ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[EJB123456]

I'm not sure how I missed this but that is a great point!
If there were only unanswered phone calls, no texts or voice mails, there would have been no way to know that all the calls weren't by K since it was her phone. So there must be messages.
Great thinking!

If the messages were texts, they’d still not know that some came from Madee because unless she signed the text - ‘from Madee’ (this is weird and imo wouldn’t be what happened) they’d just all appear to come from K. And from experience, it would defeat the purpose to have someone else call but from my number because if they weren’t picking up because they didn’t want to talk to me, the idea would be to use a different number because I’m trying to figure out if they have muted or blocked me.

I think Madee used her own phone and J probable told the Goncalves that he had missed calls or texts from her.

I continue to contend this age group doesn’t use voicemail with their peers.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

I may have missed this obvious thing, apologies if I did. Did they say the Hyundai lead came from the body cam footage? If so, did they ever post the actual photo they’re basing the and model of the car on?

No

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Agreed. I feel this was a targeted attack. I’ll be honest. There were numerous times in college where I didn’t show up back at my home anywhere from 12-8AM. That’s just college. The killer KNEW everyone was home IMO. Which makes me think he knew who lived there, he knew what his targets were doing, he knew his threats, and he knew where his targets were. He ALSO knew. He wouldn’t be interrupted. This is someone close to the victims.

IMO this person has been at the residence previously and knew who lived there. There were at least 4 cars parked outside. I don't think a random killer would enter a house with that many cars outside without knowing who was there.

 

[lucidium]

No not really, just the high body count and extreme and swift plus 'professional' technique nature of it, plus the lack of obvious motivation. When million dollar deals are at stake and people are living in the gangland world, an order to take out someone's family as a form of retribution could be done quite mercilessly by someone who is a hired assassin.

Thanks. I agree there's no obvious motivation (that we know of), and there are certainly lots of unanswered questions. I'd be shocked if it turned out to be a 'professional' or gang. Seems like both overwhelmingly prefer guns. (Not that I would I would know - just going by what I've seen in the news! ) There's also no obvious motivation for a gang or professional either, so that question remains unanswered.

I agree that it's unusual for 4 people to be killed in this manner. My guess is that the "swift plus professional" nature of the crimes will turn out to be something much less sensational. I usually prefer to avoid speculating, but... I think it's more likely the perp had no special training or skills. It's at least in the realm of possibility.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

How about “ signature” as well

Yes. IMO (unless this is a professional assassination) this person is already known for knife skills, hunting skills, butchering. Probably something they’ve done since childhood, probably family and / or cultural tradition and maybe very open about that. Probably enjoys preparing, curing, smoking, and cooking cuts of meat from hunt kills or even road kill. Probably knows all about different species of animals, how to skin fur* etc, maybe has a survivalist mentality. Likely keeps trophies and has designs on big game hunting ’holidays’ or sea fishing expeditions. Likes to go camping and taking off solo for treks. May not be disliked for these traits so much as admired for being a real hardy staunch character who you’d definitely want on your team. The sort who knows how to find water in the desert and how to navigate using the stars.

*the skinned dog! what was that about?

 

[Parsnip]

I don't know why, but this case makes me think of Canadian prospectors - they probably exist on the US side of the border in the same amount, but I know of Canadians. To apply for mining on a parcel of land costs little, and I suspect everyone hopes to find oil or gold, but any colored stones in bulk bring money. So, a geologist, a gemologist, or even a self-taught gem cutter. Not rich by any means, barely making ends meet, because most never find anything.
Spending a lot of time outside, alone on his land; if he drives somewhere, these would be clubs to meet with the same adventurers, or maybe some exhibitions. Spending a lot of time outside, even in winter, is no problem, this person is unafraid of heights (a genetic trait, btw), is lean, wiry and strong. Tools used might be very different. About third shift or rather, working alone - agree, and I wonder if the person has true sensory processing disorder. Probably likes to drink. An external survivor.

This being said, I can imagine a computer engineer who likes to work at home and is an amateur chef. Some cooking equipments are really expensive (and no, they are not necessarily knives, but sharp) and hard to find. Have to be ordered specially, sometimes from abroad. He also likes to hike.

Thank you! I didn’t know anything about prospecting prior to your post.

 

[10ofRods]

There would have been a lot of blood though and that would mean that they literally found one victim motionless, didn't notice any wounds, injuries, or blood spatter (what's the chances!?), didn't freak out and yell and run to go find the other house mates (who were also already deceased) which would have been immediately obvious, didn't ring emergency services, didn't yell from the front door help help help someone help me for a neighbour, but *did* bring a bunch of their friends in the house? How long did it take these 'friends' to arrive, where did they come from!?

At first I was thinking maybe the victim had their cervical spine / neck artery cut and being already in bed was then covered over by a blanket. That means the person who couldn't rouse them would think they're fast asleep, maybe get closer and worry they're not breathing. Would you not sit on the bed and gently try to rouse them? And if that didn't work run to the very next room and try to consult with one of your housemates? Also the victims were sharing rooms so what gives? How can only one person not be roused?

Now I've gone right back to square one and I'm baffled and I don't buy it. JMO MOO

Yeah, I went to the same place as you (neck wounds, therefore serene-looking corpses with the covers tucked up and the blood dripping out below - consistent with the pictures in DM, actually).

There's no way the roommates found a victim when they went upstairs at 11-11:30 am the next morning. They were calling their housemates, hearing the phone ring and getting no answer. No one calls a roommate repeatedly and doesn't at least try the door - it was locked. This is important, because either the killer had the code from a prior visit OR they didn't bother to pull their door shut - which is what I think is more common among college students when two people share a room.

I believe the downstairs women called their (male) friend to get help in breaking down the door, but they probably already had a terrible premonition as well.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I may have missed this obvious thing, apologies if I did. Did they say the Hyundai lead came from the body cam footage? If so, did they ever post the actual photo they’re basing the and model of the car on?

No, in fact LE specifically said the car seen in the bodycam footage is NOT the white Hyundai Elantra they are seeking. If I understood correctly.

 

[debbiediablo]

No not really, just the high body count and extreme and swift plus 'professional' technique nature of it, plus the lack of obvious motivation. When million dollar deals are at stake and people are living in the gangland world, an order to take out someone's family as a form of retribution could be done quite mercilessly by someone who is a hired assassin.

A professional job would be two silenced shots to the lower back their heads or maybe a garrotte if only one target.

 

[lucidium]

I think so, if (for example) the tip broke off during course of committing the murder. JMO

Not the first time I've seen someone mention this, and I have to ask... does this actually happen? I have some decent chef's knives, and I can't imagine the tips breaking off under any scenario.

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you. I worked with many government agencies, and familiar with tracking and Common working files. Most of us have little idea of the tracking by government agencies and the data is quickly available with a stroke of the key.

Moo...I think the car was stolen. The day they announced the car, a poster found a report of a matching car stolen about 90 miles away a few days prior. I've tried to find the link. I feel FBI has every stolen vehicle with that description and the LE report for each, looking for the needle in a bag stack. I would think they have researched all vehicles within a given radius, local LE follow in up in surrounding areas, all before it was crowdsourced.
The best they can hope for are leads, descriptions, location from citizen reports.

MOO.....Ain't no way in the world the person/s in the vehicle is coming forward. The killer is to smart for that.

What's weird, though, is that surely LE wouldn't put the car driver/owner at risk? Right? A bunch of people with the same car are now treated as if they are possible criminals - and there's almost no chance that anything can be gained from this effort.

Unless of course, LE already knows or suspects who the person is and has them under watch.

 

[Which_pancake]

Kaylee's sister, Alivea Goncalvez, told Inside Edition that her sibling and Madison had started making calls to Jack, who she described to be a 'young man,' at about half past two on the morning of the brutal massacre.

'Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2.26 am and 2.44 am,' Goncalvez said.

'From 2.44 to 2.52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2.52 am.'
 Idaho murder victim's sister says mystery man called night of murder

This is what I found. It doesn't say if both their phones were used or if any messages were left.

I would like to know, though.

I would think this means they had to have spoken to J and he was able to say who called him and when. If they just had access to their family phone records, they would not have known who made the calls if they all came from K's number, and if M used her phone they would not have known this at all. MOO

 

[DoctorPsychMike]

Hate to be pedantic, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe LE have ever named the brand of the knife used.

Early on there were reports from a local store that LE were asking about one, but AFAIK that's all that has been mentioned as far as the brand is concerned.

Don't apologize. That's not pedantic, just a fact. Thanks for the post.

 

[lucidium]

Trimmed your post to just this part - this may have been said 100 times and I missed it, but it definitely seems to me that the more time goes by without someone coming forward to say “that was me in the Hyundai,” the more involved whoever was in that car appears. Just my observation of course, but to my thinking, there’s no way anyone that close to what went down isn’t following this closely in the media - surely whoever was in that car knows police wants to talk to them and has made a decision to be silent. OR, I suppose, the police description of the car is simply incorrect and the actual occupants of the vehicle they’re looking for don’t realize it’s theirs. Seems unlikely to me.

It's also possible that they have come forward already. I don't know how long it would take to corroborate their story if it came in with thousands of other tips. Would think anyone claiming to be the occupant(s) would be fast tracked for confirmation, but you never know. For that reason I think it's unlikely, but it's plausible enough not to jump to conclusions.

 

[curious jane]

A professional job would be two silenced shots to the lower back their heads or maybe a garrotte if only one target.

Cartels, and perhaps gangs as well, are not unknown to use blades, particularly when sending warnings/messages.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

We don’t know exactly where the car was parked or seen. Also, we are assuming the killer was “drenched” in blood. He may have had some blood on him, but maybe not as much as we think he/she did

agree - people laying down when attacked in upper body are not going to result in perp being covered in blood as unlike the horror movies blood runs downhill and pools like water and doesn’t spray like a fountain. Bedding would have absorbed a lot. Sorry for graphic description

 

[drmrgrl]

This was pretty interesting. The former FBI behavior analysis expert explained the difference between "instrumental violence" and "reactive violence". Reactive violence is when someone punches you in the nose, and you punch them back. It's done in the heat of the moment.

Instrumental violence is different as it's goal oriented.

Can a violent act be both? Is that possible?

 

[hopewell]

Elliot Rodger (incel killer) killed 6 people in one spree.

Elliot Rodger announced his intentions to the world and knew how it would end. He was ID'd quickly and also ended it quickly.

BTK killed two adults and two kids on his first go. Danny Rolling killed 5 students in his first go (and more over the next few days). I'm trying to stick to solo killers. We have no evidence or LE announcement that this is clearly a solo killer. Do we?

These are all serial killers, but you are correct in that we have no announcement that it was only one killer. In fact, the chief - perhaps in a slip - said "we would like to talk to these people" in the car, or something to that effect. So I should perhaps modify my assertion to "if these killings were perpetrated by one killer, it was almost certainly a serial killer".

We all likely remember the various mass killings at clubs, bars, workplaces, etc.

The killings in this case aren't similar to those in terms of profile.

I don't know where you're finding your "reputable profilers," and I certainly do not rule out (and seriously fear) a serial killer. But there are other possibilities and all must be explored. A reputable profiler, IMO, doesn't narrow down too quickly.

I'm certainly not trying to box myself into an immovable opinion, and I am certainly open to alternatives, but the ones I stated in my earlier post that these killings likely aren't, I still contend. Indeed, with what we know thus far, it is more likely that a serial killer committed this type of crime than an aggrieved incel, ticked off ex-boyfriend, or some random kid who graphically poses with Daddy's deer kills.

What do you mean by scope? This was not over a larger area, as some killings are (sometimes up to three separate locales in revenge kills or incel killings, etc). So I don't know what you mean by scope. These are all young people who are college students (a narrow group, not a wide group).

And by magnitude, you are probably referencing the number killed at one time. Yes, it's a big number, but 3 other students were killed the same night in Virginia. Balaclan, Borderline, Columbine, Ulvade, are all greater in magnitude, IMO. Sandy Hook. A person killing lots of other people.

The scope as in the sweeping impact.

The magnitude as in the monstrosity.

 

[human]

Ere is a list of states and their rules for registering vehicles. There is info for every state but South Carolina.

So maybe the car is from there. Who knows

Vehicle Registration Laws by State - FindLaw

Motor vehicle registration laws are decided by each state. For this reason, the rules for when and how to register vehicles can vary widely from state to state. Below, you'll find a list of vehicle registration laws by state, including how to register a vehicle, how much you will need to pay in...

www.findlaw.com

 

[drmrgrl]

The surviving students did not notice that no one was around. You can smell blood. It has a heavy, cloying rust iron odor. The students bled out, there would have been blood everywhere. The house would br filled with the stench.So they call friends over? Bizzare.

If bedroom doors were closed, the stench may not have yet emanated thru out the house