ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 22

[EmmieA]

I think the most likely explanation about E&Ks whereabouts is that they, knowing the had an empty house, went to it after hanging out at the sigma chi party so they could be alone for a little bit.

X’s father said he last heard from her around midnight and that she was at home. Which would totally track with my opinion above.

I think the bigger question would be (if the above os accurate) - where did they go when they left the house the second time, when did they leave (would have been after midnight), and why? Maybe it’s as simple as they were done with their alone time and wanted to go hang with friends again.

I wasn’t trying to explain E & X’s whereabouts that night - I was asking about the time of the formal E attended that day.

 

[TKG]

There is no jurisdiction of a current court to issue that gag order. Maybe LE could threaten him with an Obstruction of Justice charge but I don’t think that would do any good. They, however bothersome SG might be to them, have to come up with some way to pacify him and make him trust them. Someone has to be smart enough to figure that out.

He has a right to speak. The FBI agent IMO really did everyone a disservice with this insane interview.

Of course the investigators are going to give families information they withhold from the public. Just because the information isn’t in a press release doesn’t mean SG killed the kids, as was alluded to by this person.

I noticed in his language, he dehumanized him too by calling him “that guy” and not naming him.

Maybe LE is upset with Kaylee’s dad, and maybe they have lots of reasons to be, but this man cannot possibly think his interview tonight was going to help anyone or anything. And I think that’s a shame. People should be trying to help, not accuse a father of his daughters murder, for what I think are ratings and fame and a platform.

I think that man is disgusting.

So well written, I 100% agree with you!!

 

[Celt1997]

Forgive me if this has already been posted/discussed...
Has law enforcement ever stated if they are collecting data from cell tower dumps?

I don't believe they've explicitly stated they are, but given the modern era of investigation, I would say that would be a standard expectation.

 

[DeDee]

Bryan Kohberger flight lands in Moscow as police stop from August revealed - live

Update on Idaho college student murders

www.independent.co.uk

View attachment 385259View attachment 385260

One thing that doesn't quite add up, based on what the articles are saying (and if this has already been pointed our please remove my comment) is that the police are describing the crime scene as messy and "quite a bit of blood" yet when the surviving roommates called 911 they reported an unconscious person saying they "thought someone had passed out"

Oh, LE also stated that the 911 call was made with a roommate's phone but more than one person spoke to dispatch because the roommate may not have completely finished speaking to 911 dispatch as she was likely incapable of cohesive thoughts from being in shock and awe. Consequently, a passersby or a friendly neighbor likely finished summoning LE and ambulances by using her phone during the same 911 call.

Knowing this, who do you think was unconscious or "passed out"?

 

[lucidium]

IMO a lot of things in this case that are perfectly normal are being treated as suspicious in a way that I find quite odd. College students sleeping until noon, people ignoring text messages in the middle of the night, people being tagged in photos, and people not tidying up before going to bed after a night of partying are about the most normal things I can think of but have all been singled out as extremely suspicious in discussions of this case.

Agreed. I would also caution against overanalyzing the behavior and spoken words of extremely stressed and/or traumatized people during the investigation phase.

 

[AngTxGal]

There is no jurisdiction of a current court to issue that gag order. Maybe LE could threaten him with an Obstruction of Justice charge but I don’t think that would do any good. They, however bothersome SG might be to them, have to come up with some way to pacify him and make him trust them. Someone has to be smart enough to figure that out.

He has a right to speak. The FBI agent IMO really did everyone a disservice with this insane interview.

Of course the investigators are going to give families information they withhold from the public. Just because the information isn’t in a press release doesn’t mean SG killed the kids, as was alluded to by this person.

I noticed in his language, he dehumanized him too by calling him “that guy” and not naming him.

Maybe LE is upset with Kaylee’s dad, and maybe they have lots of reasons to be, but this man cannot possibly think his interview tonight was going to help anyone or anything. And I think that’s a shame. People should be trying to help, not accuse a father of his daughters murder, for what I think are ratings and fame and a platform.

I think that man is disgusting.

Agreed, this case seems to have brought every retired detective, cop and FBI agent out of the woodwork to chime in with their opinions. I’m not sure any of them are helping.
The variety of points of view would be almost comical if this wasn’t such a horrific case.

Why is SG the only parent to speak out like this and share information to the public?
What do the other parents think of him sharing details?
Do any of the families have an attorney? It seems an attorney would help.

The only multimurder case I can compare this to is Delphi, and the behavior of K’s family is so very different. LE did not do everything right in Delphi, but they did earn the trust of the families and community.

JMO

 

[Normamsmiley]

LE is convinced they returned to the house at 1:45 ish. They do not say they returned home, then left, then returned home again. IF X and E were home at midnight (which they might or might not have been), is it possible that the 1:45 time comes from a phone ping? And that a phone had gone dead and was being charged and was just turned on at that time? I've done that, had my phone go dead, plug it into a charger and not turn it on again until I needed it or it was charged.

That does not explain the other person's phone. Of course, we don't know if the both had a phone. Or one lost their phone and the killer was the one who came to the house at 1:45 with one of their phones. Or any other crazy out there possibility.

I suppose what I'm trying to put together is that LE has some reason they believe X and E returned around 1:45 am. There is no reference to home and out and home and out. Either they were not home watching a movie when X's father called (watching a movie elsewhere, perhaps), or there is something missing in the timeline that either LE doesn't have, or doesn't want to divulge.

Well, LE isn’t saying much at all. I’m not sure they would divulge that they came home and went back out even if that was confirmed.

I’m not sure how you can state that they were not home watching a movie when X’s father called. And I’m not totally sure where you are going with the phone pings.

I realize that a router can show who was using the Wi-Fi - but I’m not sure it shows the specific times very easily.

With that said - I would think a lot that’s missing from all 4 timelines can be found in sifting through digital footprints - whether from SM, streaming services, routers, google data, etc… but I’m sure that a lot of that takes time to get warrants and then data.

 

[10ofRods]

Would you know if Idaho is a familial DNA state, should it eventually come to that? I know some aren't.

I do not think they are - but there is no rule of law that would prohibit them from joining that group, AFAIK. It does take crime team training - and the FBI would likely have to help with forensics.

LE can’t force someone to do a DNA swab but LE picks up DNA left in public places by suspects everyday without a warrant.
If you leave your straw or cup after your lunch or spit on the sidewalk, that’s fair game. Trash left out for collection in front of your house is also often used.
That’s where they got the first DNA from the Golden State Killer in order to arrest him, after they had found the familial DNA match. They arrested him on that trash can DNA matching to the crime scene DNA.

EARONS/Golden State Killer had his DNA found on his car door handle while he went to visit Hobby Lobby. It was not the trash method.

And while you can't force a DNA swab, I can tell you from experience that people who refuse to help in a murder investigation by not giving a swab (party house visitors for example) are exactly the ones who fall under more LE scrutiny for obvious reasons. And then, LE tries to find other ways of getting samples. Trash is indeed a common one. Plastic utensils from take-out, in the trash - those are bomb in an investigation where someone refuses to give the swab.

Because most people want to help catch a killer and therefore give the swab. I would assume there's quite a bit of stranger DNA in the house and it has to be sorted - party goers may be called on to help.OTOH, they have may have a good profile from other means (killer cut himself; victim got a bit of skin under fingernails; swabs for saliva/spittle on victim's bodies/face; killer left behind an object, etc.)

 

[EmmieA]

E got to Sigma Chi around 8pm with Xana. Allegedly only stayed an hour (hence the 9pm timeframe). According to Xana's father she was 'watching a movie with her boyfriend' when he spoke to her aound midnight.

So E either took his sister to her dance before 8pm or after 9pm.

 

[AngTxGal]

IMO a lot of things in this case that are perfectly normal are being treated as suspicious in a way that I find quite odd. College students sleeping until noon, people ignoring text messages in the middle of the night, people being tagged in photos, and people not tidying up before going to bed after a night of partying are about the most normal things I can think of but have all been singled out as extremely suspicious in discussions of this case.

Not by me, the only thing I can guess is some people have forgotten what they were like when they were this age, and/or they don’t have kids In their teens and twenties.

JMO

 

[CLGM]

So, for folks familiar with how LE works, if they have a POI, are they surveilling that person? Probably a dumb question, I know… I guess the question I’m asking is how would they be watching them? Would the person know they were being watched? My only reference is TV shows or movies - I have no idea how it actually works.

 

[slanda]

Let’s go back to the very basic reason people get stabbed in so much rage … they know their killer

Not necessarily at all. Most do know their killers, but there are “true victim” crimes that happen all the time.

It may “look” like a rage killing because it’s bloody and with a knife— but even knife crimes can be sophisticated, and have a more calculated type of rage, if we were to use that term.

Crimes of Passion which are usually not premeditated, happen a lot with rage in the heat of the moment.

But not all knife crimes are not crimes of passion.

It depends on what you mean by rage? Just the act of being murdered would be considered a victim of someone’s rage, but, would we consider someone who was poisoned an act of rage if they were murdered? Probably not.

But the person slowly killing someone else with that poison could have been so filled with rage and delighted in the fact their victim was slowly fading away. The murderer had rage, but it didn’t really show up in the cause of death… We reserve rage for mass murders, Ax murders, stabbings, etc…

Obviously, Rolling, Bundy, The Night Stalker, BTK, etc… committed horribly violent murders arguably full of rage, but it wasn’t because the victim did anything to deserve it. They had no idea why they were being brutalized… but the killer knows and usually picks a victim (or a place that represents his anger/fixation, i.e. Roger Elliot) and uses the victims as stand ins for whatever it is they’re mad/fixated at/about.

 

[whirrledpeas]

So, for folks familiar with how LE works, if they have a POI, are they surveilling that person? Probably a dumb question, I know… I guess the question I’m asking is how would they be watching them? Would the person know they were being watched? My only reference is TV shows or movies - I have no idea how it actually works.

LE is well-trained in surveillance techniques. In my state, even private investigators have to take a 68-hour course and 30 hours of that is surveillance training.

If whoever is surveilling is good, no one would know.

MOO

 

[slanda]

BBM: Which man do you think is disgusting?

Jonathan Gilliam. The ex FBI agent who gave the interview. I just had to look up his name.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

The location and time of this incident makes it stand out to me.

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022
22-M09896 Alcohol Offense
Incident Address: TAYLOR AVE; Band Field
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 03:01
Cad Comments:
Officer requested a case. Report taken.

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

Under Rumor Control:
“

• There has been extensive media interest regarding an incident at Taylor Avenue and Band Field on November 13, 2022, at 3:01 a.m. This incident was an alcohol offense which was addressed by the on-scene officer. This call is not related to the murder investigations. For further details regarding this incident, a Moscow Police Department Public Records Request can be submitted referencing incident number 22-MO9896.”

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

 

[ae45678]

What if it's something to do with the new car? Or selling the old one? Mistaken identity or a bad deal there?

Or if moving, a craigslist ad - maybe someone went to the house to look at furniture, gets told dog is friendly, sees the layout

 

[layer]

So E either took his sister to her dance before 8pm or after 9pm.

The pictures of them all dressed up seemed to be daylight, so I assume it was before the frat party.

ETA: Disregard. The pictures I was (mis)remembering were not that day.

 

[nightowl2728]

So, for folks familiar with how LE works, if they have a POI, are they surveilling that person? Probably a dumb question, I know… I guess the question I’m asking is how would they be watching them? Would the person know they were being watched? My only reference is TV shows or movies - I have no idea how it actually works.

Not sure if this directly answers your question, but in the 2017 case of the murder of University of Illinois international student Yingying Zhang, the woman who was dating the suspected perp at the time got him to confess to her and she was wearing a bugged recording device (LE was working with her). So agreed with the people saying that LE could involve others' help around a suspected perp if needed. They clearly had a ton of evidence pointing to him, but not enough to make an arrest. After that though, it was basically a closed case.

 

[SuziQ]

No, this is a common misunderstanding. According to LE:


Presumably, friends went to the house and [???] - LE has not released additional information about this period, but there's at least one obvious possibility. Then...


Do not put too much thought into the wording here. This is not a quote from the call. If the word 'unconscious' was actually uttered it was probably the dispatcher who said it first.

Thank you. Dispatch has a set of protocols and language the have to use. What the 911 caller said and what Dispatch said could vary greatly. Imo.

 

[priyaya]

LE is well-trained in surveillance techniques. In my state, even private investigators have to take a 68-hour course and 30 hours of that is surveillance training.

If whoever is surveilling is good, no one would know.

MOO

Yes... which would mean you probably wouldn't know about it... unless they wanted you to know about it. They would know all the laws but also how to get around the laws without technically breaking the law to do it... but gotta wait to get a charge to stick solidly