ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[PolarButterflie]

Lol because our Canadian police officers actually pretty good am I allowed to say that on here

Sorry I thought we already E was found outside of bedroom

I have not seen any official confirmation that anyone was found outside a bedroom. We know from formal LE releases that all were likely asleep when the attacks began (I took this to mean that each individual either died asleep or woke up while being attacked). We also know that some were found in their beds.

We do not know who or how many were found not in bed. It could have been any of the four. We also do not now if not in bed meant still in the bedroom or somewhere else. Based on the initial statement that all were found in thier beds which was walked back later, I believe they were all found either in or close to the bed they had been sleeping in.

 

[SuziQ]

Understood. In the case of my friend, they did because also in our case the autopsy didn't give the exact way she was asphyxiated, so no clues that only the killer would know there. That information (asphyxiation by *whatever*) we did not get until the killer was identified. Autopsy just listed cause of death as asphyxiation.

My point was that there could be other ways to get accurate and valid information that is not an LE release.

I think you are thinking of the death certificate? Death certificates are not held back because they are legally needed to settle the victims estate. The autopsy would have been greatly detailed and a dozen pages at least. Imo.

 

[gliving]

I interpreted K’s Dad’s comment the same way you did. However, others have interpreted it as the killer didn’t have to go upstairs, if X or E were the targets, but he still did go upstairs. Meaning K or M were the actual targets, else he would have killed X or E, then just left.

What if the killer didn't have a target, but simply a desire to kill.

And four murders sated that desire -- for whatever reason -- which we will never comprehend.

 

[SuziQ]

The 911 call. Why do you think it hasn’t been released yet?
-The name/names of caller would be revealed?
-There’s information pertinent to the investigation on it?
- Caller is naming a potential suspect or suspects?
- It is so scary they do not want to alarm the public?
I know LE is under no obligation to release the call, however as others have said generally the 911 call is released early in an investigation.

All of the above. Imo.

 

[docfishbone28]

I think both girls being in the same room is significant. I think the phone calls are significant, had this ever occurred before. Maybe they heard something before they went sleep and called or maybe the were calling because the were hearing noises downstairs at the time. Did they actually sleep together. Did K hear M being assaulted and go into her room and try to fight off the sus and eventually recieve the same fate but much more severe because she fought back. Did this wake up ethan and they did in fact meet on the killers way out. And the killer yeilding a knife force E back into the room and kill him there waking up X allowing her to fight back. Maybe killer had a gun also. Maybe they were forced to lay in bed. Was the killer already there waiting for E and X to return, 10 minutes later K and M return, making repeated phone calls to her ex bf. Maybe they tried to check on E and X and couldnt get a response and therefore called the ex bf. Killer thinks coast is clear and tries to leave, girls are alerted, coralled by killer into same room and so on

 

[sumzero]

No, the families of E and X could not make the same argument. SG's argument was that X and E were on the same floor as the exit and entry point. If the perp targeted them, he would have left immediately after killing them because his job was done. If K or M was the target, the perp would have had to walk by the room where E and X were. That would have left the perp susceptible to being stopped/seen/confronted/etc. on his way up or out. SG's point was that the only reason for the perp to go upstairs was to kill the target, one or both of the girls.

Should we assume the killer worried about walking past a second-floor room with a sleeping couple? His actions seem pretty bold and brazen, so ...? Then again, we don't know for sure where he entered, which floor he began his killings on, or even whether he planned to kill the two survivors (but was prevented from doing so, for whatever reason). Without knowing more, it's probably wise not to make too many assumptions.

 

[DizzyB]

Decent Banfield tonight. Next guest was asked about 113 pieces of evidence. I agree with her, sounds like a low number considering 4 victims, 2 bedrooms, a 3 story house, entry point, exit point, outside, vehicles. The guest felt that it was problematic that the cars were towed to an outdoor lot, unprotected from the elements, unless the cars have been processed and are about to be released to family members. On to Murphy after the break.

 

[EmmieA]

Lol because our Canadian police officers actually pretty good am I allowed to say that on here

Sorry I thought we already E was found outside of bedroom

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but AFAIK LE hasn’t confirmed where E was found; I think the only location information we have is from the coroner who said that some of the victims were found in their beds.

MOO

 

[Zella]

The 911 call. Why do you think it hasn’t been released yet?
-The name/names of caller would be revealed?
-There’s information pertinent to the investigation on it?
- Caller is naming a potential suspect or suspects?
- It is so scary they do not want to alarm the public?
I know LE is under no obligation to release the call, however as others have said generally the 911 call is released early in an investigation.

I think it's a combination of wanting to protect any details revealed during the course of the call and also wanting to respect the privacy of the surviving roommates and victims.

I know Joaquin Phoenix has talked about how traumatized he was every time the news played his 911 call for his brother River, and I don't think that's an unusual sentiment for someone in that situation. It would also likely be quite traumatizing for the families of the victims and to what real end would it serve?

It seems to me that 911 calls are released less frequently than they were in the past--that's just my sense of it, but I could be wrong--precisely because people are really rethinking what purpose it serves for the general public to hear someone possibly screaming or crying during a really horrible moment in their life and potentially reciting gory details about another person. MOO

 

[The Observer]

It's strange that they scheduled a formal during a home football game.

Ethan, Xana and the roommates posed for the pre-game pic. I just assumed Ethan attended the FB game.

Nov 12 (Sat) 4 p.m.Stadium: Kibbie Dome Location: Moscow, Idaho Attendance: 7681 Duration: 03:09
Big Sky
vs
UC Davis
Hero's Weekend/Senior Day
Moscow, Idaho Kibbie-ASUI Activity Center
Radio: Idaho Vandal Radio Network
L, 26-44

• Box Score
• Recap

Hide/Show Additional Information For UC Davis - November 12, 2022

BBM. It wasn't a formal type formal. It was a dance held by one single sorority. It wasn't a university wide event.

 

[uburoi1]

- Caller is naming a potential suspect or suspects?

snip

...in an "in so many words" kind of way, perhaps.

 

[DizzyB]

I think both girls being in the same room is significant. I think the phone calls are significant, had this ever occurred before. Maybe they heard something before they went sleep and called or maybe the were calling because the were hearing noises downstairs at the time. Did they actually sleep together. Did K hear M being assaulted and go into her room and try to fight off the sus and eventually recieve the same fate but much more severe because she fought back. Did this wake up ethan and they did in fact meet on the killers way out. And the killer yeilding a knife force E back into the room and kill him there waking up X allowing her to fight back. Maybe killer had a gun also. Maybe they were forced to lay in bed. Was the killer already there waiting for E and X to return, 10 minutes later K and M return, making repeated phone calls to her ex bf. Maybe they tried to check on E and X and couldnt get a response and therefore called the ex bf. Killer thinks coast is clear and tries to leave, girls are alerted, coralled by killer into same room and so on

M’s boyfriend said she was the first person he would speak to in the morning, and the last person at night. Did he try to reach her? When did they last speak?

 

[Zella]

I think the phone calls are significant, had this ever occurred before.

K's family has stated quite directly that this was not unusual for her to call or text incessantly until someone answered her, even in the wee hours of the morning, to ask them mundane questions like what she should eat. I think with that as a baseline for her, it's quite probable the calls were not because she was scared or upset. MOO

 

[Curiosa20]

Brief but too much to cut and paste-
Read the text OF NOTE regarding role and responsibilities Spokane County ME

Medical Examiner | Spokane County, WA

The Medical Examiner is dedicated to excellence in public service by providing professional, scientific, and compassionate forensic death investigation services.

www.spokanecounty.org

Then- No legalize here- very clear explanations of access to Autopsies, Death Certificates and Post Mortem information, Mortuary role and more.
Check Autopsies and Confidentiality. It’s not difficult reading.

Medical Examiner Policies of Interest to the General Public | Spokane County, WA

View Medical Examiner policies that are of interest to the general public.

www.spokanecounty.org

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

May believe one of the callers is a suspect

Not according to MPD:
King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

It’s a great resource - you might find it helpful to bookmark. The link is also provided on the first page of the more recent threads

 

[SuziQ]

Excuse me. What are you basing that declaration on?
LE is not responsible for authorizing the release of Autopsy or Post Mortem reports to family members and limited others, at least in Washington where the exams were conducted. LE may and does have the right to not divulge how they are using that information in the investigation but that’s an entirely different issue.
I posted the link to Policies and Procedures from the Spokane County ME’s office last night.
I’ll bring it back over.

You don't think the ME or a judge would hold that info for investigative purposes? Im basing my opinion on personal experience and about 50 years of crime sleuthing. It took me 2 years to get access to my husband's autopsy. And an ex BF that was murdered was never released to his parents for at least five years that they tried to get it. Imo.

 

[wary]

Bringing this forward from thread 3, posted by Oddmomout who is a Verified Forensic Genetic Genealogist

It’s really difficult for me to believe that the rules for Forensic Genetic Genealogy are the same in all states. Are they? Did this discussion specifically refer to the state of Idaho?

MOO

 

[docfishbone28]

K's family has stated quite directly that this was not unusual for her to call or text incessantly until someone answered her, even in the wee hours of the morning, to ask them mundane questions like what she should eat. I think with that as a baseline for her, it's quite probably the calls were not because she was scared or upse

My

K's family has stated quite directly that this was not unusual for her to call or text incessantly until someone answered her, even in the wee hours of the morning, to ask them mundane questions like what she should eat. I think with that as a baseline for her, it's quite probable the calls were not because she was scared or upset. MOO

My understanding is that 6 calls where made from K's phone and 3 from M's phone. Seems pretty urgent

 

[everybodhi]

Snipped>
EARONS/Golden State Killer had his DNA found on his car door handle while he went to visit Hobby Lobby. It was not the trash method.

And while you can't force a DNA swab, I can tell you from experience that people who refuse to help in a murder investigation by not giving a swab (party house visitors for example) are exactly the ones who fall under more LE scrutiny for obvious reasons. And then, LE tries to find other ways of getting samples. Trash is indeed a common one. Plastic utensils from take-out, in the trash - those are bomb in an investigation where someone refuses to give the swab.

Because most people want to help catch a killer and therefore give the swab. I would assume there's quite a bit of stranger DNA in the house and it has to be sorted - party goers may be called on to help.OTOH, they have may have a good profile from other means (killer cut himself; victim got a bit of skin under fingernails; swabs for saliva/spittle on victim's bodies/face; killer left behind an object, etc.)

Both are true

DNA from tissue taken out of alleged Golden State Killer's trash led to arrest, warrant shows

“According to the warrant, the initial DNA collected to connect DeAngelo to the murders of Lyman and Charlene Smith in March 1980 was taken off his driver’s side car door handle when he was parked in Hobby Lobby parking lot in Roseville, California, in April 2018. Authorities surveilled DeAngelo driving this vehicle.”

“Additional DNA samples were then taken from DeAngelo’s trash can outside his residence in Citrus Heights on April 23. A piece of tissue was the conclusive DNA factor needed to link him to the these crimes, the warrant shows.”

 

[drmrgrl]

That statement doesn’t mean that the two males weren’t involved, it only states that there is no evidence-BIG DIFFERENCE. With that in mind,were the police called/notified during the initial incident? If LE was notified and this was seen as a false accusation- that may bring about some anger among the males. Unfortunately, when women assert themselves or stand their ground, they are seen as “*advertiser censored*” by males who don’t respect women in the first place. I just think that this encounter may have been “the anomalous event” that set things in motion. IMO, Let’s say one of these guys told another male friend who doesn’t particularly like women and HE spent time around Moscow trying to locate her unbeknownst to others and he took it upon himself to “teach her a lesson”.