ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

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Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Speaking of which, why are LE so convinced this is the work of only one person when it could be two or more? Bearing in mind the number of victims, surely one logical conclusion could be there is more than one perpetrator.
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Maybe there was only one set of shoe prints (or covered shoe prints) going up the stairs, down the stairs, in and out of rooms and finally outside. There could have been 2 people but they either would have to be wearing identical shoes (size included) or one of them would have to have left no shoe prints at all which would be impossible I think. I believe if LE found more than one type of shoe prints they would have said so but maybe not...IDK.
 
This is my very first post. I apologize if I mess up and write something that ends up being flagged. I assume it will be a learning process. I have been trying to figure out what could have happened once the kids were home. based on what I have read, the psycho came in from the sliding glass door. I assume the door was unlocked. The kids came home and one of them let the dog out to pee and forgot lock the sliding glass door. the psycho attached the couple at the 2 nd floor since that is the closest. it looks like the 2nd floor bedroom maybe be under one of the bedrooms on the 3rd floor. maybe One girl heard noise below went to her friends room. They called or texted due to the commotion not think it was them being attacked and the psycho made his way upstairs and attacked the girls. The dad said his daughter had different wounds maybe she was up and she resisted a bit. Since the girls did no5 go how the psycho expected he wanted to rush out so he leaves from the front door and leaves the door open.
not sure if we are allowed to speculate but here is my thoughts
 
Auntie Cipation said:
I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO
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pmondrian2020 said:
The news story from the Moscow paper 2 days ago quoted neighbors as saying that that evening was very quiet and there were no parties in that area that night. The same article quotes the neighbor who now recalls that he may have heard a scream as he fell asleep sometime around 4 but he didn't think much of it at the time as it could have been someone having a good time and screaming .
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How set in stone is the 3-4 AM ToD? I know this was the initial "guesstimate"...using guesstimate because determining ToD is somewhat inaccurate, especially as time elapses. I've also read "early morning hours" but most sources and sleuths are going with that single hour. But what if it were 3-5? Or 3-6 which would turn dangerous for the killer if he had to travel even a short distance, but this is the period of time for which MPD has requested outside surveillance video. If this were carefully planned (never mind its being "sloppy") then the killer would've known that between 4-5 AM most of the sleepers would be in either slow wave (hard to awaken) or REM sleep which paralyzes the muscles except for the eyes and breathing (atonia). I'm convinced he was watching and knew when the lights all went out... and then waited maybe 60-90 minutes to initiate. Someday we may learn if there's a substantial difference in the victims' times of death. Stages of Sleep
 
10ofRods said:
Nothing will. And it would be a weird thing to be caught running around in, on such a night.

But it would disguise the blood spatter for longer than certain other styles of clothing (and contain the shedding of DNA - which is far more important to this perp, IMO).

Okay, so here's a question I have. Early on, there are newspaper reporters with pictures of LE in the backyard of the house. For quite a while.

Could fastidious killer with wetsuit have paused to rinse a bit of blood off? Had he stored clothes back there at one point? (more likely). When I saw how much time they spent in the back yard, I wondered if he were a smoker or had left other outdoor evidence of his long wait for the 4 to settle in.

If main goal is to contain DNA, choose wetsuit (even if it means
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I'm thinking something more like kevlar clothing. It's becoming more mainstream nowadays altho expensive it's known for durability withstanding all manner of extreme circumstances.
 
North_Idaho_Nony said:
Our coroner is elected & has been re-elected several times. Y’all may think it looks weird or is bad for optics or whatever, but this community obviously disagrees. To me, this seems like a nothingburger in relation to the quadruple murder. JMHO, of course!
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My sister got her, probably 5th DUI (long story/short - in this state if you don't get a DUI within 5 years of your 3rd, your next one is rolled back to 1st DUI) and her attorney for her 4th DUI (considered by courts to be her 1st due to 5 year roll over) was also the judge for the 5th that occurred a few months after the 4th in which he had defended he (actually considered a 2nd due to the 5 year roll over). So nothing surprises me about the coroner being a defense attorney.
 
HopeValleyDevil said:
They have a perpetrator enter a house and stab four persons with a knife to death. Thats not a random shooting or crime of passion



We were given the data on the number of white Elantras.

I wonder if police have worked through the datasets of stolen white Elantras, from the inner perimeter out?

The same could be said of recently transferred vehicles. Automated plate readers have diminished stolen plates etc.

That would be some interesting modelling

What is a 2011 Elantra worth in the US? Its a 10 year old car AIMOO

Ok, so a 2013 Elantra is about $9000 USD
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There continues to be zero evidence that the car is stolen.
 
hopewell said:
Doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult for most/all state's DMV IT folks to query those characteristics in their respective databases. Even if no current registration is present there will be a title number that can at a minimum be traced back to the last known owner, who could then give up the name of the purchaser.

My opinion.
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So, there are some 6,000 (maybe more) white 2011-2013 Elantras nationwide, whose title numbers will be issued to LE in Moscow. They will then have to sort through it all. Many of them will have an owner's address and name that no longer correspond to the car (the person has moved, car was "sold," registration never redone - or no registration, esp. in college towns).

Students "abandon" cars to others, until they are - ultimately - abandoned from the point of view of either the city, county or college. It's even possible that the car truly didn't have registration or plates that are current (out of state California plates, for example - Californians don't surrender plates when they transfer ownership).

Last known owner is the person who LE wants to come forward, for sure. They will have many guesses about who is driving around in their car and give an amazing lead.

Quicker than genetic genealogy, IMO.

But now we need the Elantra owner to be found or come forward, so LE can find the person they are interested in.
 
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Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Speaking of which, why are LE so convinced this is the work of only one person when it could be two or more? Bearing in mind the number of victims, surely one logical conclusion could be there is more than one perpetrator.
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I haven’t read or heard LE have it locked in there’s only one perp.

The autopsies could reveal one perp if it’s the same knife used to kill all victims, there’s blood contamination from victim to victim, and the method or style the killer used to stab, right or left handed etc.
But, there could be an accomplice waiting in a car, being the lookout, but for some reason, I think it’s a lone killer.

JMO
 
NuttMegg said:
Didn't M call JD, using KG's phone? (Meaning call or text). or maybe you mean something else. I'm still not understanding how they knew it was M making the calls unless the family could see a voice mail or text message.
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I'm not sure how I missed this but that is a great point!
If there were only unanswered phone calls, no texts or voice mails, there would have been no way to know that all the calls weren't by K since it was her phone. So there must be messages.
Great thinking!
 
lucidium said:
There are private industry satellites (think Google Maps) that take point in time snapshots. They do not hover over the same area for any length of time (and it's difficult to overstate how tiny the area they image at any one time is compared to the surface of the earth). If you have [USA] government spy satellites in mind, those would not be over Idaho. I can't imagine any satellites would be focused on Moscow, Idaho for an extended period of time.
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Yes, light aircraft collate GIS image datasets that can be used to check attributes of the area in recent time. The images are also much much higher in definition. Sometimes it captures the inadvertent criminal.

Im think that an external security camera has caught the Elantra in an image somewhere.

If the killer has avoided cameras, and scoped out the scene, that's not really a crime of passion.
It's not an impulsive action but would appear to hold a level of pre planning
AIMOO
 
mms9900 said:
This is my very first post. I apologize if I mess up and write something that ends up being flagged. I assume it will be a learning process. I have been trying to figure out what could have happened once the kids were home. based on what I have read, the psycho came in from the sliding glass door. I assume the door was unlocked. The kids came home and one of them let the dog out to pee and forgot lock the sliding glass door. the psycho attached the couple at the 2 nd floor since that is the closest. it looks like the 2nd floor bedroom maybe be under one of the bedrooms on the 3rd floor. maybe One girl heard noise below went to her friends room. They called or texted due to the commotion not think it was them being attacked and the psycho made his way upstairs and attacked the girls. The dad said his daughter had different wounds maybe she was up and she resisted a bit. Since the girls did no5 go how the psycho expected he wanted to rush out so he leaves from the front door and leaves the door open.
not sure if we are allowed to speculate but here is my thoughts
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Welcome in. Very little of what you stated is confirmed, and much is factually incorrect. That is understandable - there is a lot of misinformation out there. I suggest you start with the MPD site where official updates are published.
 
hopewell said:
The levels of audacity, calculation, depravity, psychopathology, and utter strength it takes to systematically reap four people in their beds on a Saturday night at 3AM with nary a peep and without enough evidence to be caught virtually immediately afterwards, are a bit greater in both scope and magnitude than some impulsive revenge kill, aggrieved incel, 90lb Instagram 'hunter' posing with Daddy's kills, or ex-lover's quibble. Every reputable profiler I have seen regarding this case agrees the MO fits a likely serial killer.

My opinion.
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I agree, from ear!y on I thought serial killer.

Yes, I do believe it was easy to kill the sleeping victims based on a funny personal experience that just keep popping into my head . Please no disrespect intended.
My GD was at a sleep over with 9 of her besties. She woke up, couldn't sleep, grabbed the water based marker and drew beautiful designs on her besties face. That gave her confidence to move on to the next one, and the next. After painting 9, she did her own, and went to sleep. It was afternoon before she fessed up, no one could believe, she did it, she's usually so perfect. Yea, she said she had more confidence with each one she wouldn't get caught. When she tells the story, I can see the excitement , the gleam in her eye...and she's always been the perfect one. (Just got her first college acceptance letter into forensic science and she loved WS)

I can see a killer having an easy kill, little or no resistance, gaining confidence and moving on to the next.

Its the thrill of success.
 
cottonweaver said:
yes I do but I genuinely don't think local reporter Lauren Mathias would lie about that mother.
And I honestly don't think Mathias would say that on Banfield if she hasn't checked it out with the mother. ( Mathias got loads of scoops on the Vallow Daybell case - she got people who wouldn't speak to any other media, despite them being offered big bucks from the top channels)

I expect a lot of students in Moscow are being chivvied by their parents to check their phones, being asked what they remember in order to get that info to LE etc
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There was an earlier story that came out (a couple weeks ago) that actually quoted the mom of Ethan's friend. For the life of me I cannot find it, you may have more luck. I'll keep looking tho.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
In cases of emergency services they can smash doors to smithereens in no time, they are used to attending premises that are locked up, bolted, and secure. The person on the inside must always be able to get out but a door wedge wouldn't prevent that - it's deadlocks with no release that are dangerous if the resident doesn't keep the key sitting inside the lock. Whereas most stealth attackers are not coming to noisily and furiously smash your door in so a wedge will keep them at bay for a while.
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If first responder emergency services want to get in, they just smash a window.

The roof is some form of shingles, albeit with insulation.

Current speculation is, the perpetrator entered via an open sliding door?

Strictly opinion only

Material facts can be found here: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID
 
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