ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[SkylarSid]

This is my very first post. I apologize if I mess up and write something that ends up being flagged. I assume it will be a learning process. I have been trying to figure out what could have happened once the kids were home. based on what I have read, the psycho came in from the sliding glass door. I assume the door was unlocked. The kids came home and one of them let the dog out to pee and forgot lock the sliding glass door. the psycho attached the couple at the 2 nd floor since that is the closest. it looks like the 2nd floor bedroom maybe be under one of the bedrooms on the 3rd floor. maybe One girl heard noise below went to her friends room. They called or texted due to the commotion not think it was them being attacked and the psycho made his way upstairs and attacked the girls. The dad said his daughter had different wounds maybe she was up and she resisted a bit. Since the girls did no5 go how the psycho expected he wanted to rush out so he leaves from the front door and leaves the door open.
not sure if we are allowed to speculate but here is my thoughts

Welcome to WS!

 

[otto]

No - it’s the one upthread that extends from the Walenta/Ridge area to the Shetland Ct area.
View attachment 386484

I'm still unclear on how Shetland Court or Walenta Drive relate to the mass murder.

 

[lucidium]

Agree with diggindeeperstill

A lot of suspicious reports in this area...

"A lot" compared to what? Is it more or less than the average monthly reports for Moscow, Idaho? For 2022? For November?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Either the residence or the victims are believed by the police to be targeted.

See latest investigation summary on the last page:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24923/12-10-22-Moscow-Homocide-Update

This observation of yours would support the location as a target. Good catch.

Thank you for this info, having read it, I'm still completely confused as to what happened when 'On November 13th the surviving room mates summoned friends because they believed one of the second floor victims had passed out and was not waking up...'

I know it's been debated to the nth degree but something right there doesn't stack up.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

Right? I took a nap & came back hoping for an arrest. If only wishing could make it so!

Anytime I step away from the thread, I’m hoping for good news upon my return.
It will be 4 weeks overnight tonight. Those promising, beautiful kids deserve justice, at the very least, since this monster stole their futures. Imo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

My friend had a heart episode, the paramedics broke down her door after she called 911 and arrived to a locked front door.

Ditto my mother passed away alone locked inside her flat and the fire service got in her door and cut off the security chain with bolt cutters in no time.

 

[hopewell]

So, there are some 6,000 (maybe more) white 2011-2013 Elantras nationwide, whose title numbers will be issued to LE in Moscow. They will then have to sort through it all. Many of them will have an owner's address and name that no longer correspond to the car (the person has moved, car was "sold," registration never redone - or no registration, esp. in college towns).

Students "abandon" cars to others, until they are - ultimately - abandoned from the point of view of either the city, county or college. It's even possible that the car truly didn't have registration or plates that are current (out of state California plates, for example - Californians don't surrender plates when they transfer ownership).

Last known owner is the person who LE wants to come forward, for sure. They will have many guesses about who is driving around in their car and give an amazing lead.

Quicker than genetic genealogy, IMO.

But now we need the Elantra owner to be found or come forward, so LE can find the person they are interested in.

Absolutely, but 6000 white Elantras in the US can be narrowed down pretty quickly with search parameters that gradually expand outward from Moscow. I bet a town with 24,000 people in it has, say, 10-15 (if that), and so on. Add another 5 or so for students.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Yes, light aircraft collate GIS image datasets that can be used to check attributes of the area in recent time. The images are also much much higher in definition. Sometimes it captures the inadvertent criminal.

Im think that an external security camera has caught the Elantra in an image somewhere.

If the killer has avoided cameras, and scoped out the scene, that's not really a crime of passion.
It's not an impulsive action but would appear to hold a level of pre planning
AIMOO

That means the suspect is going on google maps + viewing traffic cams online to plan his attack.

I just think we're giving this killer too much credit. Driving your car that deep into the neighborhood is just dumb and risky.

If this killer's car is on camera then we need to see it. The memphis police showed the photo they had of the killer's SUV that led to the capture of the killer several months ago when that female jogger was killed. That was early in their investigation. If Moscow has something, they need to make it public. There's nothing to gain by holding it back.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I'm not sure how I missed this but that is a great point!
If there were only unanswered phone calls, no texts or voice mails, there would have been no way to know that all the calls weren't by K since it was her phone. So there must be messages.
Great thinking!

M didn't use her own phone? Most likely she did if the reason for her calling J was because he wasn't picking up for K. Wish we knew if it was just drunk dialing or something more.
JMO

 

[accordn2me]

Isn't that database thru the NTHSB?

I’m sorry I don’t know. I think it’s safer.gov if that helps. (I’m so impressed by all of the sleuthers here on WS!)

 

[layer]

M didn't use her own phone? Most likely she did if the reason for her calling J was because he wasn't picking up for K. Wish we knew if it was just drunk dialing or something more.
JMO

The way I remember it reported was that there were 7 calls by K, 2 calls by M, then 2 more calls by K, all using K's phone.

I'll have to go way back to double check, though.

ETA:
OK, this case has scrambled my brain. This is all I can find:

“At 2:26 a.m., Kaylee starts to call Jack,” Alivia Goncalvez told Inside Edition. “Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. From 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m.”

So I guess it could be both phones. I think it was always assumed that all the calls were from K's phone because her sister had accessed her phone records using the family password.

 

[otto]

If the dog had two owners and the residence was not its natural home, more so shared residence, maybe the dog was unsettled? Oddly, the dog was not in the same room as the girls. Was the dog a disturbance to sleep? If M rang Kaylees ex ~ 2.30 in the morning, that's being a bit extreme
The dog discussion is pertinent as Murphy did not enter the crime scene. The calls to ex boyfriend at 2.56am were considered not out of the norm but one call every 8 minutes.
The girls sere both in the same room. Whose room were they in? Msds room?
Imoo

Here's the floor plan ... probably found in Madison's room, who knows. Kaylee had apparently moved out and was in Moscow for the weekend and to show her new car to friends.

The third floor victims were very likely in the same room when they made calls until 3 AM, then maybe they went to bed in their own bedrooms to sleep? The murders happened between 3-4 AM.

Do we know whether any of the victims were wearing a fitbit or apple watch?

 

[rahod1]

The levels of audacity, calculation, depravity, psychopathology, and utter strength it takes to systematically reap four people in their beds on a Saturday night at 3AM with nary a peep and without enough evidence to be caught virtually immediately afterwards, are a bit greater in both scope and magnitude than some impulsive revenge kill, aggrieved incel, 90lb Instagram 'hunter' posing with Daddy's kills, or ex-lover's quibble. Every reputable profiler I have seen regarding this case agrees the MO fits a likely serial killer.

My opinion.

Agree. If that's the case, then highly likely a knife had also been used in any previous encounters. So that begs the question>>>Are there any unsolved killings with similar circumstances??<<< I recall killings in Oregon and Washington mentioned here that are in this category. Have those been *ruled out* by LE?

 

[b2alicia]

I think about the people who are still living in Moscow... teachers? office workers? tradespeople? If I lived there, I would be trying to find a relative or friend to visit until this was solved. (hopefully)

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Is it any way possible this event was a deliberate underworld assassination 'shout out' (say for example a bad debt or drug turf war) and the wrong household was targeted? Did the perpetrator(s) maybe believe they were wiping out someone's family?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

How set in stone is the 3-4 AM ToD? I know this was the initial "guesstimate"...using guesstimate because determining ToD is somewhat inaccurate, especially as time elapses. I've also read "early morning hours" but most sources and sleuths are going with that single hour. But what if it were 3-5? Or 3-6 which would turn dangerous for the killer if he had to travel even a short distance, but this is the period of time for which MPD has requested outside surveillance video. If this were carefully planned (never mind its being "sloppy") then the killer would've known that between 4-5 AM most of the sleepers would be in either slow wave (hard to awaken) or REM sleep which paralyzes the muscles except for the eyes and breathing (atonia). I'm convinced he was watching and knew when the lights all went out... and then waited maybe 60-90 minutes to initiate. Someday we may learn if there's a substantial difference in the victims' times of death. Stages of Sleep

And I’d like to add to this, the sleeping position.
Statistically speaking, at least one or more of the victims were sleeping on their stomach, this would give the killer total control and the sleeping victim none whatsoever, they’d be dead before they even knew what was happening. JMO

 

[Alethea]

Is it any way possible this event was a deliberate underworld assassination 'shout out' (say for example a bad debt or drug turf war) and the wrong household was targeted? Did the perpetrator(s) maybe believe they were wiping out someone's family?

No it's not possible.

 

[10ofRods]

There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen.

Exactly. It is just one of several scenarios that could explain this perplexing request.

A car model, color and year. No license or serial number. No known owner. No plates ever seen? Or no plates at all? Or, perhaps, just not seen so could be either?

And they want its form activities (they say), not its current whereabouts.

LOL - I agree with you. I’ll also add LE checked with other local stores with respect to sales of large fixed blade knives — they just haven’t spoken to press.

Not to bash MBS at all - my better half absentmindedly left his money clip near a register some time back. MBS reviewed their security footage, found footage of the person who made off with it, IDed the culprit, & got the money clip back (absent the cash). Had the knife been purchased there during a decent time frame, I have no doubt security footage would have been invaluable!

Sorry for not being clearer: I was specifically interested in your focus on bruising with respect to K only?

Oh, I know what you mean. The other mention of bruising.

That's coming from her father. I believe that the coroner said there was "bruising" on the victims (and did not specify how many, I am assuming all of them). SG decided that meant "she fought defensively." Yet, the Coroner has only specifically mentioned 1 person with defensive wounds (X).

The bruises mentioned by the coroner are not equivalent to "defense wounds" (which were mentioned separately). I am guessing the bruises that were most important were those caused by the hilt of the knife, the killing instrument. So LE got confirmation from the Coroner (IMO) that it was a hilted knife, due to bruises. K's father has misunderstood, IMO.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Does anyone know if there is a viable trail behind Queen and King Rd in Moscow over to Walenta Trail?

You can look here: 1122 King Rd

1122 King Rd · 1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843

Building

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[EmmieA]

This is a day after the murder. It’s an abandoned jacket near the crime scene. How would they know it isn’t related?

Oof. And they probably hadn’t seen the food truck video yet where M is wearing a large black jacket! (I’m not sure when that was discovered)

MOO