ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 31

[Sister Golden Hair]

Good point about FBI BAU.
Does anyone know if it's unusual for them to be assigned to a case like this?
Like did they work on Delphi murders also?

IMO something happened in that house that screamed freak show, not your average quadruple homicide. ICBW, way wrong, but I also could be way right. I do know you don't call the BAU to do the donut runs, and if all local LE needed was tech expertise, no reason to bring in two BAU teams IMO. Regular FBI at your service.

Also IMO the top profilers are starting to leak a bit that it *could be* a serial killer. IMO I think they've suspected something twisted from the start or soon after, but LE is not going to run screaming from house, hands waving in the air, OMG!! serial killer alert!!!

That's not how that would happen IMO. Instead, they're going to investigate, keep it under wraps, and call in the FBI BAU. And then if that is the case, they'll leak it slowly and acclimate the public.

IMO something twisted happened in that house. That is only my opinion. I also think it was a pretty well planned and organized situation. I also think it was not random, not happenstance, not oh what they heck, these four will do. This was planned imo and he went to kill four people in a violent, up close and personal way, because that's who he is IMO and IMO he is reveling in his 'success'. Really has a Danny Rolling feel about it imo.

Here's what those people do, in their own words.

Behavioral Analysts | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Making sense of the incomprehensible. That’s the specialty of the eight agents of the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit-2, or BAU-2.

www.fbi.gov

Quoting:

Mark A Hilts: The type of cases we get involved in, the serial murder cases, the unusual, the bizarre cases, are the type of cases that most people, the average individual struggles to understand themselves. Why would somebody kill 10 different people over a year’s time period? What kind of person would chop somebody up or would carve something into a victim or would do some other bondage or other type activity? So it’s something that as normal human beings we struggle with, we don’t understand.

 

[blackbeary]

Definitely will not be released.

In the Rhoden massacre, redacted autopsies were released, I think it was due to media taking them to court.

 

[blackbeary]

I've forgotten if it has been mentioned, but was the sliding door unlocked that the murderer came in off the kitchen? I seem to recall there was no sign of forced entry.

The police said the door was open whenever they arrived, so I'm assuming it was the slider on the second floor, since everything coming out in the media is saying the slasher entered there.

 

[BlueTunes]

Yeah my vibe is this....either invited into the house or even joined a random group.

JMO

It’s possible E & X had someone else with them when they came home. Maybe someone they knew asked to “crash” there for the night. Only for him to kill them and K&M in their sleep. He may have had a specific target in mind but killed the 4 because they arrived home near the same time and were witnesses that he was there. It would explain why the killer didn’t kill the 2 survivors on the first floor. They had arrived home much earlier and were likely asleep. They didn’t see him and he didn’t see them. So no need to kill them. Just the target and any witnesses.

 

[mendicant]

JMO

It’s possible E & X had someone else with them when they came home. Maybe someone they knew asked to “crash” there for the night. Only for him to kill them and K&M in their sleep. He may have had a specific target in mind but killed the 4 because they arrived home near the same time and were witnesses that he was there. It would explain why the killer didn’t kill the 2 survivors on the first floor. They had arrived home much earlier and were likely asleep. They didn’t see him and he didn’t see them. So no need to kill them. Just the target and any witnesses.

Frat bro?

 

[wary]

If the killer has not been arrested for a felony his DNA won’t be in the police databank CODIS.
They have to physically find the killer and compare DNA from the crime scene.

Genetic genealogy works wonders now, if they have any DNA that they believe came from the killer. It won’t matter that he isn’t in CODIS.

LE tends to do that after other leads are exhausted, though

 

[blackbeary]

Good point about FBI BAU.
Does anyone know if it's unusual for them to be assigned to a case like this?
Like did they work on Delphi murders also?

There's the USA wide Vicap system that could have similar MO, unsolved cases entered by other jurisdictions.

 

[GhostGhost]

Good point about FBI BAU.
Does anyone know if it's unusual for them to be assigned to a case like this?
Like did they work on Delphi murders also?

Yes, they were involved in Delphi very early, and that didn’t go very well.


-

 

[Andreee]

The police said the door was open whenever they arrived, so I'm assuming it was the slider on the second floor, since everything coming out in the media is saying the slasher entered the

The police said the door was open whenever they arrived, so I'm assuming it was the slider on the second floor, since everything coming out in the media is saying the slasher entered there.

Oh, what I meant was I wonder if that sliding door was unlocked when the perp came in, or if it was forced open, although I think it was said that there was no sign of being forced.

 

[WildWest]

IMO something happened in that house that screamed freak show, not your average quadruple homicide. ICBW, way wrong, but I also could be way right. I do know you don't call the BAU to do the donut runs, and if all local LE needed was tech expertise, no reason to bring in two BAU teams IMO. Regular FBI at your service.

Also IMO the top profilers are starting to leak a bit that it *could be* a serial killer. IMO I think they've suspected something twisted from the start or soon after, but LE is not going to run screaming from house, hands waving in the air, OMG!! serial killer alert!!!

That's not how that would happen IMO. Instead, they're going to investigate, keep it under wraps, and call in the FBI BAU. And then if that is the case, they'll leak it slowly and acclimate the public.

IMO something twisted happened in that house. That is only my opinion. I also think it was a pretty well planned and organized situation. I also think it was not random, not happenstance, not oh what they heck, these four will do. This was planned imo and he went to kill four people in a violent, up close and personal way, because that's who he is IMO and IMO he is reveling in his 'success'. Really has a Danny Rolling feel about it imo.

Here's what those people do, in their own words.

Behavioral Analysts | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Making sense of the incomprehensible. That’s the specialty of the eight agents of the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit-2, or BAU-2.

www.fbi.gov

Quoting:

Mark A Hilts: The type of cases we get involved in, the serial murder cases, the unusual, the bizarre cases, are the type of cases that most people, the average individual struggles to understand themselves. Why would somebody kill 10 different people over a year’s time period? What kind of person would chop somebody up or would carve something into a victim or would do some other bondage or other type activity? So it’s something that as normal human beings we struggle with, we don’t understand.

I have hard time wrapping my mind around someone(or more) doing this. Most days I'm engaged with this crime but some I'm in disbelief this is true. Twisted is a nice way to say what we all know happened in that house. We have so many theories on profiles and more but bottom line seems a twisted evil person(s) did this. I've been praying they never get an opportunity again.

 

[Curiosa20]

I missed this conversation but I am wondering if the parents would have been allowed to pay for their own independent autopsy and used that information to make their statements as reported?

The post you responded to relates to Idaho which only governs part of the procedures.
The students bodies were transferred to Spokane County, Washington.
The parents have the right to the ME report and the right to speak privately with the ME to discuss findings, unless there is a compelling reason to not release them.
I shared the Spokane County Medical Examiner’s policies many threads ago. It’s a short, friendly read.

Medical Examiner | Spokane County, WA

The Medical Examiner is dedicated to excellence in public service by providing professional, scientific, and compassionate forensic death investigation services.

www.spokanecounty.org

Medical Examiner Policies of Interest to the General Public | Spokane County, WA

View Medical Examiner policies that are of interest to the general public.

www.spokanecounty.org

They have the right to autopsy but I can’t imagine why they would do that given the circumstances, IMO.
Also, as you mentioned, the Mortuary can offer information and of course, the right to view the deceased..
MOO

 

[WildWest]

or if it was forced open

MPD stated there was no forced entry. The possiblities are endless!

 

[Lillymac]

This would drive me nuts. You have to trust but it’s hard to trust because of how things are unfolding right now. I mean these store vids should have been secured by now. Moscow doesn’t have many businesses.

Just sad.

Well I hope they have more than a video of a white car driving down the road at 3:45 a.m. the day of the murders. JMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Parabon nanolabs is a forensic/genealogy company, they do a few things including developing nano pharmaceuticals and vaccines, but they’re famous in the crime community for their genetic phenotyping tool which creates the face images and also working with genealogy databases (notably GED/Match because they allow LE to obtain people’s data) to trace family trees to match unknown crime scene DNA to a person.
The tracing of family trees is a long process, it can take years. So this method is generally used in cold cases where time is not such a factor.
Active cases have many quicker ways to solve a crime that will be exhausted before they start that long drawn out process, imo.

Websleuths has a page dedicated to cases Parabon has solved in conjunction with GED/Match. There’s a lot of interesting info there.

Websleuths: DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.

As more people have submitted their DNA, that process has become much less time consuming than it used to be. I recently listened to a Cold Case podcast in which the DNA tree was built and the perpetrator identified in 2 days. I was really surprised.

 

[everybodhi]

In the Rhoden massacre, redacted autopsies were released, I think it was due to media taking them to court.

AG DeWine voluntarily released heavily redacted versions, (no tox report, no info on type of wounds or how they were inflicted, no info of the order of the murders), 5 months after the murders.
Then media went to the state Supreme Court for unredacted versions but they lost.

Ohio Supreme Court: Complete autopsy reports on Rhodens are not public

Those records would be publicly available after the criminal investigation ends, she wrote. "In order that justice might be delivered to all, patience may be required of some.”

 

[everybodhi]

As more people have submitted their DNA, that process has become much less time consuming than it used to be. I recently listened to a Cold Case podcast in which the DNA tree was built and the perpetrator identified in 2 days. I was really surprised.

Yes I heard it too, they were shocked themselves and said they were lucky to hit it on the first branch they searched.
If I remember correctly, that was traced by Cee Cee Moore, she also found April Tinsley’s murderer in 6 weeks.
But it’s still unusual and not a tactic LE normally use in an active investigation.
No doubt with more people in the two data bases they can use without a warrant (GED/Match and Family Tree DNA) and as the team of collaborators working the trees grows, they will solve cases faster.

Just curious, do you know of any case this method has been used that wasn’t a cold case, typically years or decades old?
I’m just wondering because I can’t find one.

 

[Curiosa20]

And this, too:

Will the Idaho college murders become America’s next cold case?

It’s been one month since four Idaho students were brutally murdered, and fears are growing that the case is going cold. Rachel Sharp and Josh Marcus explore a troubling trend in America’s homicide clearance rates - and what happens to the families and communities left without answers

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Andreee]

MPD stated there was no forced entry. The possiblities are endless!

Ah, I see!!

 

[WildWest]

Ah, I see!!

Oh I'm glad you got my post, except I'm mystified what exactly "no forced entry" means. Does that mean like nothing broken, or a door was not locked, or a person was invited there?

 

[BlueTunes]

Frat bro?

Too early to say.