ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[Dysfunkshun]

I respect Mary-Ellen O’Toole’s opinions. She thinks the killer was familiar w the house from being inside at some point, not from looking online. Serial or no? Definitely mass.

 

[di anna]

Might not be a bad idea to post a picture of the car on this website again.

 

[hopewell]

I respect Mary-Ellen’s O’Toole’s opinions. She thinks the killer was familiar w the house from being inside at some point, not from looking online. Serial or no? Definitely mass.

I think at this point, and with BAU getting on scene and involved immediately, that it essentially has to be a serial killer. And as quickly as BAU got there, probably even a known one to them.

My opinion.

 

[accordn2me]

Police Tell Moscow Residents 'Travel in Groups,' Be Vigilant​

Residents and visitors are urged to be extra vigilant while traveling through town in order to pick up on anything suspicious. Local law enforcement further urged people to try and always travel in groups, to decrease the likelihood that something might happen to them. Officials also called for people to communicate with friends and family before and after traveling, so that someone else is always aware that they are safe.
Source

I wonder if police know about door wedges? Why aren’t they telling people to get them, and to make sure sliding doors and windows are secured?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

interesting

from the voice, I can tell that's Lauren Matthias interviewing him ( local reporter & runs blog Hidden True Crime ) @Emerald1328

She is not a local reporter at all.

 

[Janitor101]

The knife will lead to motive... or motive will make the knife understandable. But IMO the knife is a very personal, intimate way to kill someone which might have a sexual component. Although there was no evidence of sexual assault, I do wonder if there was a sexual element to at least one of the killings that would not be categorized as an assault. Where is the line drawn, if there is a line. I would not expect this information to be released to the public, possibly only in testimony by the coroner and ME.

The knife will lead to motive... or motive will make the knife understandable. But IMO the knife is a very personal, intimate way to kill someone which might have a sexual component. Although there was no evidence of sexual assault, I do wonder if there was a sexual element to at least one of the killings that would not be categorized as an assault. Where is the line drawn, if there is a line. I would not expect this information to be released to the public, possibly only in testimony by the coroner and ME.

You are right about there possibly being a sexual component to these homicides. If the killer is a sexual sadist his sexual excitement is directly related to the amount of pain, terror and suffering that he inflicts on his victims. This type of killer heavily fantasises about committing this type of crime prior to acting out on his urges. Callous and psychopathic would best describe his personality, but I don't think anyone is quite sure if this is the type of killer we are dealing with here.

 

[L.laricina]

Hate to be pedantic, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe LE have ever named the brand of the knife used.

Early on there were reports from a local store that LE were asking about one, but AFAIK that's all that has been mentioned as far as the brand is concerned.

I think you are correct, but there was initial reporting that LE was questioning local shop owners as to this specific blade.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268833397.html

I have no reason to question the integrity of these reports, or that of the news outlet which made them, so I take them at face value.

 

[pmondrian2020]

I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO

Don't we know from the LE bodycam footage (from the 3am drunk student reporting in the field across the street) that KG/MM turned their lights off at 3am (as one sees their lights turning off in the video)? Since this is after the time of the phone calls, it suggests that there was no intruder/noises until after 3am, and that the phone calls were the usual crazy late night phone calling behavior that it is said that KG did engage in.

 

[TIGER0822]

I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO

I thought I recalled that KG's and MM's families were very close? The girls had been friends forever but I also thought the families themselves were close.

So I could easily see them navigating this tragedy together and sharing whatever information they have between them, including comparing each daughter's phone records.

Maybe that could also explain how SG might have seen the injuries on MM's body, if the two families went together to view them, and maybe to support each other they stuck together and both viewed each girl together.

About those last phone calls to J -- I do wonder if there were no voicemail messages left? If not, I don't feel 100% certain these were unrelated calls. Could the girls have heard noises downstairs or even seen someone walking outside, entering the house etc, but for whatever reason they didn't think they needed to call 911 but were worried enough to call J?

I half wondered if they were inadvertent "pocket-dial" calls during the attack itself, but for both phones to call J seems unlikely.

Or, maybe the girls saw the police lights at the Band Field incident and were calling J about that? (to see what he knew or to make sure he wasn't involved)?

MOO

together.

There's one obvious unusual thing here -- the knife; and that makes it the signifier.

Solve the knife and solve the crime.

And solving the murders identity would help too.

 

[nightrider17]

So some of the neighbours have stated that there were regular parties at this house - during the week as well as weekends.


So if this was planned???


Interestingly - this happened when there were no parties for this date.

Was that just random - that it occurred during one of the rare times there is no party at this house??

In addition, the occupants where not out altogether - some in pairs but at totally different venues. If this was planned - did they somehow know this was likely???

If you were planning to do this - you wouldn't want a party going on, and if you had been observing them - the person would also know parties are a regular occurrence - So I am wondering how did they know - no party.

All my own opinions.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

The amount of Federal agents on this case, has me thinking.... I really don't recall so many Federal agents on most other murder cases. Thoughts?

They have a perpetrator enter a house and stab four persons with a knife to death. Thats not a random shooting or crime of passion

Just some misc. data on stolen cars and car recovery:
2012 Progressive Insurance press release: "While on average a car was recovered roughly 46% of the time, the state-by-state recovery rate varied greatly. In Washington, the highest state for recovery, cars were recovered 71% of the time. In Michigan, the lowest state for recovery, cars were recovered just 19% of the time." Could not locate Idaho specific data.
Statistia shows a national average of 56.4% recovery rate for locally stolen cars in 2020, and Idaho had the 4th lowest stolen vehicle rate of all states in 2020.
Edit:
Another report touches on analysis of the correlation between finding the vehicle and making an arrest: "Overall, we didn't find a very strong correlation between the likelihood of a car recovery and an arrest. This suggests that finding the car does not have a strong impact on whether the police are able to apprehend the culprit or vice versa."

We were given the data on the number of white Elantras.

I wonder if police have worked through the datasets of stolen white Elantras, from the inner perimeter out?

The same could be said of recently transferred vehicles. Automated plate readers have diminished stolen plates etc.

That would be some interesting modelling

What is a 2011 Elantra worth in the US? Its a 10 year old car AIMOO

Ok, so a 2013 Elantra is about $9000 USD

 

[nightrider17]

I am leaning to online/social media stalker. MOO

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

What strikes me as interesting about the car, is that they’ve specified a very exact make/model/generation which implies they have clear enough pictures to make this assertion but either A.) Couldn’t capture the LP due to the angle of the picture, B.) The LP doesn’t align with a 2011-13 Elantra, or C.) They know the LP but the owner has identified it as stolen during that time period.

For the Canadian Border Patrol to be on the lookout for it, this would imply that they have not recovered the vehicle, which would lean against option B, as that would be incredibly risky for the driver to still be driving a car on APB with an unmatched LP at this point. Really same for option C as well, seems incredibly risky I lean toward option A, and if so the reason LE might put this out there is for a neighbor/friend/family member to maybe notify LE that the owner isn’t driving the car any more, which would be very suspicious. Unless the car was in fact stolen and dumped somewhere and hasn’t been found yet (emphasize o

Don't we know from the LE bodycam footage that KG/MM turned their lights off at 3am (as one sees their lights turning off in the video)? Since this is after the time of the phone calls, it suggests that there was no intruder/noises until after 3am, and that the phone calls were the usual crazy late night phone calling behavior that it is said that KG did engage in.

Links to follow your post. Thank you

 

[gliving]

Now I'm seeing Elantras everywhere. Is that one in the background?



From this video at :40

 

[TIGER0822]

I hope that they have been looking for this car since the start. Otherwise they ain’t gonna find it.
MOSCOW, Idaho – Ports of entry along the U.S.-Canadian border are monitoring for a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra that was in the "immediate area" of a home where four University of Idaho students were murdered last month, a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) spokesperson said.

The Moscow Police Department said on Wednesday that they want to speak to the occupant or occupants of the vehicle, whom they believe may have "critical information" about the quadruple homicide on Nov. 13.

"Our ports of entry out that way are aware of it and will be keeping an eye out for it," a CBP spokesperson told Fox News Digital.

 

[L.laricina]

I wonder if police know about door wedges? Why aren’t they telling people to get them, and to make sure sliding doors and windows are secured?

What if there's a fire?

At the county office I work in, the Fire Marshall has said that door wedges are not allowed to be kept near doors but he does allow them to be kept in desks because they can be used when sheltering-in-place in the event of an active shooter situation.

 

[otto]

Question for anyone with relevant LE experience:
How do you think they are conducting the search for the car? I would suspect that first, they would look at matching vehicles by distance to crime scene. But then what? This is where having so many agents on the case might make the difference. That's probably a lot of conversations. I assume if I owned that car 10 miles away they would contact me and question me about my car's and my whereabouts that night. Memories are probably foggy this far out though. There are cases where distinguishing characteristics of specific makes/models break the case -- probably too much to hope for.

Ideally they would spray the interior with Luminol -- it's reasonable to think a bloodied perp would leave some blood behind even if he cleaned... If you have experience with this stuff, what do you think they're doing?

Not LE ... just an opinion ... also curious

The golden tip would be someone calling in to say they'd seen a car at the neighbor's house, but it's been in the garage since the murders. Barring that, I think police would look at vehicle owners in a 50 mile radius, zeroing on 20 miles. They would look for recent sales, whether any VIN were not re-registered. I'm not sure how it is there, but here, vehicles require an annual VIN registration renewal with proof of insurance. If a car disappeared from the registry, that would be interesting. After that, 200 miles radius.

Can an out of State student study there for 4 years and not register the vehicle in State? Curious about students selling vehicles to other students, where they don't worry too much about the paperwork for casual use. I'm curious whether that's common in this college town.

I'm guessing that investigators are pouring through CCTV footage on all major routes leading from the mass murder, especially routes leaving Moscow, looking for the car.

 

[Father Dowling]

I hope that they have been looking for this car since the start. Otherwise they ain’t gonna find it.
MOSCOW, Idaho – Ports of entry along the U.S.-Canadian border are monitoring for a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra that was in the "immediate area" of a home where four University of Idaho students were murdered last month, a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) spokesperson said.

The Moscow Police Department said on Wednesday that they want to speak to the occupant or occupants of the vehicle, whom they believe may have "critical information" about the quadruple homicide on Nov. 13.

"Our ports of entry out that way are aware of it and will be keeping an eye out for it," a CBP spokesperson told Fox News Digital.

Not entirely sure - if in fact a 2011-13 white elantra did already cross border into Canada. that would definitely be found eventually by LE and then known it was now in Canada, and if it didn’t return put even more pressure on driver as now their facial picture would be on camera having crossed the border - would pretty much bring a POI directly into spotlight (even if they’re on the run in Canada).

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I've been following your posts on this path. Is there any way to check city records on what was there before the house was built on the path. If that makes sense. It is very interesting. Thanks for your pursuing this and updating!

The house was there before the path. IIRC, the house was built circa 1958 & the path was started maybe a decade or two later & was subsequently extended when the Shetland Ct area development (can’t remember the official name) was permitted in the 1990-2000s (give or take). Moo.

 

[pmondrian2020]

Can an out of State student study there for 4 years and not register the vehicle in State? Curious about students selling vehicles to other students, where they don't worry too much about the paperwork for casual use. I'm curious whether that's common in this college town.

Yes many students will keep their cars registered in their home state, as that is where they are still resident. However, the college would know who the out of state students are and that list can easily be run against the list of all white Elantras to see if there is a common address. If it's a student with the car, I don't think it would take LE very long to figure out who. JMO