ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 31

[OrangeRhyme]

JMO but I think he'd probably been in that specific house on more than one occasion. not unfamiliar territory, and even a familiar smell to any dog that may or may not have been present. editing to be clear: I still think it was a peripheral 'acquaintance', not a friend or ex or anything of the sort. JMO but I think this person is pretty twisted and obsessed and stalked awhile. I also think he's been to more than one rodeo. FBI BAU isn't usually on scene for the average threesome lovers' quarrel gone awry imo.

Good point about FBI BAU.
Does anyone know if it's unusual for them to be assigned to a case like this?
Like did they work on Delphi murders also?

 

[Butterscotch29]

ID. County Coroner's Access to Autopsy Report? Need to Know?
(Quoting a post on previous thread. And responding to it.)

@gliving Snipping for focus.
Briefly, imo per ID. statutes, coroner would need to know content of Autopsy Report because coroner would review it and include info from it in a report a coroner must file w dist. ct.

More specifically, per ID law, after a death which appears to have been caused by violence, coroner may order autopsy. (19-4301*)
Altho I don’t see specific language in statute requiring physician/pathologist to provide the A.Rpt. to coroner who ordered it, I believe that’s SOP.
This seems consistent imo w statutory reqmt for coroner to write a report of "material facts," including CoD & MoD, and to file it w dist. ct. clerk. (19-4301D)**

As statute also requires coroner to provide prosecuting atty “COPIES OF ALL RECORDS” (bbm) re deaths "for which further investigation may be advisable," seems coroner would need to include A.Rpt w those records.

The deceased’s NEXT OF KIN may have contact w coroner re release of the body.*** Seems likely imo that is when coroner talked w KG’s family members.

I wonder what Mabbutt told them. Possibly info beyond what she said in media interviews??? Were opinions she offered to family and to media within the scope of her expertise & education???
Imo jmo moo
________________________________________
ID statutes also govern procedures for coroners holding inquests, etc., but seem irrelevant here.)
* Section 19-4301 - COUNTY CORONER TO INVESTIGATE DEATHS.
Section 19-4301A - DEATHS TO BE REPORTED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS AND CORONER.
Section 19-4301B - PERFORMANCE OF AUTOPSIES.
*** Section 19-4301C - RELEASE OF BODY.
** Section 19-4301D - CORONER TO MAKE REPORTS.
^ 2016 Idaho Statutes :: Title 19 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: Chapter 43 - CORONER'S INQUESTS

Will the autopsies be released? Or do they hold onto that until trial?

 

[Boxer]

I watched a forensic show recently and they were able to create a profile from using dna and going backwards. It was quite interesting. In the end, the sketch they created looked amazingly like the real person. Not sure what this is called , but seems they might be able to do this more now if they have isolated dna?

Good idea. I think that kind of sketch is called Parabon. Hope they can.

 

[layer]

Yeah I think the same.

How did he know there wasn't more men in the house?
Maddie has a bf but he was in Boise. Dylans bf was out of town. Kaylee's ex bf wasn't in the house.

I think the killer knew exactly who was in the house. He knew the dog was docile.

He knew a lot about it.
Was he known to them or just do lots of recon or was he just plain lucky?

Given the killer's skill at stealth, I wouldn't underestimate their recon skills.

I still wonder if the killer went into that house when everyone was out that night. Not neccesarily to lay in wait, but to learn the layout of the house, make friends with Murphy, and maybe verify a lack of firearms and security systems.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

Given the killer's skill at stealth, I wouldn't underestimate their recon skills.

I still wonder if the killer went into that house when everyone was out that night. Not neccesarily to lay in wait, but to learn the layout of the house, make friends with Murphy, and maybe verify a lack of firearms and security systems.

Yeah I imagine him sneaking around the house. Maybe even a week before also.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

Yeah I imagine him sneaking around the house. Maybe even a week before also.

I’d bet he’s been in there a couple of times at least. Maybe even taken a little something that no one would notice was missing.

 

[bonniejeanne17]

A really well written book, with out all the speculation, what went on behind the scenes, and how did le drew the conclusion as to who the slasher is.

50 or less threads?

A book like Vincent Bugliosi's book, "Helter Skelter."

 

[MagicMan08]

I’d bet he’s been in there a couple of times at least. Maybe even taken a little something that no one would notice was missing.

Yeah my vibe is this....either invited into the house or even joined a random group.

 

[al66pine]

A Second Autopsy?

I missed this conversation but I am wondering if the parents would have been allowed to pay for their own independent autopsy and used that information to make their statements as reported?

@diggndeeperstill
IIRC, the bodies were released to Next of Kin w'in a few (3-4?) days. Once a body is released, NoK controls disposition --- additional autopsy, funeral, cremation, etc.

I don't have a clue about whether KG's parents actually arranged for a second autopsy. Possible. If so, they could have used findings as basis for their stmts to media.

But, if KG's parents received A.Rpt., it's possible they asked a pathologist, physician, or other med. professional to read it to help interpret tech. language or to offer opinion or comments. Parents could have used that as basis for stmts to media.

Trying to imagine what info from another autopsy could be helpful to parents for any reason.
IIRC, some stmts compared injuries of one victim to another victim (more stab wounds? deeper wounds?), but a second autopsy on one victim cannot confirm or refute that without second autopsies on the other victim(s). Drawing a blank here on what a second autopsy could show.

Not a situation where NoK want second autopsy to try to prove that the CoD or MoD was different from conclusions made in first A.Rpt.
Another autopsy is not going conclude CoD was blunt force trauma to brain (whatever the applicable med terms) subsequent to motor vehicle crash and MoD was accident. Is it possible a second autopsy might conclude a slightly different BAC level (if any)? Maybe. Maybe tox. tests would be run for more drugs? Maybe detect a drug the first did not, but imo not likely to change CoD or MoD.

I domnot imagine that a second A.Rpt. would have any impact on the criminal investigation or ultimately on judicial proceedings.
Is there a chance that NoK would have reason to dispute the CoD or MoD, as being other than homicide by stabbing? Doubtful imo.
imo jmo moo

 

[layer]

Will the autopsies be released? Or do they hold onto that until trial?

Definitely will not be released.

 

[al66pine]

I understood the Coroner took the bodies in and viewed them, then they were sent to the ME for autopsies?

@WildWest
"Took the bodies in." I do not recall hearing or reading this.
Link pls? TiA

 

[WildWest]

mary ellen o'toole on the idaho murders - Google Search

IMO, Mary-Ellen O’Toole & Candice DeLong are 2 of the best profilers.I like this clip w MaryE.
The killer was obviously comfortable being in ppl’s houses, uninvited. Probably not his first time.

Thank you for posting this! I'd seen it a few days ago but I heard things that I didn't the first time.

 

[layer]

I haven’t been commenting much here. Reason being is this is one of the most disturbing, horrific cases. It makes me sick an entire month has gone by without any justice in sight for these 4 beautiful kiddos. I’m heartbroken for their families. Praying for an arrest and conviction daily.

I feel so bad for the families. And in the end there is very little comfort in justice. Those beautiful souls, with so much promise, are gone for good.

 

[mendicant]

To imagine a perpetrator one must return to the primal scene: the execution of the crime, the sheer personal brutality. Something which began as a threat and spun out of control, angering the knifesman beyond measure, mid- -- mid-threat, let us say? Or random insanity? Or the old standby -- an affair of the heart gone wrong?

 

[GhostGhost]

The Coroner gets the Autopsies and Analysis - they are delivered to her and she signs off on their release (to LE).

Implications that she hasn’t seen the Autopsy reports and ME analysis don’t add up.

MOO

 

[blackbeary]

Good idea. I think that kind of sketch is called Parabon. Hope they can.

Parabon has Cee Cee Moore, and she's really successful in catching criminals !

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Yeah my vibe is this....either invited into the house or even joined a random group.

Or a pizza delivery boy sort of job.

 

[blackbeary]

Thank you for posting this! I'd seen it a few days ago but I heard things that I didn't the first time.

Mary was the profiler who said that the perp was full of hate for certain groups, and most likely expresses this to those around him. He doesn't look or act like a monster in regular settings.

 

[Andreee]

I've forgotten if it has been mentioned, but was the sliding door unlocked that the murderer came in off the kitchen? I seem to recall there was no sign of forced entry.

 

[everybodhi]

Good idea. I think that kind of sketch is called Parabon. Hope they can.

Parabon nanolabs is a forensic/genealogy company, they do a few things including developing nano pharmaceuticals and vaccines, but they’re famous in the crime community for their genetic phenotyping tool which creates the face images and also working with genealogy databases (notably GED/Match because they allow LE to obtain people’s data) to trace family trees to match unknown crime scene DNA to a person.
The tracing of family trees is a long process, it can take years. So this method is generally used in cold cases where time is not such a factor.
Active cases have many quicker ways to solve a crime that will be exhausted before they start that long drawn out process, imo.

Websleuths has a page dedicated to cases Parabon has solved in conjunction with GED/Match. There’s a lot of interesting info there.

Websleuths: DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.