ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 31

[lucidium]

No threat to the community is really what they walked backed. They never should have said that to begin with, but it has become almost standard police speak now days.

I do not agree that MPD walked that back. What MPD did is change the language to be more nuanced because people were misunderstanding the original. They never claimed with certainty that the perp is not a threat to the public, because that is obviously unknowable. Early and current official statements are in agreement: (1) MPD believes the murders were targeted (2) they do not believe any others will be targeted. Their rationale is [appropriately, imo] not public.

Below is what the MPD FAQ says today. The second sentence ('However') contrasts the first, i.e. MPD does not believe there is a serious threat to the general public. No walk back.

---

Is the public in danger?
Anytime there is a crime against a person, there is a potential danger to the general public. However, detectives believe these murders were targeted. As always, stay vigilant and look out for one another.

 

[Emerald1328]

If the driver of that particular white Hyundai is the killer than you can bet with 100 % certainty he’s been getting an kick out of every new story, news article, and even message board dedicated to this crime. Killers love to follow their own crimes very closely and they get a thrill the more it’s talked about.

Also if the killer or killers are the one in that particular white Hyundai they won’t be coming forward voluntarily.

Considering it has been 8 or 9 days since the bulletin about a white Hyundai near the crime scene has been released asking this person or person to come forward and they haven’t. If that doesn’t cause you to see that as suspicious than what will??

And IMO, the killer is getting a kick out of the families’ pain, especially the Goncalves family as they have been so vocal. This was not a fight that got out of hand or a heat of the moment type thing. IMO, this person feels they “won” something by killing the four, and is relishing in the pain he caused.

 

[AmishInvestigator]

In my opinion-
when MPD said it was an "targeted' attack, what was in this particular house/individuals that would make them a target- was it drugs? was it blackmail- did one of the victims have some information which threatened someone- was it a jealous ex? was it revenge?
However its what happened after which makes this statement by the MPD even more interesting- they walked back on parts of the statement- In my opinion again, their initial statement must have been too close to the truth and it had riled up someone and so they (may have been even asked)walked back on it.

Feels like a scenario where there was no obvious robbery as a motive would lead LE to believe they were targeted. jmo

 

[Twistinginthewind]

University of Idaho victim's mother fears case could go unsolved: 'Sleepless nights'

 

[OldCop]

Did they get home, let the dog out, put the dog in K’s room because it’s the obvious place he’d sleep and feel most comfortable and crawled into bed together as close girlfriends do after drinking.

This made me think of something I’d not seen discussed before. What if when they let Murphy out, he alerted to someone up on the hill behind the house? Did he run towards this person or bark? I don’t know how well trained he is. Would he come when called?
Did M and/or K think he was probably just chasing a squirrel or raccoon, but try to call J just to reassure themselves?

 

[lucidium]

We don't really know. LE has indicated that there was something at the scene that led them to believe this was targeted. We have no idea what that is. But there clearly is something. It has become common for LE nationwide to say there is no threat to the community if they believe the attack was directed. Meaning the perp isn't randomly picking victims. While I understand that concept, I think it is a mistake and misleading. Anyone capable of murder is a threat. If they are corned or believe another person suspects them, they are capable of violence.

I suspect LE trusts their communities to understand that 'targeted' / 'we don't believe there is an ongoing threat to the community at this time' does not imply certainty. What it actually means is (1) LE has reason to believe the perp sought out the victims, and (2) LE believes the perp will not seek out additional victims.

Of course, with any unknown murderer, there's always some possibility that they will strike again. That really should go without saying, which is why we shouldn't read LE statements as implying otherwise.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Kaylee Goncalves’ father says he’s being told to ‘shut up’ about Idaho murders - live

 

[girlrx]

K's dad is upset about clearing "guy at food truck" a week into the investigation at a press conference, and then not telling him his alibi. Since the events are related to a major university, many believe LE was pressured by University and high powered people in the community to clear HG. I see no reason to publicly clear people and say they are not related.

Well, the flip side is that sm and random people were harassing his family. If i was innocent , I wouldn't want to be in fear for my family and myself.

 

[EBW321]

This made me think of something I’d not seen discussed before. What if when they let Murphy out, he alerted to someone up on the hill behind the house? Did he run towards this person or bark? I don’t know how well trained he is. Would he come when called?
Did M and/or K think he was probably just chasing a squirrel or raccoon, but try to call J just to reassure themselves?

I’ve thought the same thing multiple times. Even made a post about it.

If dog ran off or got out who would they call? The other owner….

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Night, no witnesses, no one stating he saw the assailant/assailants, and potential people in the know keeping silent - could be a lot of time. Then it bodes down to “good police work”, but it is not equal to “fast” police work.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

Kaylee Goncalves’ father says he’s being told to ‘shut up’ about Idaho murders - live

I hope his lawyer is giving him appropriate guidance. I’d hate to see something the family released but shouldn’t have result in not being able to get a conviction later.

 

[Arkay]

I think- and this is only my opinion, the people who loose the most from catching the perp is the University of Idaho.
Its a well known fact that is small towns, the LE are obliged to the big businesses/institutions in the town- as these organizations are their benefactors. This crime when unraveled may put the U of I in a bad light and as a result we may never find the perp if the Uni has been implicated in some way.

I respect that you have your opinion.

IMO I don't see the connection, though.

I would think that conversely, it would be to the University's gain if the killer is caught and imprisoned.

Right now there must be many high school seniors who are rethinking whether they wish to attend the U of I while these killings remain unsolved. Many parents or guardians who may be hesitating in allowing their children to go there, as well.

It's true that the U of I is likely the largest employer in that small town, but the students who were murdered were legal adults who chose to live OFF campus. What happens OFF campus to adults is not, IMO, the fault or responsibility of the Uni as it would be if something happened ON campus.

The only way I could imagine the Uni at fault or in a bad light is if the killer is a professor or other employee of the university who either did not have a background check, successfully passed a background check, or exhibited troublesome signs but remained employed there. Or a fellow student who exhibited a tendency to violence and was not expelled.

Jmo

 

[SteveP]

K's dad is upset about clearing "guy at food truck" a week into the investigation at a press conference, and then not telling him his alibi. Since the events are related to a major university, many believe LE was pressured by University and high powered people in the community to clear HG. I see no reason to publicly clear people and say they are not related.

Again, one more time, NO ONE has been cleared by LE. In their daily briefings, which are issued regularly, and amended as needed, they state...

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the following are involved in this crime: • Two surviving roommates, • Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video, • Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th, • The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th, • Any individual at the residence when 911 was called, or • The individual on the lease who moved out of the residence before the school year started and was not present at the time of the incident.

LE have stated that those believed not involved may be re-interviewed, and have since stated that some have been, though we do not know who or how many. And finally, my heart truly goes out to Mr Goncalves, but Moscow PD is not going to tell him what the food truck guy's alibi is, nor should they, nor would any other LE agency. What his alibi is does not matter. What matters is that he had one that LE, for at least the time being, are accepting. And finally, I think the thought that LE, local OR especially FBI, would clear a potential suspect, merely to keep the local university happy, is ridiculous.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

.

From your link:

The mother of one of four Idaho college students killed last month said Tuesday that authorities didn’t notify her before they asked the public for information about a white sedan, a car police have described as a potentially critical clue.
A lawyer for Goncalves, Shanon Gray, faulted Moscow police..
The families "should be prepared to be able to answer any questions about those things,” Gray said.

A police spokesman forwarded an email including the release that was sent to Gray at 2:24 p.m. Dec. 7. The spokesman, Robbie Johnson, said the email was an example of a message aimed at keeping the Goncalves family informed.

Goncalves also criticized Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt..
She said Mabbutt asked her daughter: "Are you sure you want to know this? And my daughter, thinking that she did for whatever reason, said yes."
“[she] gave details to the families about the investigation and about the crime scene and things like that" he said.
Such details shouldn't have been given to the teenager, he said, adding that they probably shouldn't have been given to her parents, either.

However, the parents of the daughter allowed her to stay. I don’t know the coroner at all, but I hope they work according to general rules and regulations.

 

[kathym1950]

I doubt the killer lives in a dorm, fraternity house, or sorority house. In these environments, a person carrying around a large knife would be well-known. People involved in Greek Life are regular people, just like those who choose not to participate. At many schools, participants in Greek Life actually have higher graduation rates than other students. These organizations are not filled with homicidal rapists covering up nefarious deeds. Bad incidents happen, but these are generally mishandled accidents or sexual assaults, not violent murders. No fraternity is going to protect a homicidal brother who has killed another brother.

Whoever committed this crime possessed the weapon well in advance and likely fantasized about using it. This is either someone who lives alone, or lives in a larger space where a large knife would not be known to housemates/roommates. It could be a student living off campus, but I lean to someone older with a more peripheral connection to the university.

That's why I keep coming back to maintenance on the house.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 30

I agree with your observation. The relationship of the driver's side window and mirror are also not the same as an Elantra. It isn't an Elantra... I think the wheelbase of the white sedan in the video is that of a car larger than an Elantra. Also, the wheels/tires look proportionally small...

www.websleuths.com

If he was out and about, one of the roommates could have locked him in the spare bedroom. When I've called 911 in the past, they usually ask about dogs and then ask if we can meet emergency services outside, or lock the dogs up or out.

But that really is just a guess.

Guesses…have solved a LOT of crimes and mysteries over the years. Keep throwing fuel on the fire and cast the net WIDE and FAR. That’s how you catch a killer.

 

[layer]

Kaylee Goncalves’ father says he’s being told to ‘shut up’ about Idaho murders - live

MSN version:

Idaho murders - update: Kaylee Goncalves’ father says he’s being told to ‘shut up’ about college killings

 

[diggndeeperstill]

From your link:

The mother of one of four Idaho college students killed last month said Tuesday that authorities didn’t notify her before they asked the public for information about a white sedan, a car police have described as a potentially critical clue.
A lawyer for Goncalves, Shanon Gray, faulted Moscow police..
The families "should be prepared to be able to answer any questions about those things,” Gray said.

A police spokesman forwarded an email including the release that was sent to Gray at 2:24 p.m. Dec. 7. The spokesman, Robbie Johnson, said the email was an example of a message aimed at keeping the Goncalves family informed.

Goncalves also criticized Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt..
She said Mabbutt asked her daughter: "Are you sure you want to know this? And my daughter, thinking that she did for whatever reason, said yes."
“[she] gave details to the families about the investigation and about the crime scene and things like that" he said.
Such details shouldn't have been given to the teenager, he said, adding that they probably shouldn't have been given to her parents, either.

It’s kind of interesting they weren’t asked or notified about the car first to me. It is actually insightful to me. They could have asked the family if THEY KNEW ANYONE that drove this vehicle. But, the did not. I’m not saying that was the right or wrong thing to do, I just think it could tell us that they knew they were looking for someone unknown to the family.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

View attachment 387721

MPD Press Log 12/14/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Thanks for awareness to this site. Your highlighted post is interesting, but the entire report is also quite humbling.

 

[fridaybaker]

K's dad is upset about clearing "guy at food truck" a week into the investigation at a press conference, and then not telling him his alibi. Since the events are related to a major university, many believe LE was pressured by University and high powered people in the community to clear HG. I see no reason to publicly clear people and say they are not related.

On the Sunday after the crime, 11/20, during the press conference, LE stated both:
"We do not believe the following individuals are involved in this crime." And:
"The community "must be prepared for a lengthy investigation."

LE was getting out information as early on as possible. Information that they thought the public should and would want to know. It was a statement of fact -that they didn't believe the following individuals were involved. It was their best estimate of the situation at the time, very, very early in the investigation of a complex, quadruple murder.

Why some took this to mean that those individuals had been "cleared", I don't know. LE didn't use that verbiage. I didn't take it to mean that "without a doubt", these individuals were not involved, but simply, at this stage in the investigation, that's what the police were thinking. After all, they certainly could have said "These individuals are not involved in this crime." Or, "These individuals have been cleared." They did not.

I also would note that few people, seemingly, paid attention to the other statement that "The community " must be prepared for a lengthy investigation." Almost immediately media, commenters on social media, etc. began framing LE as behind the ball, the investigation as slow and inefficient, even bumbling, etc. I believe the reason BAU is on the case, as is the FBI, is that it is, indeed, a very complex investigation and one that will necessarily be "lengthy".

There are FOUR victims, of both sexes. The crime scene is a place that is likely literally covered from top to bottom in hundreds of people's DNA, from blood, vomit, and other, ahem, bodily fluids. It was a -six bedroom- rental in a college town. It was a party house. I can't even begin to imagine the DNA that must be plastered all over it from years of parties. Each of the victims, as college students, likely has had contact with an incredibly array of other people and has to be painstakingly vetted as to their social contacts, their activities in and around the time of the murders. Including social media. Just one of them alone has 70K followers on a social media platform. Then there is the transient nature of college life.

I'm am often highly critical of LE, but in this case, I just don't see anything that tells me that they're not doing a good job. So many here get upset at criticism of family members taking bits of information to the media and their constant criticism of LE, but don't let up on the criticism of LE. I'm in support of them in this situation. And I'm glad I'm not in their shoes. What a thankless job.