ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[EmmieA]

Good points! Any of the 3 female victims could have had one creepy customer who always insisted that they wait their table. Maybe this unknown creep knew what time their shift ended and followed them home, and began surveiling the house until he became familiar with their daily routine.

I suppose whatever happened with the girls at the Corner Club will remain a mystery as not much of anything is known about the 2 hrs they spent there, and bar employees as well as patrons have been asked by LE to not speak to the press. One might speculate that cameras inside the bar could have possibly identified potential POI's, but LE is obviously keeping what they know close to the vest.

BBM. Did LE ask them to not speak to the press? I’ve heard the owner of the bar has chosen to only deal with LE (& not speak to the press) and has asked his employees to do the same. A patron who was there that night & also at the food truck has spoken out on SM (I think he has also been quoted in MSM.)

MOO

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

I just had a quick look on street view and can certainly see the attractions for a perp.
Do you know if there any fences which stop a perp leaving the murder house via that tree-line, up the incline and then on foot to Walenta and then down the path which you have identified? ( I couldn't tell on street view)

Unfortunately not. I haven’t been able to spend as much time as I’d like to on this case. It’s even worse trying to map on mobile, which is what I’m currently designated to.

Like you mentioned: it’s more of how a perp or two would be attracted to the symmetry, possible directional reference, just a few limited and spaced-out residences and subsequent cameras, and even a potential rendezvous.

 

[hopewell]

Not LE ... just an opinion ... also curious

The golden tip would be someone calling in to say they'd seen a car at the neighbor's house, but it's been in the garage since the murders. Barring that, I think police would look at vehicle owners in a 50 mile radius, zeroing on 20 miles. They would look for recent sales, whether any VIN were not re-registered. I'm not sure how it is there, but here, vehicles require an annual VIN registration renewal with proof of insurance. If a car disappeared from the registry, that would be interesting. After that, 200 miles radius.

Can an out of State student study there for 4 years and not register the vehicle in State? Curious about students selling vehicles to other students, where they don't worry too much about the paperwork for casual use. I'm curious whether that's common in this college town.

I'm guessing that investigators are pouring through CCTV footage on all major routes leading from the mass murder, especially routes leaving Moscow, looking for the car.

Don't forget that cars are assigned title numbers at purchase, which cuts through the whole VIN/registration process when trying to identify owners. Because even cars that aren't registered have title numbers.

My opinion.

 

[lucidium]

I wonder if a satellite image may have captured activity. Has anyone any knowledge of the use of satellite images in crime investigation and the probability of coverage around the University ?

There are private industry satellites (think Google Maps) that take point in time snapshots. They do not hover over the same area for any length of time (and it's difficult to overstate how tiny the area they image at any one time is compared to the surface of the earth). If you have [USA] government spy satellites in mind, those would not be over Idaho. I can't imagine any satellites would be focused on Moscow, Idaho for an extended period of time.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

What about the database that’s been set up for the Takata air bag recall? That database knows whether or not a specific car has had the recalled repairs made or not. Could it possibly be used given such a wide net (a range of years, no specific state)?

Isn't that database thru the NTHSB?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

You are right about there possibly being a sexual component to these homicides. If the killer is a sexual sadist his sexual excitement is directly related to the amount of pain, terror and suffering that he inflicts on his victims. This type of killer heavily fantasises about committing this type of crime prior to acting out on his urges. Callous and psychopathic would best describe his personality, but I don't think anyone is quite sure if this is the type of killer we are dealing with here.

Do we know if there was any evidence of sexual abuses perpetrated on the victims?

 

[TravellingCat]

I did a bit of research, I didn't see any states excluded, I checked Virginia, Vermont, Idaho and California. All allow Billl of Sale in lieu of title and reading the detail they are required to issue/recreate a title, before a state can issue to tag. Keep in mind the federal government owns most roads and heavily funds state and local. This is a federal required.

If you know of a state they does not participate Is be very interested to research.

It appears all the data from several agencies are extracted under the authority of the DOJ and DOT. These are refered to as, common working files, they are down loaded into a centralized data base nightly. Certain federal, state and local agencies have authority to access these records.

A good example ....ever been stopped out of state for a road check and they ask for your license and registration? LE runs the registration thru this national data base. Its a very used system, with many capabilities.

Moo...

So, my compliance data was out of date. I was thinking back ten years ago, showing age. It does appear there is now 99% compliance across states, with most of the noncompliance in Hawaii. It is ofc a very valuable database that has greatly improved car recovery and fraud prevention. My point remains though that without a license plate number or VIN, it's not simple to just search this database. There are limitations and issues with inconsistencies in how/what information is reported making it more difficult than just searching up and getting a nice list of all of the white Hyundai Elantra's in the country.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

This is what I have always thought about the dog - it didn't necessarily have to be with Kaylee because it was young, and so familiar with the roommates, it just wanted to be in a bed with someone at night. And I'm sure the roommates didn't mind having the dog around, or think twice if it slept in their room, especially if they thought there was a party going on (if that is still the narrative? I remember this being said at the beginning but can't find a specific source, it may just be speculation). MOO.

If the dog had two owners and the residence was not its natural home, more so shared residence, maybe the dog was unsettled? Oddly, the dog was not in the same room as the girls. Was the dog a disturbance to sleep? If M rang Kaylees ex ~ 2.30 in the morning, that's being a bit extreme
The dog discussion is pertinent as Murphy did not enter the crime scene. The calls to ex boyfriend at 2.56am were considered not out of the norm but one call every 8 minutes.
The girls sere both in the same room. Whose room were they in? Msds room?
Imoo

 

[10ofRods]

A 10+ year old white Hyundai Elantra isn't a common car anymore. There are not very many on the road today. And you don't need a VIN or license plate - anyone owning one could be found within hours/couple of days via DMV title searches in every state. Then narrow it down from there.

My opinion.

Oh, sure. The ownerS *very much a plural*.

I am sure that's plan B - but, given the number of different states' licenses one sees in the inter-mountain West, it's a lot of separate people to go try and find. Legal owner - yes. Actual driver/owner? Maybe.

Lots of college students just leave a car for their younger fraternity brother, and so it goes.

I figure there's a glitch like that, or LE would never have asked for help.

 

[lucidium]

A Red Herring??
Is it possible the white car revelation is only a very small part of the investigation yet it has caused the "sleuths" to focus on something rather than the performance of LE. The white car search has now "united" LE with the sleuths in looking for something that can possibly help solve the case. The focus is now on is the car repainted; at the bottom of a lake or abandoned on a forest road; what type of records at the DMV are available etc etc.

Just sayin'

What? The focus is absolutely not on those things.

(Unless you mean the focus of random internet communities.)

 

[EJB123456]

I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO

I have a young adult and two teenagers. They don't even set up their voicemails, let alone use them. I personally don't think voicemails are involved. MOO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What if there's a fire?

At the county office I work in, the Fire Marshall has said that door wedges are not allowed to be kept near doors but he does allow them to be kept in desks because they can be used when sheltering-in-place in the event of an active shooter situation.

In cases of emergency services they can smash doors to smithereens in no time, they are used to attending premises that are locked up, bolted, and secure. The person on the inside must always be able to get out but a door wedge wouldn't prevent that - it's deadlocks with no release that are dangerous if the resident doesn't keep the key sitting inside the lock. Whereas most stealth attackers are not coming to noisily and furiously smash your door in so a wedge will keep them at bay for a while.

 

[Ceska]

They have a perpetrator enter a house and stab four persons with a knife to death. Thats not a random shooting or crime of passion



We were given the data on the number of white Elantras.

I wonder if police have worked through the datasets of stolen white Elantras, from the inner perimeter out?

The same could be said of recently transferred vehicles. Automated plate readers have diminished stolen plates etc.

That would be some interesting modelling

What is a 2011 Elantra worth in the US? Its a 10 year old car AIMOO

Ok, so a 2013 Elantra is about $9000 USD

Yes, someone killed four people.. but, I don't live very far from where Jayme Closs was kidnapped and her parents were murdered.... I really don't recall as many LE involved and especially so many FBI. Both horrific crimes involving more than one victim.

 

[CeeMDubs]

An interesting page about knife wounds (warning: picture of a stabbing victim with a knife protruding from their stomach on top of page): stab wounds :: www.forensicmed.co.uk

I think this killer is possibly ex-military, athletic, and reserved, but not necessarily awkward or an incel. Possibly suffers from PTSD and anger issues. Has possibly killed while serving overseas, but hasn’t committed blatant murder in the US before. I think he was making a statement or wanted a name for himself and he is proud of his “work.” Could also have been attracted to one or more roommates, maybe encountered them in passing, but didn’t know them well or personally. Just a theory I have and JMO.

 

[hopewell]

Oh, sure. The ownerS *very much a plural*.

I am sure that's plan B - but, given the number of different states' licenses one sees in the inter-mountain West, it's a lot of separate people to go try and find. Legal owner - yes. Actual driver/owner? Maybe.

Lots of college students just leave a car for their younger fraternity brother, and so it goes.

I figure there's a glitch like that, or LE would never have asked for help.

Doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult for most/all state's DMV IT folks to query those characteristics in their respective databases. Even if no current registration is present there will be a title number that can at a minimum be traced back to the last known owner, who could then give up the name of the purchaser.

My opinion.

 

[accordn2me]

Did the survivors have wedges, or is this surmising?

Total speculation on my part. Besides the letters from those surviving roommates (that were read at the memorial service) we, the public, have not heard one peep from them on anything concerning these crimes.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes many students will keep their cars registered in their home state, as that is where they are still resident. However, the college would know who the out of state students are and that list can easily be run against the list of all white Elantras to see if there is a common address. If it's a student with the car, I don't think it would take LE very long to figure out who. JMO

So...students from out of state actually go and let the university know? Is that required for a parking permit?

What if the car is in the name of a parent (which it very frequently is)? Or a grandparent (also very common)?

That's the problem with (most) college towns.

 

[WildWest]

I was surprised, myself, when I heard about our Fire Marshall's order. I feel as you do, but you and I aren't everyone else and, in a panic, or if the person is a child, they may miss a door wedge and not be able to egress from a burning building. It makes sense to me that officials would not publicly recommend that people block a means of egress in this way.

The hard truth is that we are vulnerable in our sleep. We use an alarm system at my place, with cameras that emit a deterrent alarm and if doors or windows are breached the main alarm goes off immediately when the system is armed. Nothing is perfect, though.

My friend had a heart episode, the paramedics broke down her door after she called 911 and arrived to a locked front door.

 

[CeeMDubs]

I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO

I recall Kaylee’s sister, Alivea, stating that J shared the messages (whether texts or voicemails) with the family immediately.

 

[lucidium]

A 10+ year old white Hyundai Elantra isn't a common car anymore. There are not very many on the road today. And you don't need a VIN or license plate - anyone owning one could be found within hours/couple of days via DMV title searches in every state. Then narrow it down from there.

My opinion.

Can you explain more why you think this process would have already been completed? Assume, for the sake of argument, that LE has a detailed list of all matching cars, owners, and valid contact info. What additional steps are necessary to find the particular car that they are searching for?