ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 28

[GhostGhost]

Im no expert but from what I read separating 2 dna samples from each other is difficult and extremely time consuming. Would a usable dna profile be done by now?

To add to your point:

2nd person stabbed has two DNA mixtures
3rd person stabbed has theee DNA mixtures
4th person stabbed has four DNA mixtures.

And that’s at a minimum.

You could have a dirty knife that already had some DNA on it.

Good point.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The 6 of them came home from various activities throughout town. They came home to go to bed, IMO. The downstairs women may or may not have come home together - or merely at around the same time (1 am).

The four victims come home later, around 2:30 am IIRC, but not with the intent to party - the intent was to go to bed.

While this house was a "party house," it appears they specialized in "pre-Party" activities (before games or before bigger parties at frat and sorority houses). I'm not saying that they didn't have large parties that go all evening, just typing what I remember from a local article (in the media thread).

Further, almost no one starts to drink more/party at 2-3 am. That's time to wind down, rehydrate, and rest.

K and M were together all evening and went up to bed together, as friends do. X and E were together most of the evening, and then went to bed, as a couple does. The two women downstairs may have gone out together - not sure we know - but they slept in separate rooms, as they usually did.

Everyone behaved normally, IMO.

Party peoples from around the globe would disagree with this statement!

For many serious socializers, the Saturday-Sunday 'after party' begins at someone's home when the clubs close any time from 2am to 5am. If you're in high spirits, everyone nice from the club gets given the address and invited along too. This usually involves continuing to party, dance, mingle until 'whenever' and often by the Sunday lunch time / afternoon has wound down to a chill out session. By late afternoon everyone's like OKAY gotta go home have a nice clean bathe, sleeeeep, and try get my head straight for tomo (Monday) morning. This is why living next to party peoples houses can send non party peoples into a deranged state of mind. I have been on both sides of this scenario.

 

[isabella88]

They didn't post one last Sunday either. Maybe their web and clerical people have Sundays off?

Possible. Just really hoping for more info soon. I've gone through so many theories in my head and at this point, I feel like I'm stuck. Worries me that so many people are leaving for the holidays. MOO

 

[Walela]

If I had to guess, it would be before the surviving roommates came home. That house had to sit empty for hours. That could have given him time to get aquainted with Murphy, and learn the lay of the land. That house is a bit like a labyrinth.

Just to be clear, I personally think it's most likely the perp was in that dark backyard, watching and waiting until he saw the lights go out in the bedrooms.

I agree with you about the backyard. I was just thinking if he was just some random killer already in the house, he most likely would have killed the first two people that came home.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think the answer is yes (especially if we're speaking of organized crime). My view is that one of the four was the intended victim, perhaps arising out of a situation where some of the housemates gave support to their roomie, when she encountered difficulties with someone else (an ex, an ex-roommate, an ex-friend, an unwanted admirer, etc).

They just didn't know that this person or persons could be so vengeful/filled with hate

So if this were the case, in your opinion, would the killer have lots of internalized rage/hate that may have shown previously to family/friends? Would it be likely that there is a connection, however tennuous, that could be made from the killer to each of the 3 or 4 perhaps? I hope this is the case because it would IMO give LE more of a foothold. (edited to change a word for clarity)

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think it's very possible that the killer entered while the house was empty and laid in wait. There were 2 empty bedrooms, closets, a furnace room, and even an attic to hide in. I don't think there was any forcing them to make phone calls, since the coroner said they were "likely asleep when attacked."

JMHO

For that matter, just throwing it out there, but what if he was phrogging? Adds a whole new dimension of creep factor to it.

MOO

 

[warbuckle]

OK... what are you implying then? For arguments sake let's say the *dynamics* pointed toward some *discord* between the survivors and the victims...and that's a HUGE STRETCH. So please elaborate where you're going with this. Thanks

This is a discussion thread so I’m allowed to discuss ideas regarding the investigation. There are so many possibles but one to satisfy you might be to see if any of the other roommates were distancing themselves from any of the other ones due to maybe a new acquaintance in one of their lives. I’m looking at what we know with an open mind and trying to think of things that might be helpful since the investigation doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Understanding relationships is very important to an investigation, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[GhostGhost]

So I think they've nothing except the white car passing a Ring camera.

I suspect they have that white Elantra parked, too.

Thus, their reaction.

 

[10ofRods]

So why do you discount closets and empty bedrooms as hiding places? I would like to see the inside of the furnace room, and attic as well. I'm not saying I think it was likely, but I also wouldn't say "no way."

There were, apparently, two empty bedrooms (K's prior bedroom and the one where the roommate moved out on the second floor.) I would guess that the dog was found in one of those rooms.

A person could have hidden in one of those rooms. If the dog was put up in one of those rooms for the night, then it would likely be the other one. I'm sure LE is treating it as a possibility.

I think it's more likely that the killer waited outside, but that's just a hunch. It was chilly that night, though. Closet in one of the two unused bedrooms might provide a snug spot to hide. Killer may have had a Plan B (if discovered) but was hoping for the "sleep" scenario.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

This is a discussion thread so I’m allowed to discuss ideas regarding the investigation. There are so many possibles but one to satisfy you might be to see if any of the other roommates were distancing themselves from any of the other ones due to maybe a new acquaintance in one of their lives. I’m looking at what we know with an open mind and trying to think of things that might be helpful since the investigation doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Understanding relationships is very important to an investigation, wouldn’t you agree?

A central part.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IMO…. No way the killer was hiding in the house prior to the murders. The only rooms (other than bedrooms and bathrooms) that had doors were tiny closets and a crowded furnace room.
The attic? How would you get out of there without a prepositioned ladder and not make a ton of noise?..

Sorry if I missed this, but do we know that the attic didn't have a built-in ladder? Mine does.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

There were, apparently, two empty bedrooms (K's prior bedroom and the one where the roommate moved out on the second floor.) I would guess that the dog was found in one of those rooms.

A person could have hidden in one of those rooms. If the dog was put up in one of those rooms for the night, then it would likely be the other one. I'm sure LE is treating it as a possibility.

I think it's more likely that the killer waited outside, but that's just a hunch. It was chilly that night, though. Closet in one of the two unused bedrooms might provide a snug spot to hide. Killer may have had a Plan B (if discovered) but was hoping for the "sleep" scenario.

Both are highly conceivable.

 

[BondGirl007]

tension between outsiders (college kids) and townsfolk. Often phrased as a class difference, but could have other implications.

Gown refers to Graduation Gown btw.

 

[10ofRods]

Asking for info on the white car shows desperation.
They probably knew about that car from very early, like the first week.

They may not have analysed every single bit of DNA but all the obvious stuff like touch DNA on the victims, doorknobs, doors, windows, lightswitches has been analysed.
Likewise all the blood evidence.

If the perp wore gloves, didn't cut himself, didn't struggle with any of the victims, and didnt rape or sexually assault anyone, then where's the DNA coming from!?
It's possible a hair follicle fell from his head but that's it.

So I think they've nothing except the white car passing a Ring camera.

Here's what I think.

They carefully collected tons of forensic evidence from all over the house, each designated as a different time phase in the crime. They found car carpet fibers on the stairs and on the bedroom floor (using many different vacuum bags and carefully labeling, taking over 4000 pictures of where they gathered this evidence).

They knew a Hyundai Elantra had passed by a Ring cam. So they went into the database of carpet fibers and lo and behold! The fibers on the feet of the alleged killer are from a Hyundai Elantra - but only from 2011-2013.

That Elantra is hidden someplace, IMO. Probably at a remote location, perhaps still with the killer. His family knows he has this car, but is silent (and LE knows who they are, too and are waiting to see if they are going to budge and give up where the car/person driving car might be).

I don't think that Hyundai is still in Idaho, myself. Nor is the killer. But if they find that Hyundai, they will find a person who is definitely worth interrogating.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

So why do you discount closets and empty bedrooms as hiding places? I would like to see the inside of the furnace room, and attic as well. I'm not saying I think it was likely, but I also wouldn't say "no way."

I tend to think he wasn’t inside when they returned home. Or when the 2 surviving roomies returned.
Mainly because they weren’t harmed, and im not sure the closets even have doors. They didn’t appear to in Zillow. Perhaps someone added some. Idk. I have thought he could’ve been hanging out on that long balcony on the third floor, sitting in a dark spot until all noise subsided. All Moo

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Sorry if I missed this, but do we know that the attic didn't have a built-in ladder? Mine does.

Great point…especially if none of the kids renting were even aware of its presence. It’s not as if students make it a habit of looking around in or inspecting the attic of their rental home. I’ll bet there is a ladder.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

There were, apparently, two empty bedrooms (K's prior bedroom and the one where the roommate moved out on the second floor.) I would guess that the dog was found in one of those rooms.

A person could have hidden in one of those rooms. If the dog was put up in one of those rooms for the night, then it would likely be the other one. I'm sure LE is treating it as a possibility.

I think it's more likely that the killer waited outside, but that's just a hunch. It was chilly that night, though. Closet in one of the two unused bedrooms might provide a snug spot to hide. Killer may have had a Plan B (if discovered) but was hoping for the "sleep" scenario.

I suspect outside, too, for a number of reasons, but it all comes down to easier escape/fear of being trapped, and that is jmo. for all I know, this killer loved being in their house and was confident enough to do so with a couple of Plan B scenarios.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

For that matter, just throwing it out there, but what if he was phrogging? Adds a whole new dimension of creep factor to it.

MOO

What's phrogging please?

Edit: I have searched this term. Wow, never heard of it. A very unlikely home to be phrogging in I should imagine and if he was simply an unofficial guests then the two survivors would have told all by now.

 

[dotr]

 

[CSIDreamer]

From the sheer professionalism of it all.
In & out, got the job done quickly and swiftly, with no noise, no evidence no trace.

A random psycho wouldn't manage that.

Where are you reading no evidence, no trace, and no noise?