ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[CeeMDubs]

Maggie is not correct. The LE statement says the owner of the car isn't involved. They say NOTHING about the CAR not being involved. It appears stolen to me, so......

EPD says the car had been involved in a "job injury crash" earlier in the week (on December 15) and was left on Seneca Road after the involved parties exchanged information.


It does not appear stolen or connected to the murders, IMO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

EPD says the car had been involved in a "job injury crash" earlier in the week (on December 15) and was left on Seneca Road after the involved parties exchanged information.


It does not appear stolen or connected to the murders, IMO.

It probably has nothing to do with anything, but how can you report an injury and just exchange info?

 

[ilovewings]

I think it was hastily put together but only because the owner was getting doxxed (and apparently harrassed) by the armchair quarterbacks. If people 1000's of miles away could chill out for 5 minutes and not believe they have so much more info than MPD, they wouldn't have to put these quick hit statements out. What is wrong with people?

I don't think they can make a definitive statement about the car itself until it has been through some sort of processing/examination, which could take a few days.

Solving crimes has always been challenging, but now with social media (armchair, podcast) quarterbacks critiquing every move the police make in a high profile case, well honestly, I feel bad for the police who are trying to do their job under huge pressure circumstances. People demand this , demand that, they know better than the police (sarcasm here) and don't understand why the case isn't solved in a a few days or a month-- you know, like Law and Order. This case may or may not be solved sooner than later, or never, but the police, along with the FBI are doing the best they can---and I think they know more than I do about this case.

 

[NCgardener]

MPD backtracked on ruling out a connection. They are looking into it. I posted a link several times today. IMO.

"We’re looking at every avenue and we have other agencies reaching out to us with other cases and stuff that we are going to follow up on those,” (Frye) told reporters.

Mom of slain Oregon man Travis Juetten speaks out after cops eye link to University of Idaho murders

Travis Juetten, 26, died while trying to fight a masked intruder who also attacked his 24-year-old wife as they were sleeping in their Silverton home at 3 a.m, police said.

nypost.com

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think it was hastily put together but only because the owner was getting doxxed (and apparently harrassed) by the armchair quarterbacks. If people 1000's of miles away could chill out for 5 minutes and not believe they have so much more info than MPD, they wouldn't have to put these quick hit statements out. What is wrong with people?

I don't think they can make a definitive statement about the car itself until it has been through some sort of processing/examination, which could take a few days.

I'm wondering how anyone found out who the owner is. Did someone dash to the car and get info out of it? VIN? And what open source will give you info on a VIN?

 

[WildWest]

It probably has nothing to do with anything, but how can you report an injury and just exchange info?

Interesting! I have a few examples of sales people using personal cars but none address the "work injury".

 

[Strong1]

No, it only leads to rumors fanned by press erecting strawman arguments. If the cops gave every detail they have the press would still be saying they want more or they will continue to spin the rumors and innuendo you are seeing sprouted by the press.
What businesses is it of the public where the owner is? So that press can camp out outside some innocent and irrelevant persons house and stalk and harrass them??

The cops have let out too much information frankly and now that they have seen people doxxed and harrassed I think they know to give out as little as possible

Okay, I understand what your saying. But this is a statement put out by the Moscow PD. This is not some media story. They put out a statement like this, that clears the owner of the car, but they leave any info regarding the car out. If they didn't want any info out there, then why not say the car wasn't involved? It just opens it up to speculation. As far as info on the owner, it would be interesting to know if they were in Oregon or Colorado. If they were in Colorado it would led one to believe that maybe they weren't driving the car.
As far as LE letting out to much information, what information? The car? This has been one of the most tight lipped investigations I can recall. Do I think LE should release information to the general public? Absolutely not. Keeping the integrity of the investigation is important. All I was saying is that by issuing a statement like this, they are just opening themselves up.

 

[Celt1997]

I'm wondering how anyone found out who the owner is. Did someone dash to the car and get info out of it? VIN? And what open source will give you info on a VIN?

Yes, someone did a full video "walkaround" of the vehicle and posted it to social media. They zoomed in on the VIN and it grew wings and flew across the internet from there. It's so disgusting what people will do for "likes" these days, including getting right up to a vehicle which could have had evidence on/in/around it.

 

[Diogenetic]

I'm wondering how anyone found out who the owner is. Did someone dash to the car and get info out of it? VIN? And what open source will give you info on a VIN?

carfax

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Setting the serial killer speculation aside for the moment, and assuming that all four victims were killed by the same individual, what are the chances that this was the killer's first time taking a human life? I've heard at least one respected profiler hypothesize that the killer had killed animals previously (she was notably less confident that he had killed a human/humans before).

Acknowledging there's a lot we don't know -- how messy or tidy the crime scene was, whether/to what extent the killer was wounded during the attacks (e.g., from knife slippage), whether the killer knew how many people were in the house and which rooms they were in -- I think it is staggeringly improbable that someone who had never stabbed a human before would have the composure/confidence to sneak into a home occupied by multiple college students, kill four of them quickly and quietly enough to avoid being detected by the housemates or neighbors, and then successfully flee the scene and disappear into the night. To execute a mass stabbing under those conditions, I think the killer would need either (a) confidence gleaned from the experience of having killed before, (b) chemical courage that would remove inhibitions/stress during the performance of the killings, or (c) rage so consuming that he (temporarily) did not care about being caught.

I get that the victims were sleeping and had been drinking and therefore were in a vulnerable position. But the killer assumed substantial risk in order to carry out a mass murder in that setting. In my opinion, there's a good chance he had killed before.

 

[hopewell]

I get that the victims were sleeping and had been drinking and therefore were in a vulnerable position. But the killer assumed substantial risk in order to carry out a mass murder in that setting. In my opinion, there's a good chance he had killed before.

A better than good chance he has killed before if he is a serial killer. I can only think of Danny Rollings who had a similar first kill. The fact that BAU was dispatched and on-scene within hours tells me the crime scene was more disturbing than usual in some way.

If this was committed due to passion, impulsive rage, and/or personal grievance, I imagine the killer would've left obvious clues and evidence, and would be in jail by now.

My opinion.

 

[shortiepaulsimon]

Was the Adam guy a red herring?

 

[Sulpac]

Here I am thinking I'm doing a great sleuthing job by finding out who "Adam" is, only to find I was beaten to the punch 10 hours ago lol.

 

[Diogenetic]

Okay, I understand what your saying. But this is a statement put out by the Moscow PD. This is not some media story. They put out a statement like this, that clears the owner of the car, but they leave any info regarding the car out. If they didn't want any info out there, then why not say the car wasn't involved? It just opens it up to speculation. As far as info on the owner, it would be interesting to know if they were in Oregon or Colorado. If they were in Colorado it would led one to believe that maybe they weren't driving the car.
As far as LE letting out to much information, what information? The car? This has been one of the most tight lipped investigations I can recall. Do I think LE should release information to the general public? Absolutely not. Keeping the integrity of the investigation is important. All I was saying is that by issuing a statement like this, they are just opening themselves up.

Because a) the car cant be doxxed and harassed by the media, the owner can be; and b) they still are probably going to process the vehicle to some extent. that processing even minimally may take a few days longer.

so the statement makes perfect sense to me

As far as anything being open to speculation you are going to get the same type of speculation no matter what. This case is like Petito or Delphi, it is on one hand a murder investigation, but in the bigger picture, from a cultural perspective it is a media phenomena and teach us about media, especially the underbelly.

The authorities have already given out ore info than most open homicide cases.

Look I do get your point about lack of information causing rumor to move into information vacuum. It is a basic tenet of crisis comms which I have some academic and early career experience. Leave a vacuum and rumor fills it. But we also need to know that in a high publicity event like this, with four attractive telegenic young people, who we know only from social media, ie good side, murdered as they slept created a situation -- where no amount of released information is going to be enough.

But counterpoised against the small harm from too little information are at least four MAJOR harms from releasing too much:
1) Damage to investigation. This can happen in many ways from seeming innocuous info being released. for one, there is a lot only cops and killer know, and that is important to preserve. Also cops may have one o two or three prime suspects right now
2) damage to case prosecution
3) reputational harm, harassment, and even possible physical harm to persons who are persons who may have info, or persons of interest of the day
4) the more info they give out is a diversion of resources in man hours parsing statements, and getting approval or advice from various agencies.

 

[SteveP]

It probably has nothing to do with anything, but how can you report an injury and just exchange info?

I can't believe it was allowed to just sit there for days, without being towed. In my city, it would have been stripped within 24 hours.

 

[katydid23]

There’s our answer?

Not really. It actually makes me more suspicious of the car possibly being connected to the crime. It could have been stolen in Colorado by a transient/predator, who ended up in another college town, looking for victims. JMO

 

[zephyr22]

Dang it. another dead end folks.

 

[Strong1]

Not really. It actually makes me more suspicious of the car possibly being connected to the crime. It could have been stolen in Colorado by a transient/predator, who ended up in another college town, looking for victims. JMO

I agree, but it didn't necessarily need to be stolen. It could have been driven by a family member or lent to a friend.

 

[CityKid]

Are they seriously just now interviewing Adam? I doubt it. K and M were at the bar, if Adam was the bartender, then surely they interviewed him within the first week after the murders, along with others that were at the bar that night.

at this point, with all the "J" names, I assume there is more than one Adam. I'm not taking any parental comments as gospel, so I'm not convinced that this Adam being discussed is necessarily the bartender Adam.

 

[CrownCowboy1]

Setting the serial killer speculation aside for the moment, and assuming that all four victims were killed by the same individual, what are the chances that this was the killer's first time taking a human life? I've heard at least one respected profiler hypothesize that the killer had killed animals previously (she was notably less confident that he had killed a human/humans before).

Acknowledging there's a lot we don't know -- how messy or tidy the crime scene was, whether/to what extent the killer was wounded during the attacks (e.g., from knife slippage), whether the killer knew how many people were in the house and which rooms they were in -- I think it is staggeringly improbable that someone who had never stabbed a human before would have the composure/confidence to sneak into a home occupied by multiple college students, kill four of them quickly and quietly enough to avoid being detected by the housemates or neighbors, and then successfully flee the scene and disappear into the night. To execute a mass stabbing under those conditions, I think the killer would need either (a) confidence gleaned from the experience of having killed before, (b) chemical courage that would remove inhibitions/stress during the performance of the killings, or (c) rage so consuming that he (temporarily) did not care about being caught.

I get that the victims were sleeping and had been drinking and therefore were in a vulnerable position. But the killer assumed substantial risk in order to carry out a mass murder in that setting. In my opinion, there's a good chance he had killed before.

I agree.

Not only do I believe he has killed before based from the rationales you provide but you can also reasonably determine from the circumstances that this killer more than likely planned the attack. To get away from authorities for this long considering the scope of the crime is not something that was enabled by chance. In order to pull something like this off in with what little we know of the crime scene and considering the rather condensed area of houses and college aged kids roaming around took efforts that were predetermined in my view.

I understand it was night as well as the vulnerable state of the victims but that only strengthens the argument. We do not know if any DNA from the killer was left but the fact remains that even if it was, he has still alluded LE.