ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[whirrledpeas]

Well let’s see if my thought makes any sense before you dig deeper lol…
I’m thinking if it was a formal it would’ve been in the evening? (But maybe not?) Because if E took his sister, that could mean that E and X were separated for a chunk of time Sat evening - could they have been separated during some part of that 9pm-1:45am portion that LE is interested in?

MOO

Very plausible.

 

[Sjöberg]

Since there were numerous speakers on the 911 call per LE, it is not necessarily one of the victims that was “unconscious.”

No, MPD has constantly stated in all of the recent updates that "On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up."

Just asking… would a guy take his sister if he is in a relationship?

MOO: This thread really keeps at the sexist biases. The guy did not take his sister to the dance, the sister invited her brother to the dance. The reason was, that his sister belonged to Kappa Alpha Theta, that was hosting the event. Neither E nor his gf X belonged to Kappa Alpha Theta. The triplet sister took his triplet brother E along as her +1 for the event, while the third triplet brother was the date of her roommate (unsure if those two were dating/friends/never met before)

His sister belonged to Kappa Alpha Theta, and Xana belonged to Pi Beta Phi. If his sister doesn't have anyone to take her to her own sorority's event, it would make a lot of sense for him to accompany her.

 

[whirrledpeas]

Just asking… would a guy take his sister if he is in a relationship?

It was the sister’s dance to take someone to, not his.

 

[10ofRods]

True about the lack of data on the timeline for EZ but LE probably is not willing to disclose anything about it. The killer knows the time, I betcha.


Yes, there are incredible photos of a gorgeous young lady posted online but that is her business. Do we critique the Kardashians, Spears, Swift etal for showing their great bods? Bathing suit model Cheryl Tiegs is lovely as ever but we don't shame her for it.

Kaylee having social media accounts at age 14yo is not what killed her. She's dead bc a mad dog killer stabbed and slashed this young lady until she bled out like hunters do to deer that they enthusiastically prey in the woods. That's what happened to her, her best friend forever, and the other two friends who were in the house that awful night.

Perhaps there's an important reason why we saw footage of investigators revisit the house at night most recently. There was at least 2 of them carrying sealed brown bags of evidence. They knew what to go in and get. They're been receiving test results. This is why the FBI is great to have on tough cases.

How long does it take for the FBI to get DNA results?​

Instead of days or weeks, new devices can provide DNA profiles in less than two hours. They don't require special equipment or laboratories and can analyze samples from almost any body fluid containing DNA.
The FBI's Laboratory Division uses several different methods to determine an individual's genetic profile.
How long does a DNA test take the police?

But, they need a sample.

And a way of sorting out samples when there are multiple stranger DNA findings in one place. Obviously, the residents and E are accounted for.

But if people came in and out regularly, not wearing gloves or masks, there's a lot of DNA to sort through - and incomplete profiles are very common. Getting the ATCG sequences is faster than ever, but the killer had to leave something behind to even get a sample. One lone hair with follicle would work - but I bet there are other hairs in that house, not attributable to the residents. It will take time to map, chart and work through DNA samples from various parts of the house, some of them incomplete.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I think the most likely explanation about E&Ks whereabouts is that they, knowing the had an empty house, went to it after hanging out at the sigma chi party so they could be alone for a little bit.

X’s father said he last heard from her around midnight and that she was at home. Which would totally track with my opinion above.

I think the bigger question would be (if the above os accurate) - where did they go when they left the house the second time, when did they leave (would have been after midnight), and why? Maybe it’s as simple as they were done with their alone time and wanted to go hang with friends again.

LE is convinced they returned to the house at 1:45 ish. They do not say they returned home, then left, then returned home again. IF X and E were home at midnight (which they might or might not have been), is it possible that the 1:45 time comes from a phone ping? And that a phone had gone dead and was being charged and was just turned on at that time? I've done that, had my phone go dead, plug it into a charger and not turn it on again until I needed it or it was charged.

That does not explain the other person's phone. Of course, we don't know if the both had a phone. Or one lost their phone and the killer was the one who came to the house at 1:45 with one of their phones. Or any other crazy out there possibility.

I suppose what I'm trying to put together is that LE has some reason they believe X and E returned around 1:45 am. There is no reference to home and out and home and out. Either they were not home watching a movie when X's father called (watching a movie elsewhere, perhaps), or there is something missing in the timeline that either LE doesn't have, or doesn't want to divulge.

 

[DizzyB]

E got to Sigma Chi around 8pm with Xana. Allegedly only stayed an hour (hence the 9pm timeframe). According to Xana's father she was 'watching a movie with her boyfriend' when he spoke to her aound midnight.

Please correct me if I’m mistaken-E went to his sister’s formal AND got to Sigma Chi at 8 pm? Did he stay for a minute at the frat house and then go to formal, then go to X’s, hang out, then leave there, and return near 1 am? This was all on that night?

I know that SG has said he has talked to those who have more experience and is seeing things being possibly mishandled— like the autos being left out in non controlled environment in broad daylight. If cleared, give the cats back but they said they kept them in case they needed them again— like maybe looking at the computers to find X & E whereabouts.

I know I have one of those insurance things in my car and the insurance tracks all trips and I’ve known people who had their stolen cars located with the app. Idk.. just an example.

I’m just saying that doctors, law enforcement, and many other things are not as great as where there is more experience. I would always go to the larger city doctor to perform a surgery because he has done 1000 of them and our doctor here has done 10. Same principal. Just some food for thought.

Back to E&X-if they truly aren’t sure of their movements that evening, wouldn’t the cars help on that? Through telematics of some sort, heck, might be food wrappers or notes inside, maybe they gave someone a ride? Or maybe LE truly knows the timing and exactly where they were all night, and need context from witnesses. Maybe we are back to early stuff where a disagreement was mentioned as a possibility.

 

[accordn2me]

They can't obtain DNA without probable cause and perhaps even a warrant, both of which are pretty high bars.

It really isn't a right to privacy as much as it is a 5th Amendment right, which is fundamental. A successful PR campaign by authorities (and media) over the last 50 years that it somehow implies guilt doesn't negate that absolute right. Anyone, innocent or not, shouldn't talk to police without an attorney present, and they certainly shouldn't be volunteering personal identifiers for a stored, collective law enforcement database.

The whole "if you had nothing to hide, you would do it" mantra is absurd.

My opinion.

I’m not sure but I believe your right to not submit to a DNA test is the right to be free from unreasonable search & seizure. Like when you get stopped for speeding, you do not have to consent to a search of your car, or your backpack.

 

[layer]

But, they need a sample.

And a way of sorting out samples when there are multiple stranger DNA findings in one place. Obviously, the residents and E are accounted for.

But if people came in and out regularly, not wearing gloves or masks, there's a lot of DNA to sort through - and incomplete profiles are very common. Getting the ATCG sequences is faster than ever, but the killer had to leave something behind to even get a sample. One lone hair with follicle would work - but I bet there are other hairs in that house, not attributable to the residents. It will take time to map, chart and work through DNA samples from various parts of the house, some of them incomplete.

Would you know if Idaho is a familial DNA state, should it eventually come to that? I know some aren't.

 

[gcplayer19]

LE is convinced they returned to the house at 1:45 ish. They do not say they returned home, then left, then returned home again. IF X and E were home at midnight (which they might or might not have been), is it possible that the 1:45 time comes from a phone ping? And that a phone had gone dead and was being charged and was just turned on at that time? I've done that, had my phone go dead, plug it into a charger and not turn it on again until I needed it or it was charged.

That does not explain the other person's phone. Of course, we don't know if the both had a phone. Or one lost their phone and the killer was the one who came to the house at 1:45 with one of their phones. Or any other crazy out there possibility.

I suppose what I'm trying to put together is that LE has some reason they believe X and E returned around 1:45 am. There is no reference to home and out and home and out. Either they were not home watching a movie when X's father called (watching a movie elsewhere, perhaps), or there is something missing in the timeline that either LE doesn't have, or doesn't want to divulge.

Let’s go back to the very basic reason people get stabbed in so much rage … they know their killer

 

[Zella]

MOO: This thread really keeps at the sexist biases.

IMO a lot of things in this case that are perfectly normal are being treated as suspicious in a way that I find quite odd. College students sleeping until noon, people ignoring text messages in the middle of the night, people being tagged in photos, and people not tidying up before going to bed after a night of partying are about the most normal things I can think of but have all been singled out as extremely suspicious in discussions of this case.

 

[slanda]

I’m not sure I would reach the conclusion this guy has reached, but I do agree K’s father has released details that are unsubstantiated.

- K and M were found in the same bed
- K was more brutally attacked than M
- perp entered by sliding door or window on 2nd floor

Where did he get these details?
None of these pieces of information are on the Moscow PD Update.
We don’t even know if they are true.

If he thinks by releasing info to the public it is going to make LE trust him with more info, he is wrong. It would seem to me a Gag Order is warranted.

JMO

There is no jurisdiction of a current court to issue that gag order. Maybe LE could threaten him with an Obstruction of Justice charge but I don’t think that would do any good. They, however bothersome SG might be to them, have to come up with some way to pacify him and make him trust them. Someone has to be smart enough to figure that out.

He has a right to speak. The exFBI agent IMO really did everyone a disservice with this insane interview.

Of course the investigators are going to give families information they withhold from the public. Just because the information isn’t in a press release doesn’t mean SG killed the kids, as was alluded to by this person.

I noticed in his language, he dehumanized him too by calling him “that guy” and not naming him.

Maybe LE is upset with Kaylee’s dad, and maybe they have lots of reasons to be, but this man cannot possibly think his interview tonight was going to help anyone or anything. And I think that’s a shame. People should be trying to help, not accuse a father of his daughters murder, for what I think are ratings and fame and a platform.

I think that man is disgusting.

 

[TKG]

Yes. E's mother confirmed it in her interview. She also stated the photos from that night are on his phone that LE have.

I understood that it was a dance at the sorority and SHE asked E to come as her "date". They were all close and E's brother accompanied their sister's roommate. Nothing odd about this at all, actually it's quite nice.

 

[AngTxGal]

True about the lack of data on the timeline for EZ but LE probably is not willing to disclose anything about it. The killer knows the time, I betcha.


<modsnip>

Perhaps there's an important reason why we saw footage of investigators revisit the house at night most recently. There was at least 2 of them carrying sealed brown bags of evidence. They knew what to go in and get. They're been receiving test results. This is why the FBI is great to have on tough cases.

How long does it take for the FBI to get DNA results?​

Instead of days or weeks, new devices can provide DNA profiles in less than two hours. They don't require special equipment or laboratories and can analyze samples from almost any body fluid containing DNA.
The FBI's Laboratory Division uses several different methods to determine an individual's genetic profile.
How long does a DNA test take the police?

Just an FYI, hunters do not stab deer in the heart and let them bleed to death.

I’ve heard of new a new system called ANDE that is a rapid DNA profile kit that is mobile. It is special equipment for sure, is relatively new. I’m not sure how available It is, but it does do a DNA profile within 2-6 hours.

JMO

ANDE - Rapid DNA Technology

Generate a Rapid DNA identification profile, anywhere, in less than 2 hours. FBI NDIS approved. Used around the world in public safety, investigations, disaster victim identification, sexual assault, booking, anti human trafficking, border control, counterterrorism, and environmental protection.

www.ande.com

 

[accordn2me]

E got to Sigma Chi around 8pm with Xana. Allegedly only stayed an hour (hence the 9pm timeframe). According to Xana's father she was 'watching a movie with her boyfriend' when he spoke to her aound midnight.

If only we knew where they watched that midnight movie.

 

[FruitTingles]

There is no jurisdiction of a current court to issue that gag order. Maybe LE could threaten him with an Obstruction of Justice charge but I don’t think that would do any good. They, however bothersome SG might be to them, have to come up with some way to pacify him and make him trust them. Someone has to be smart enough to figure that out.

He has a right to speak. The FBI agent IMO really did everyone a disservice with this insane interview.

Of course the investigators are going to give families information they withhold from the public. Just because the information isn’t in a press release doesn’t mean SG killed the kids, as was alluded to by this person.

I noticed in his language, he dehumanized him too by calling him “that guy” and not naming him.

Maybe LE is upset with Kaylee’s dad, and maybe they have lots of reasons to be, but this man cannot possibly think his interview tonight was going to help anyone or anything. And I think that’s a shame. People should be trying to help, not accuse a father of his daughters murder, for what I think are ratings and fame and a platform.

I think that man is disgusting.

BBM: Which man do you think is disgusting?

 

[sleepingmonkey]

IMO a lot of things in this case that are perfectly normal are being treated as suspicious in a way that I find quite odd. College students sleeping until noon, people ignoring text messages in the middle of the night, people being tagged in photos, and people not tidying up before going to bed after a night of partying are about the most normal things I can think of but have all been singled out as extremely suspicious in discussions of this case.

you missed the post about nothing good happens after 10 pm or after 3 drinks. If you have 3 drinks after 10 pm...who knows what will happen...probably implosions

 

[Ghostwheel]

About the locks. I don’t know why X’s father didn’t mention changing locks when he was originally interviewed. He DOES mention that the front door had a number lock - so if anything, I think he may have replaced/fixed that. But I do not put much credence into him actually replacing any lock, much less her lock, since he didn’t mention it, unless LE asked him not to.

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

Throwing this out there for consideration. Each time someone I have known and loved has died, whether by accident, murder or some other reason not expected, the world gets a little fuzzy for a few days, color fades. I don't think on all eight cylinders. Maybe a lopsided 3 cylinders. If X's father didn't mention the lock four days after his daughter died, I personally would give him a pass and not place any importance at all on mentioning or not mentioning it. JMO.

 

[everybodhi]

Only by judicial order or warrant, according to the ABA.

DNA Evidence

A new set of Criminal Justice Standards on DNA Evidence approved by the ABA House of Delegates in August 2006 appears along with commentary in a publication entitled: ABA Standards for Criminal Justice: DNA Evidence, 3d ed. © 2007 .

www.americanbar.org

LE can’t force someone to do a DNA swab but LE picks up DNA left in public places by suspects everyday without a warrant.
If you leave your straw or cup after your lunch or spit on the sidewalk, that’s fair game. Trash left out for collection in front of your house is also often used.
That’s where they got the first DNA from the Golden State Killer in order to arrest him, after they had found the familial DNA match. They arrested him on that trash can DNA matching to the crime scene DNA.

 

[Newb7961]

I understood that it was a dance at the sorority and SHE asked E to come as her "date". They were all close and E's brother accompanied their sister's roommate. Nothing odd about this at all, actually it's quite nice.

That’s the sweetest thing

 

[bbbd4u]

Forgive me if this has already been posted/discussed...
Has law enforcement ever stated if they are collecting data from cell tower dumps?