ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[RAISINISBACK]

Idaho murders: Police running down list of 22K Hyundais, seek 'anything abnormal' in frat party timeline

"Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus," police reiterated in a statement Thursday. "Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred."

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

I agree that this person is extremely dangerous, I wouldn't want to meet up with him! Hopefully the FBI'S assistance will help solve this crime. They are definitely the experts in the U.S.

I believe the questions that have been expressed are 1. Is the suspect a fellow student ? Most would lean toward the likelihood of a person living off campus and not involved with the University. We saw many examples where the girls had acquaintances off campus (assuming they are not part of campus.

2. Most have asked about the character of the individual. He is assumed very familiar and attached to the use of his knife. He is extremely violent and forceful in accomplishing what he intended. He had expressed rage with multiple stab wounds observed for each victim. He went to the home for a narrow time range. He acted when they would most likely be asleep. He left without being easily detected. He would lack a certain level of remorse and posseses a certain level of entitlement.

Could this person be familiar with this level of violence ?. A person with a criminal record and nonreformable.? Could they have felt that they had to complete the action in all four because the suspect was familiar with the 4. If he acted on his target then the others would be able to identify him. I believe the suspect resolved to kill all four before he arrived. An all or none decision. Suspect was unfamiliar with the two survivors.

 

[LadyBelle]

This just out...

Video: It's been over 5 weeks since the Idaho student killings. Victim's father shares why he's still hopeful | CNN

CNN anchor Jim Sciutto speaks with Steve Goncalves, father of murdered University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves, and their family attorney, Shanon Gray, on the current status of the investigation. Kaylee was one of four students killed in the early morning hours on November 13.

www.cnn.com

 

[Jawds78]

The thread is moving way too fast for me...but I posted and I should have EDITED it:

Not everyone has a conscience though. Psychopaths do not feel empathy or remorse like normal people do. They are hardwired differently.

Yes, psychopaths can feel some empathy but it takes a cold-blooded killer to stab to death four people and NOT feel any remorse. But we won't know until they catch the killer if they are guilt-ridden with remorse or feel justified or feel nothing at all.
So far they haven't turned themselves in so...we wait.

Killing 4 makes this person eligible for the death penalty no? I believe that, and/or shame will keep from coming forward on their own. They will be hated by many no doubt. Just IMO.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

LE has never mentioned any sort of "trophy" taken from the scene which is of course privileged information but that could be key as to the murders being by a psycho serial killer or a "local" revenge killing. We are located much to close to BTK's operating area and he always took a "trophy".

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin
8m
Classes will resume at the University of Idaho on January 11th. They are adding more security on campus, distributing birdie personal safety alarms, offering self-defense workshops and stalking awareness education, among other safety measures.

 

[acutename]

from the last thread:

I’ve also been curious about how PD can put such an early time stamp on the times of death.

Last texts went out 2:52AM or so from K’s phone, presumably by her
Bodies discovered near 11:58AM after 911 call due to discovering of unconscious person by roommate
That is nine hours

What event happened in the morning to allow them to say the perp was gone from the scene by 5 or 6AM? Dawn?

JMO

Idaho university murders: Investigators seen measuring tire ...​

https://www.foxnews.com › idaho-university-murders-inv...




Nov 19, 2022 — Idaho investigators were seen measuring tire marks outside of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed ...

maybe when they were measuring tire tread marks, they have info that the Elantra was actually at the house... in the driveway? (IMO... just a conjecture)

 

[LadyBelle]

Idaho murders: University adding more campus security personnel in spring semester

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21, were stabbed several times and killed Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

 

[AngTxGal]

Copied from prior thread by Cryptic
I really like your division of attackers into two general groups:

- Glory Seekers who dont care if they are caught.
- Survivalists who seek to avoid capture.
Hazarding a guess, I would think a humiliated party goer would gravitate towards "Glory Seeker":

- He attacks the person who rejected him. And, also , but extends the attack to "The House" as a whole because other residents are part of "The System" (attractive, socially confident students- females in particular).

- Naturally, he would want others to know why he attacked "The System" and why the attack was "deserved". So.... he looks forward to going out in a blaze of glory.

The attacker, however, in this case appears to be a "survivalist". Perhaps there is a middle ground:

- Attacker was initially a Glory Seeker. Maybe retreated to his home and was waiting to do a "suicide by cop" to facilitate his "martyrdom".

- But.... the cops never showed up. Given sometime to pause, the perpetrator becomes a "survivalist" and no longer wants what he feels would be the ever lasting fame associated with the crime?

My 2c
Yes, that was my thinking too, that the humiliated or rejected young person would be more like a school shooter, trying to make a point, willing to end it in a death by cop.

Exactly as you describe, the idea that they hid the crime and intended to survive is one reason I think the perp may be an older version of the ‘school shooter blaze of glory killer’. They do not have a specific personal target, just a type of person or lifestyle. The fact that they are older could imply that they are more mature, want to live, have more experience, may have a prior?

If the perp had wanted to die in a blaze of glory would they have not left a trail so they could be found? Since they did not, the fact remains that they are at large, hidden, unknown.
The type of person who becomes a school shooter is terrifying, but school shooters don’t repeat the offense.
This perp is different- the did a good job concealing their identity, they lived to act again.

Stuff for thought
JMO

 

[mendicant]

38 days.

 

[SMK777]

-Attacker was initially a Glory Seeker. Maybe retreated to his home and was waiting to do a "suicide by cop" to facilitate his "martyrdom".

- But.... the cops never showed up. Given sometime to pause, the perpetrator becomes a "survivalist" and no longer wants what he feels would be the ever lasting fame associated with the crime?

SBBM
I think it’s very likely that it was this middle ground which you state above.

At first, surprised and disappointed that he wasn’t caught. He was ready to go out in a blaze of glory.

But as time passes, he gets used to not being caught, and now he no longer wants to be caught.

The whole thing has sunk in: he’s seen the community’s reaction, and he’s come down from the whole thing. At this point, he’s scared to die, and afraid of being arrested.

 

[LadyBelle]

Copied from prior thread by Cryptic
I really like your division of attackers into two general groups:

- Glory Seekers who dont care if they are caught.
- Survivalists who seek to avoid capture.
Hazarding a guess, I would think a humiliated party goer would gravitate towards "Glory Seeker":

- He attacks the person who rejected him. And, also , but extends the attack to "The House" as a whole because other residents are part of "The System" (attractive, socially confident students- females in particular).

- Naturally, he would want others to know why he attacked "The System" and why the attack was "deserved". So.... he looks forward to going out in a blaze of glory.

The attacker, however, in this case appears to be a "survivalist". Perhaps there is a middle ground:

- Attacker was initially a Glory Seeker. Maybe retreated to his home and was waiting to do a "suicide by cop" to facilitate his "martyrdom".

- But.... the cops never showed up. Given sometime to pause, the perpetrator becomes a "survivalist" and no longer wants what he feels would be the ever lasting fame associated with the crime?

My 2c
Yes, that was my thinking too, that the humiliated or rejected young person would be more like a school shooter, trying to make a point, willing to end it in a death by cop.

Exactly as you describe, the idea that they hid the crime and intended to survive is one reason I think the perp may be an older version of the ‘school shooter blaze of glory killer’. They do not have a specific personal target, just a type of person or lifestyle. The fact that they are older could imply that they are more mature, want to live, have more experience, may have a prior?

If the perp had wanted to die in a blaze of glory would they have not left a trail so they could be found? Since they did not, the fact remains that they are at large, hidden, unknown.
The type of person who becomes a school shooter is terrifying, but school shooters don’t repeat the offense.
This perp is different- the did a good job concealing their identity, they lived to act again.

Stuff for thought
JMO

Thanks for posting all of this. Very helpful

 

[knuterocknes]

I really feel for the Moscow police. They are now having to spend as much time defending themselves as they are on the investigation.

It's frustrating because cases aren't wrapped neatly in an hour like they are in CSI or SVU. It's a process that is incredibly daunting, they have to comb through tips, evidence and possible suspects. Also, when evidence is released to the public that evidence took investigators awhile to find! The public or these "armchair detectives" online are expecting more, but that's not the reality of an investigation. My father is a detective, he has worked on numerous murder cases, it is not as easy as people online want to make it seem. The Moscow PD are doing their best.

 

[Down To Earth]

One of the many puzzling aspects of this crime that bends my brain is how, if the perp(s) made as clean a getaway as the general public is aware of, how did they integrate this into life today? Somewhere there is a person or persons who have compartmentalized this heinous crime enough to continue living (as far as we know). So are they in the woods somewhere Uni-bomber style with no attachment to the rest of civilization? Did they zoom off to begin a new life somewhere? If so, how are they pulling in an income to survive on? What stories are they using to explain themselves to the people they encounter in their new life? Are they still local to the area of the crime? If so, are they without contact with anyone else? How is anyone who did this crime also pulling off the act of continuing on? They have to eat, they have to sleep somewhere. I'm not asking how they have the gall, I'm speaking of the logistics. I think we know they have plenty of gall.

On another note, I think we get a decent measure of the investigation by Moscow PD's release about the White Hyundai:
"Investigators believe the occupant(s) may have critical information to share regarding this case".
An investigation lacking critical information isn't doomed, but IMOO doesn't seem likely to be circling the drain on an arrest/conviction without the Hyundai or some other large piece of the puzzle unearthed. I am not without hope and I believe the investigation will lead to an arrest and conviction at some point in time. I heard a podcast describe it pretty well: The investigation is like trying to walk across to the other side of a frozen lake. It has to be done very carefully at each step to avoid the whole thing cracking apart.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

From the Moscow Police press release dated 12-15-2022 (Edited date):
ETA: IMO, this is strong evidence of how dedicated the state is to this investigation!

"Additional information related to the investigation:
[.....]
• Gov. Brad Little directed up to $1 million in state emergency funds for the ongoing investigation "

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID
https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24939/12-15-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

 

[jumpingjackflash]

It is still possible that they suspect someone from the inner circle but need more evidence to absolutely secure an arrest and conviction.

I recall reading a book on the Skylar Neese case, and although law enforcement suspected her 2 close friends early on, I was shocked to see what a long drawn out process it was to finally arrest them.

I’m trying to stay open to the possibility of the killer being an acquaintance of the victims. However, an acquaintance would likely have knowledge of the number of people in the home. That means they either intended to kill all four victims or, at a minimum, were not dissuaded by the possibility of “needing” to kill four people. What’s more, the “patterns” LE has alluded to when speaking about the Elantra suggest to me that the vehicle belongs to someone who is not living in the immediate vicinity of 1122 King and who is not part of the student/Greek community. And, like more than one behavioral profiler speaking to this case have said, the killer more likely than not struggles to fit in socially, maintain relationships, etc., suggesting that he was not a friend or former/current bf to the students. To my mind, that narrows down the potential *type* of acquaintance to someone who moved on the fringes of the victims’ social circle but was not part of it. It is doubtful to me that he was ever invited into that home by any of the victims. My 2 cents.

 

[Trino]

I am hopeful too. I saw a few threads ago that someone suggested re-reading the early reporting. I went back to the New York Times on Nov 14, 2022. I think the mayor was being as accurate, forthright and careful when he stated the following:

"Art Bettge, the mayor of Moscow, Idaho, said in an interview that the authorities were still investigating what had transpired but that the case was being treated as a homicide. He said the authorities did not believe that there was a “perceivable danger to the broader public,” but he declined to say how the victims had been killed or whether a suspect was at large.

“With a crime of this magnitude, it’s very difficult to work through,” Mr. Bettge said, adding that the police needed time to piece together what had transpired. “The overall assessment is that it’s a crime of passion,” he said."

Not accurate. No longer a crime of passion. Of course, there is a danger to the public with this crazed killer walking around.

As time goes by, I'm becoming more and more connvinced that this is the work of a dangerous psychopath. The simple solutions seem to have failed to pan out for LE. It could be a serial killer, it could be a one-off. Whatever it is, I hope they catch him soon. The victims and their families deserve justice. And we deserve to feel safe in our beds at night.

Mods, sorry if I am stepping out of line here. Snip as needed.
Just an observation:
We are all mods, of sorts. Try to moderate your own posts so the real mods don't have to waste their time doing it. We all have different views and opinions, that's what make these discussions varied and rich. Nothing can be learned in an echo chamber. Express your opinions carefully, with respect and kindness, so your posts can remain and we can all be enriched by them.

How about a brain injury?

 

[NCgardener]

One of the many puzzling aspects of this crime that bends my brain is how, if the perp(s) made as clean a getaway as the general public is aware of, how did they integrate this into life today? Somewhere there is a person or persons who have compartmentalized this heinous crime enough to continue living (as far as we know). So are they in the woods somewhere Uni-bomber style with no attachment to the rest of civilization? Did they zoom off to begin a new life somewhere? If so, how are they pulling in an income to survive on? What stories are they using to explain themselves to the people they encounter in their new life? Are they still local to the area of the crime? If so, are they without contact with anyone else? How is anyone who did this crime also pulling off the act of continuing on? They have to eat, they have to sleep somewhere. I'm not asking how they have the gall, I'm speaking of the logistics. I think we know they have plenty of gall.

On another note, I think we get a decent measure of the investigation by Moscow PD's release about the White Hyundai:
"Investigators believe the occupant(s) may have critical information to share regarding this case".
An investigation lacking critical information isn't doomed, but IMOO doesn't seem likely to be circling the drain on an arrest/conviction without the Hyundai or some other large piece of the puzzle unearthed. I am not without hope and I believe the investigation will lead to an arrest and conviction at some point in time. I heard a podcast describe it pretty well: The investigation is like trying to walk across to the other side of a frozen lake. It has to be done very carefully at each step to avoid the whole thing cracking apart.

For many reasons, I think the person is from out of town. I don't think they changed much about their habits. I think they made time for the crime like planning an event.

I hope they didn't even borrow the car, though! They may have thought being from a different area was enough on that front. And probably fake plates.

 

[LadyBelle]

One of the many puzzling aspects of this crime that bends my brain is how, if the perp(s) made as clean a getaway as the general public is aware of, how did they integrate this into life today? Somewhere there is a person or persons who have compartmentalized this heinous crime enough to continue living (as far as we know). So are they in the woods somewhere Uni-bomber style with no attachment to the rest of civilization? Did they zoom off to begin a new life somewhere? If so, how are they pulling in an income to survive on? What stories are they using to explain themselves to the people they encounter in their new life? Are they still local to the area of the crime? If so, are they without contact with anyone else? How is anyone who did this crime also pulling off the act of continuing on? They have to eat, they have to sleep somewhere. I'm not asking how they have the gall, I'm speaking of the logistics. I think we know they have plenty of gall.

On another note, I think we get a decent measure of the investigation by Moscow PD's release about the White Hyundai:
"Investigators believe the occupant(s) may have critical information to share regarding this case".
An investigation lacking critical information isn't doomed, but IMOO doesn't seem likely to be circling the drain on an arrest/conviction without the Hyundai or some other large piece of the puzzle unearthed. I am not without hope and I believe the investigation will lead to an arrest and conviction at some point in time. I heard a podcast describe it pretty well: The investigation is like trying to walk across to the other side of a frozen lake. It has to be done very carefully at each step to avoid the whole thing cracking apart.

I'd just like to respond to the first half of your post. You are viewing this situation is perfectly normal way. That anyone who can kill 4 people must feel terrible and need to compartmentalize their heinous acts. I'm not a pro but having read much about this type of person - they may have no need to compartmentalize at all. Compartmentalizing is a coping mechanism against, guilt, fear, shame. We are most likely dealing with someone who wiring does not allow them to feel the full spectrum of these emotions. Even worse, this person might feel proud or on top of the world because of what they've accomplished. IMO We will not know for sure until we know who it is.
Often these people do seem a bit odd to others but often they are fully functional and go undetected.
It's horrifying to realize this.

 

[AngTxGal]

from the last thread:

Idaho university murders: Investigators seen measuring tire ...​

https://www.foxnews.com › idaho-university-murders-inv...




Nov 19, 2022 — Idaho investigators were seen measuring tire marks outside of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed ...

maybe when they were measuring tire tread marks, they have info that the Elantra was actually at the house... in the driveway? (IMO... just a conjecture)

I see that these tire marks may have made a noise from speeding away.

It could be a noise at a specific time that led LE to think the perp was out of the house by 5 or 6 AM
From the previous thread:
If the roommate survivors heard someone walking around upstairs in the early morning, and they could specify the time as earlier than 6AM
And they could eliminate that it wasn’t anyone who was on 1st Floor that made the noises
And no noises were heard coming from upstairs after 6AM
And the time of death of the victims is hours prior to 6AM- such as 3-4AM
Then the noises of someone walking around upstairs was someone in the home, the killer!

JMO