body. Some had defensive wounds.

Police still have found no evidence of a stalker and we don't know if one person was targeted or if everyone in the house was targeted.

If they all had multiple stab wounds, then there was intent to kill them all.

The killer could have started with what he thought was the biggest threat on the second floor, and then moved on to the third floor where the roommates on the first floor were least likely to hear anything.

Then he could have slipped out the way he came, through the sliding glass door that police found open when they arrived. Imo

 

[avalonisland]

Whoever did this was:
*Proficient with a knife
* Bold enough to kill 4 people
*Stealthy
*COLD BLOODED KILLER
* Not likely someone who had issues with victims ...they had their OWN AGENDA
* Not the first time at this nor the last
MOO

IMO whoever did this left town immediately to try and heal the wounds caused by victims fighting back. Perhaps the killer is out of Moscow town and his/her family has no clue....like they think he/she is in classes on campus. I hope LE reaches out to every empty seat student who has chosen remote to find out why and to observe their hands, face, arms for knife attack body injuries

 

[Seattle1]

What we know is that initial reports are that the victims "bled out". Weeks later, we heard from Kaylee's father that one victim died from a different cause of death. All four victims' manner of death is homicide.

Kaylee's father has said that the third floor victims died in different ways from each other. That would mean that one victim did not bleed out.

The only way that Kaylee's father would know that one victim suffered additional wounds is if he was being notified about his own daughter. He would not receive that information about someone else's daughter. Privacy.

To be clear, following the autopsy of all four victims by a contracted Medical Examiner in Spokane, WA, the County Corner in Moscow released a statement that the Cause of Death for each was Homicide, and the Manner of Death was stabbing.

The father of Kaylee has no knowledge of the other victims and can only compare Kaylee's stabbing wounds to Maddie's stabbing wounds. This was confirmed today by Brian Entin: Steve Gonsalves stated Kayley's wounds were worse than Maddie's wounds. Dad is not a medical professional and may not always use the correct words to communicate his thoughts.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24842/11-17-2022-Latah-Coroner-Press-Release

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599606229604921345

 

[MsBetsy]

I watched and came away with the understanding that SG thinks that LE just threw out “targeted” to ease the townspeople’s fears and that K was not targeted

I would think people in the community would be even more fearful if they knew all the victims were targeted, or if just the women were targeted, as opposed to just one person.

 

[Sjöberg]

The coroner has said the victims were likely sleeping when they were murdered. Is there reason this shouldn’t be believed? There are so many theories that have E confronting the killer; How can he do that when he is likely sleeping - or did I miss an update?

MOO

Honestly, I think the reason is good ol' sexist stereotyping. I think it is a good example that we really have to be aware of our own cognitive biases! I think that is essential for both sleuthing true crime and conducting any research, scientific or applied.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Oh yes. After reading here and on other online forums, I think the time is ripe for such lawsuits in Idaho.

If the parents want help in constructing that lawsuit, I have some bullet points. One could claim that the university failed to adequately warn students about the dangers of assault in any college town. How far a uni wants to go with this campaign is up to them, but the fact that the university is now urging buddy system or whatever could be construed as information that should have been given before the crime, to ever student and repeated often.

Discussions about door locks, in-house cameras, security systems should have been routine and all of those things recommended, etc.

That lawsuit would get some traction, don't know how it would turn out. And you're right, even if UofI is like the 10th named defendant in the case, they're still be in the case.

I worked with a family on the East Coast (who was thinking of suing the National Park Service) to get a different kind of outcome (they didn't really want to sue, but their son had died due to lack of water, etc, etc). I pointed out to them that the park service did NOT at that time have consistent signage on all relevant trails about availability of water OR how much to take. So, the family did not sue, but the lawyers worked out an agreement that the park would have signage. Snd since then, the sign boards are a bit more numerous, the signs themselves are in larger print - it used to be really small print, and there's a picture of how many liter bottles recommended for a day trip on that particular trail.

The family felt much better with this outcome, they didn't want money, they thought their son would like this outcome. They also realized that he had overestimated his knowledge about the Canyon to some extent, so they were reasonable, amazing people.

And the UI took admirable steps after UI student Katy Benoit was murdered off campus by a professor.

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