ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 31

[IdahoSteelDream]

Interesting thought! If it is indeed a fraternity brother there is no doubt that they have already identified possible suspects and are closing in on them. It's just so hard in this case to make a solid theory because there are so many moving parts.
I will say, if it turns out to be a young (college aged) first time killer, there is no doubt in my mind that he/she/their behaviors will only become more violent and brazen. But how much more violent and brazen could they get? Now that's a terrifying thought! MOO

I agree that it stems from Sigma Chi.

 

[lucidium]

The only problem with this is that Moscow PD has recanted, pulled back, reworded far to many things to be a reliable source.

When exactly? I promise you won't find 'many things' that were recanted, pulled back, or reworded by MPD. People do like to say MPD has done those things - seems to me that they are mistaking what other people say as having come from MPD.

I can think of only one instance where MPD contradicted themselves - the badly written 'clarification' statements in response to the prosecutor's interview. I don't know what went wrong there. Maybe they felt the need to put a statement out quickly and the person who usually writes the statements was off that day? I think MPD deserves a pass - those statements were only necessary because the prosecutor gave an interview outside approved communication channels.

 

[rsd1200]

What throws it off for me is that if he has a gun, why wasn’t it used in the murders?

A knife is harder to trace. No shell casings were accidentally left behind, no noise, and no ability to trace a bullet left in the victim, back to a specific type of firearm. The assailant could still very well have and be willing to use a firearm if cornered. jm2

 

[girlrx]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

This may be a stupid question but i see this statement a lot from people. Should they have gotten the video from all of the businesses early before they knew what they were looking for? What would the boundaries of obtaining the videos. Do they need a warrant to obtain some of these videos. I am just trying to understand what was within the police's legal rights. I hope this makes sense, lol.

 

[Aquarian]

IMO something happened in that house that screamed freak show, not your average quadruple homicide. ICBW, way wrong, but I also could be way right. I do know you don't call the BAU to do the donut runs, and if all local LE needed was tech expertise, no reason to bring in two BAU teams IMO. Regular FBI at your service.

Also IMO the top profilers are starting to leak a bit that it *could be* a serial killer. IMO I think they've suspected something twisted from the start or soon after, but LE is not going to run screaming from house, hands waving in the air, OMG!! serial killer alert!!!

That's not how that would happen IMO. Instead, they're going to investigate, keep it under wraps, and call in the FBI BAU. And then if that is the case, they'll leak it slowly and acclimate the public.

IMO something twisted happened in that house. That is only my opinion. I also think it was a pretty well planned and organized situation. I also think it was not random, not happenstance, not oh what they heck, these four will do. This was planned imo and he went to kill four people in a violent, up close and personal way, because that's who he is IMO and IMO he is reveling in his 'success'. Really has a Danny Rolling feel about it imo.

Here's what those people do, in their own words.

Behavioral Analysts | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Making sense of the incomprehensible. That’s the specialty of the eight agents of the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit-2, or BAU-2.

www.fbi.gov

Quoting:

Mark A Hilts: The type of cases we get involved in, the serial murder cases, the unusual, the bizarre cases, are the type of cases that most people, the average individual struggles to understand themselves. Why would somebody kill 10 different people over a year’s time period? What kind of person would chop somebody up or would carve something into a victim or would do some other bondage or other type activity? So it’s something that as normal human beings we struggle with, we don’t understand.

Just taking Mr G’s comment about gouging, if that’s in fact true- would that alone be enough for that BAU to get involved in your view?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Oh I'm glad you got my post, except I'm mystified what exactly "no forced entry" means. Does that mean like nothing broken, or a door was not locked, or a person was invited there?

Presumably it means LE did not find any physical evidence/sign that the house was forcibly broken into to enter it from the outside, e.g., exterior door locks/windows were not tampered with or broken.

"Forced entry: To enter the property of another with force and against the property owner’s wishes and authorization."

Definition of FORCED ENTRY • Law Dictionary • TheLaw.com

 

[newredtabby]

The only problem with this is that Moscow PD has recanted, pulled back, reworded far to many things to be a reliable source.

I don't think that is fair to LE. They have updated public information as the investigation has progressed. Have statements changed? Of course. It's an ongoing investigation. That is bound to happen in any investigation of this magnitude.

 

[Centaurus]

When exactly? I promise you won't find 'many things' that were recanted, pulled back, or reworded by MPD. People do like to say MPD has done those things - seems to me that they are mistaking what other people say as having come from MPD.

I can think of only one instance where MPD contradicted themselves - the badly written 'clarification' statements in response to the prosecutor's interview. I don't know what went wrong there. Maybe they felt the need to put a statement out quickly and the person who usually writes the statements was off that day? I think MPD deserves a pass - those statements were only necessary because the prosecutor gave an interview outside approved communication channels.

The only major thing I can think of is, MPD day one said "targeted attack" and "no threat to the community." They walked that back a few days later.

ETA: at least the second part of that statement

 

[SuziQ]

In the Rhoden massacre, redacted autopsies were released, I think it was due to media taking them to court.

I can't remember how long that took. Iirc, it took a long time. Imo.

 

[mendicant]

When exactly? I promise you won't find 'many things' that were recanted, pulled back, or reworded by MPD. People do like to say MPD has done those things - seems to me that they are mistaking what other people say as having come from MPD.

I can think of only one instance where MPD contradicted themselves - the badly written 'clarification' statements in response to the prosecutor's interview. I don't know what went wrong there. Maybe they felt the need to put a statement out quickly and the person who usually writes the statements was off that day? I think MPD deserves a pass - those statements were only necessary because the prosecutor gave an interview outside approved communication channels.

Walking back the 'no threat to the community' claim was huge, and has colored perception re: investgative handling of this case ever since. A huge unforced error early on.

 

[PrairieWind]

This would drive me nuts. You have to trust but it’s hard to trust because of how things are unfolding right now. I mean these store vids should have been secured by now. Moscow doesn’t have many businesses.

Just sad.

Moscow doesn't have many businesses? How can LE get every single vid in town?

 

[Phryne Fisher]

Here we are- getting to nearly 1 month post murders with very little idea of who did it, how they did it and why.
I recently watched ' The Vatican Girl" on netflix and its makes me wonder, after following true crime for a while- who has the most to loose if they find the killer?
I think- and this is only my opinion, the people who loose the most from catching the perp is the University of Idaho.
Its a well known fact that is small towns, the LE are obliged to the big businesses/institutions in the town- as these organizations are their benefactors. This crime when unraveled may put the U of I in a bad light and as a result we may never find the perp if the Uni has been implicated in some way.
The fact that LE were trying to establish the timeline of E and X makes me wonder again about the frat party they attended and the fact that we have nobody talking about anything- usually I would have expected someone to come forward and say " hey I ran into E & X at the party and they were so happy etc.." but we have complete silence. This is something we cannot overlook. In this present day, the fact that no one has seen anything makes me feel that its not that no one saw anything, but no one wants to talk.
The fact that K's family were the only ones speaking out for more information from LE, makes me wonder-why the families of the other 3 children have not been as vocal.

Could it be that the intended victim was not K but one of the other 3.

Do the families of the other 3 victims understand the reasoning behind the crime and probably even know who may have done it and that is why they are patiently waiting for LE to gather the evidence for an arrest.

Perhaps sadly K was just collateral damage.

Was there some unmentionable activities going on amongst the students- something that the U of I were aware of and did nothing about?

Whoever did this had a lot of anger towards one or more of the victims and this is not something that has happened overtime. It will be good to check and see which one of their friends have deleted their social media accounts recently. It would be good to look at the fraternity FB page as well.

 

[Aquarian]

Would it be possible that the girls went to different bedrooms at first. K started drunk dialing Ex but he did not answer after several tries she goes over to M room to see if they could call from Ms phone. They start talking and pass out together. The dog is still in Ks room and the girls are in Ms room.

This is kind of my version

 

[BuySellTrade]

I think you could be onto something and like you I’ve thought about the calls to J from M&K many times and thought of all types of reasons to make those calls make sense.

MOO/IMO - I think they did possibly get spooked by something… maybe they arrived home and heard something or possibly even saw a dark figure outside the house….

Based off of the way K’s family describes she a J’s relationship, they were still very close although being broken up. It’s possible it wasn’t uncommon J would show up at the house after a night out without needing to call. Family says they were together 4 or 5 years. They shared a dog together… good terms…

Maybe she and M heard or saw something assumed it was him… K calls once to


The phone calls to J from M and K still puzzle me so much as well.

IMO- K’s family says they dated I think 4 plus years. They were on very good terms, very close, shared a dog together. I feel the same way you do about it likely just being her calling him after getting home from the bar because it was normal for her to do that after a night of drinking and maybe when he didn’t answer , M called him because let’s be honest…. When you are a young woman drinking all night and you call your longterm ex bf and he doesn’t answer… you could very easily ask your bestie to call and see if he’s just avoiding you or if he’s actually asleep. (Female perspective here… )

MOO- I believe it’s also possible after arriving home from the bar, K and M go inside and do the obvious thing any pet owner would do after being gone all night at a bar… they let the dog out to use the bathroom. I mean it makes sense.

It is believed the house was watched and targeted. That perp most likely entered via back door and or window… murders take place between 3:00-4:00. Girls are known to be home and awake from 2:00-2:52 am.. Id bet he was already there watching either from woods or in car from side street.

Could this explain those calls? I think so.

Again MOO - I think it’s possible while letting the dog out , either the dog or the girls got spooked by something. Possibly they thought they saw something move in the woods behind the house. Maybe something just felt off… Police do say house was targeted..

Did they get momentarily spooked, but didn’t overthink it because they had been drinking? And that’s why they called J.. their close friend and bf? Would help explain those calls.. no answer and intoxicated, don’t overthink it and go to bed together either out of slight fear or because it was normal for them… moo- that’s also pretty common for girl best friends in college after a night of drinking. IMO

Or.. again Moo.

Did they get home, let the dog out, put the dog in K’s room because it’s the obvious place he’d sleep and feel most comfortable and crawled into bed together as close girlfriends do after drinking.

Once settled is it possible they thought they heard someone attempting to get into the door downstairs? Assumed it might be J stopping by after going out… wouldn’t be that unusual based off of how family describes their relationship. K calls first and no answer then M and no answer. They brush it off and pass out. Not uncommon to hear things in a house with that many people.

We all know decision making is impaired, fear is decreased while intoxicated.
So it’s possible.

MOO… it makes sense that the calls could have simply been from an eerie feeling or something they heard. Obvious person to call is J. I do not believe they thought they were in danger though.

I believe they’d have texted or called more than one person if so.

Which is why I believe the only logical reasons to call J that many times is:

- drunk dialing
- heard or saw something and assumed it could be him, or ask what to do… after no answer brushed it off and passed out.
- do not believe girls felt like they were in any actual danger.
- do believe the calls are relevant in some way to the investigation.

For the record…. I do not believe K’s ex boyfriend J had anything to do with this.

Could K & M overhear the confrontation between E and X and the killer and call J to intercede, not realizing the degree of depravity in process?

Tend to think some connection to the Greek culture will be revealed before the crime is solved.

 

[chlban]

Good point about FBI BAU.
Does anyone know if it's unusual for them to be assigned to a case like this?
Like did they work on Delphi murders also? Their hp.

I don't hink it's unusual at all. This is a small town and the local police are not accustomed to dealing with mass murder. At least according to shows like Criminal Minds and FBI Most Wanted, they are often called in to small towns. Yes, I realize they are TV shows and Fiction, but I don't think they would make up something that basic. If I recall correctly, the FBI was briefly present for the JonBenet Ramsey case, but the Boulder police rejected their help.

 

[Mad Hettie]

Not sure if 100 pc fact, but the light on the side of the apartment building right next to the house was apparently found to not have been working around the time of the incident , which rendered the side lane between the apartment and the house that leads to the car park at the back and the trees lining the back of the house was apparently in pitch dark that night, very useful to wait right next to if thats what happened. Lucky coincidence re the light ?

Since the back of the house is just a cul de sac , looks like the only approach to the house is from the front side though even if circling over to the sides or back for eventual entry , if that makes sense ? walking up the stairs that lead to the house from taylor avenue (parking in a dark spot somewhere nearby )seem the likeliest chosen route then as a car pulling up to the cul de sac zone would be too risky ? Do my conclusions seem right ?

When I visited families in high crime areas, they almost always reported difficulties keeping outside lights in repair. Light bulbs would go missing or be bashed in, wires cut, electric boxes broken. It’s a common preparation tactic.

 

[highfastflyer]

UPDATE AT 10:09 A.M.: Man shot and killed in Pullman by SWAT team following standoff; WSP official says no connection to Moscow murders is apparent

UPDATE AT 10:09 A.M.:

dnews.com

another article - they do not explicitly say related or not but the facts seem to point to unrelated

”…The incident began when the man reportedly threatened to kill his roommates at their apartment on the 1000 block of Latah Street. Pullman police were called to the scene at 8:37 p.m. Wednesday for a "weapon offense," according to the news release.

The roommates were evacuated from the apartment…”

 

[Cora]

Parents of murdered Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves beg businesses to comb through footage after gas station attendant finds clip of white Hyundai on night of the killings - as mother says killer was 'methodical'​

Parents of murdered Idaho student beg business to comb through footage

Kristi and Steven Goncalves worry they could lose vital evidence as their daughter's death surpasses the one-month mark.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[juliasalmons]

MPD Press Log 12/14/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[PrairieWind]

The only major thing I can think of is, MPD day one said "targeted attack" and "no threat to the community." They walked that back a few days later.

ETA: at least the second part of that statement

No threat to the community is really what they walked backed. They never should have said that to begin with, but it has become almost standard police speak now days.