ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

[CLGM]

When you add in the celebrity murders (by stalkers), that actually creates a significant category of "fantasy romance" murders. And you're right, it doesn't even have to be a romantic attachment (hence the quotes). I've interviewed inpatients where the thought process (as stated out loud) vascillated between extreme attraction/wanting closeness and extreme anger (at perceived distance by the desired object). The murder of Selena Pérez (aka just Selena) can probably stand adjacent to this category.

At any rate, treating psychiatrists often point out that such stalkerish/ragey behavior corresponds to the person's internal loneliness and inability to form regular relationships. This puts me in mind of data we've received (and are still collecting in the social sciences) about the rather radical drop in marriage, sex, and relationship-formation in the current crop of 18-30 year olds.

Americans are having less sex — and researchers want to know why

One of the most comprehensive sex studies to date found evidence of declines in all types of partnered sexual activity in the U.S.

www.wbur.org

This prompted me to give assignments on this topic even before COVID, when it was first noticed. It's young women who are disinterested in sex. Too many hazards, not really important to them, guys just want sex - not relationships/marriage, so why bother? Career first, desire to have children has dropped steadily over my own data collection/teaching timeline. This parallels the Rise of the Incel ( a culture I have been studying for 15 years - beginning with usenet groups and a now-defunct website; there are other websites for this subculture, which also encourages men to exploit and lie to women, as men have a "right" to do ).

Incel Terms Like Beta, Chad, and Thot Are More Dangerous Than You Think

These five toxic incel terms have become alarmingly mainstream

aninjusticemag.com

I can give more academic sources, but as this is tangential to the Idaho crime, I think these are thought-provoking and will suffice. This second article is worth a look for those people who are not familiar with these subcultures - it's quite clear and has interesting pictures and quotes.

Really fascinating!

 

[Awakening]

My theory only is that police have a short list of suspects.

At some point they’ve discovered the body cam footage and identified this car.

And LE are aware that one of their suspects owns this model car or has access to this model car.

Rather then confront the suspect and tip him off that he’s already a suspect, they’ve deliberately released this information about the car to see how he will react.

 

[layer]

I just realized this means we don't even know (and never did...but it just occurred to me) what time the killer/s left the home. Could he/they have stayed until the morning and then went out the front door? Seems highly unlikely but that rearranges things in my mind. I assumed a panicked retreat immediately after the murders. But what if it wasn't immediate and there was extended time afterwards for cleaning up or who knows. I have no evidence for this but just a possible angle I had not imagined before.

On a case going on a month, thinking outside the box is natural; and appreciated, at least by me.

 

[cottonweaver]

This is UPDATED by same reporterView attachment 385998

Bumping

The white car which we saw in the body cam was not THE car they're looking for

 

[Karin1974]

Hmmmm....no "eating popcorn" emoji on the WS list....

Ha ha, no eye roll either!

 

[layer]

Bumping

The white car which we saw in the body cam was not THE car they're looking for

Assuming makes... well, you know.

 

[Awakening]

Bumping

The white car which we saw in the body cam was not THE car they're looking for

And just 2 minutes ago I posted my theory. Shesh!

 

[steeltowngirl]

Also @10ofRods and @OckhamsRazor22 , I completely buy into the fantasy love story, but why oh why did they not assault the object of their desires when they could get them alone? Does this desire overtake them so profoundly that they have to act that very moment despite the obstacles, (other roommates), in their way?

Hi @OldCop, the OP’s will surely offer better responses than I will, but my thoughts are that the intimacy stalker may view others surrounding their target as threats. In their warped mind, they think close friends or family of their target are preventing him or her from gaining access to their “love interest.” May even believe other friends have talked the target out of returning the “love” and attention. They become enraged by the rejection, and violent against anyone who assisted the rejection.

jmo

 

[lucidium]

yes
no chance. both survivors still had cellphones ( presumably) '

Furthermore, the next morning the roommates "believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up."

 

[cottonweaver]

And just 2 minutes ago I posted my theory. Shesh!

I didn't see that post, but I spent at least half an hour yesterday trying to match up a Hyundai E & that white car in the body cam. ( I couldn't match the shapes)

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

MPD Homicide UPDATE 12/8/2022
https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24907/12-08-22-Moscow-Homocide-Update

 

[human]

I have that kind of keypad lock on our front door. You have to out in the code and it makes a whirring sound, If you miss the right time to open it, you have to enter the code again.

I have to close my door firmly or it does not actually close. It has come open if it is not closed right.

To lock the door from the outside, I press a logo and it makes a whirring sound. It is possible the killer does not know how to lock the door.

The door is locked from the inside by a simply turning device and it makes no noise at all.

or the killer knew the lock makes a whirring noise and he did not want to do that

 

[lucidium]

I have that kind of keypad lock on our front door. You have to out in the code and it makes a whirring sound, If you miss the right time to open it, you have to enter the code again.

I have to close my door firmly or it does not actually close. It has come open if it is not closed right.

To lock the door from the outside, I press a logo and it makes a whirring sound. It is possible the killer does not know how to lock the door.

The door is locked from the inside by a simply turning device and it makes no noise at all.

or the killer knew the lock makes a whirring noise and he did not want to do that

What kind of keypad lock?

 

[human]

I didn't see that post, but I spent at least half an hour yesterday trying to match up a Hyundai E & that white car in the body cam. ( I couldn't match the shapes)

Thé FBI has the data base to identify and match every car, They know

 

[EmmieA]

Thanks, but the conversation was killer trying to open their doors would be terrifying. I'm skeptical about that because they would have called for help at 3-4 am, not 9 hours later.

Maybe the killer just tried to turn the handle & when he realized it was locked didn’t try to open it any other way — I think a lot of people would sleep through that situation.

MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

 

[Snoop Sister]

I'm thinking maybe hoping the crime would be discovered by someone walking in? Proud of it? Just theorizing as no way to know.

MOO

The neighbour could be wanting her/his claim to fame as well. Is there a video feed or pic to back up his or her story? So much story telling going on!

 

[Strong1]

More from the Fox article below..

On Wednesday, former FBI Assistant Director Chris Swecker told Fox News the investigation is "at a sensitive stage."

"It’s on the verge of being a cold case in the sense that resources and the FBI and the State Police start to peel off," he said on "America’s Newsroom."

Which is a really confusing statement considering that FBI has increased it's agents from 20 to 46?

Idaho murders: Police personnel numbers changing as investigation surpasses 3 weeks

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and 21-year-old Madison Mogen were stabbed several times and killed on November 13.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Normamsmiley]

Re: The open front door.

If we assume this is an accurate statement, it doesn’t necessarily mean it has anything to do with the killer at all.

The MPD timeline states that the surviving roommates went to didn’t wake up “until later that morning”

The roommates could have woken up early and left the house (get coffee or breakfast) - with the door not properly shutting behind them.

Im just not feeling super strong about it being due to the killer. Although it’s obviously not out of the realm of possibility

 

[PrairieWind]

According to this Fox report below the personnel changes in this case.

Moscow PD - From 4 Detectives, 24 Patrol & 5 Support to 6 Detectives & 5 Support.

FBI - From 20 Agents & 2 from Behavior Analysis Unit to 46 Agents & 2 from Behavior Analysis Unit.

Idaho State Police - From 20 Agents to 13 Agents.

Seems like a pretty hefty increase for the Feds. So what do we take from this? Is it possible that this is possibly turning into Federal case? Maybe the killer crossed state lines?

Idaho murders: Police personnel numbers changing as investigation surpasses 3 weeks

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and 21-year-old Madison Mogen were stabbed several times and killed on November 13.

www.foxnews.com

It doesn't mean those people are all working the case full time. Some may only have a small contribution.
And it doesn't matter if the killer later crossed state lines. That doesn't give federal jurisdiction. I haven't seen anything yet that would make this a federal investigation. FBI involvement is I believe assistance requested by the local authorities.