ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[z0mer]

I’m trying to stay open to the possibility of the killer being an acquaintance of the victims. However, an acquaintance would likely have knowledge of the number of people in the home. That means they either intended to kill all four victims or, at a minimum, were not dissuaded by the possibility of “needing” to kill four people. What’s more, the “patterns” LE has alluded to when speaking about the Elantra suggest to me that the vehicle belongs to someone who is not living in the immediate vicinity of 1122 King and who is not part of the student/Greek community. And, like more than one behavioral profiler speaking to this case have said, the killer more likely than not struggles to fit in socially, maintain relationships, etc., suggesting that he was not a friend or former/current bf to the students. To my mind, that narrows down the potential *type* of acquaintance to someone who moved on the fringes of the victims’ social circle but was not part of it. It is doubtful to me that he was ever invited into that home by any of the victims. My 2 cents.

Yeah, but I still find it strange that a white/light coloured sedan was heading towards the house around 02:45-03:15. That's almost perfect timing considering the last calls were made around 02:45 I believe. If it was some random killer, wouldn't it be more likely he was waiting there longer (if the car has actually anything to do with the crime).

 

[formerlyme]

Just catching up , I had to take a several day break from this case, with limited information there were just too many roads to travel. I am hopeful the BOLO for the car will eventually pan out, at least it is something. I just cannot wrap my head around this being a sophisticated killer who was smart and left little to no evidence. Just my opinion.

 

[NCgardener]

Do we have members living more towards Vancouver, WA? It might be helpful to put up posters about the car in those towns where the other unsolved stabbings took place in case it's the same perp.

 

[AngTxGal]

It's frustrating because cases aren't wrapped neatly in an hour like they are in CSI or SVU. It's a process that is incredibly daunting, they have to comb through tips, evidence and possible suspects. Also, when evidence is released to the public that evidence took investigators awhile to find! The public or these "armchair detectives" online are expecting more, but that's not the reality of an investigation. My father is a detective, he has worked on numerous murder cases, it is not as easy as people online want to make it seem. The Moscow PD are doing their best.

I can’t imagine how frustrating it would be to be second guessed constantly. It happens in every case, no matter how well LE does, someone isn’t happy and making headlines telling everyone so. They are poachers, using the deaths of young people as fodder to push their own agenda and get views. It is dangerous, but I absolutely believe freedom of speech is necessary.
Somewhere between Public Silence/ Controlled Media and Loud Idiots Complaining About Everything is the middle- compromise, balance, public scrutiny and PD openness, all the while a case is being built to convict the guilty And give justice to the victims in the name of the laws of the land.
Not that anyone needs a reminder, but sometimes it is helpful to imagine the why and the alternative.
It isn‘t a perfect system, but it is our system, and it is better than most.

I didn’t care for the little stocky beat cop that gave me a ticket about three months ago, he was quite full of himself, looked about 18 but strutting his power. We all know the kind that dares you to question the authority he exudes from every pore. Those make the good cops get questioned.

I appreciate the Moscow PD Press Releases and the videos, they are trying to be transparent, and they don’t owe us any of that.

JMO

 

[NCgardener]

Yeah, but I still find it strange that a white/light coloured sedan was heading towards the house around 02:45-03:15. That's almost perfect timing considering the last calls were made around 02:45 I believe. If it was some random killer, wouldn't it be more likely he was waiting there longer (if the car has actually anything to do with the crime).

Right? If it were a stranger scoping it out, why would he need to drive right then?

I have one scenario: he was visiting someone behind the house. He saw what happened in the house. Then he made his exit from the house where he was by car because the other people in that house would think him leaving on foot would be very odd.

Or maybe he was watching the Food Truck stream?

I don't know. Interesting!!

 

[drmrgrl]

I really feel for the Moscow police. They are now having to spend as much time defending themselves as they are on the investigation.

I am hopeful too. I saw a few threads ago that someone suggested re-reading the early reporting. I went back to the New York Times on Nov 14, 2022. I think the mayor was being as accurate, forthright and careful when he stated the following:

"Art Bettge, the mayor of Moscow, Idaho, said in an interview that the authorities were still investigating what had transpired but that the case was being treated as a homicide. He said the authorities did not believe that there was a “perceivable danger to the broader public,” but he declined to say how the victims had been killed or whether a suspect was at large.

“With a crime of this magnitude, it’s very difficult to work through,” Mr. Bettge said, adding that the police needed time to piece together what had transpired. “The overall assessment is that it’s a crime of passion,” he said."

IMO crime of passion= killer was livid with the victims-absolutely livid. I am guessing the killer came into some info that infuriated him and or his pals. He or friends took the matter into their own hands to deal with the situation. There is no serial killer. Just someone who was mad about being kept in the dark about something.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Yeah, but I still find it strange that a white/light coloured sedan was heading towards the house around 02:45-03:15. That's almost perfect timing considering the last calls were made around 02:45 I believe. If it was some random killer, wouldn't it be more likely he was waiting there longer (if the car has actually anything to do with the crime).

I haven’t seen LE issue a statement on the the 2:45-3:15am sighting (even to confirm that the vehicle on film was the ever-elusive Elantra). But assuming the vehicle captured on film at that time was carrying the killer, I think the timing was quite possibly coincidental. He could have been aiming for the 3-4am time slot because that seemed like the most opportune time to attack and get out undetected. (If so, he wasn’t wrong).

 

[Arkay]

IMO the killer is not a Glory Seeker, for the simple fact that he HASN'T sought glory.

Of course LE may know much more, but up 'til now we have no evidence that the culprit wanted to make his deeds known far and wide.

No angry manifesto online, no contacting and taunting the media and LE like The Zodiac and Son of Sam, not killing himself after with a note describing why he'd done what he'd done (like Brian Laundrie, although IMO he's in a different category).

IMO he is purely in Survivalist mode. Wanted to get away with it, determined how to optimize this outcome, and so far has done so. Whether he's crying himself to sleep every night (very unlikely), whether he's privately rehashing what he considers his epic triumph (likely), or whether he's moved back into the lifestyle he had before with no one being the wiser (likely), IMO he does not want to be found and does not want his name in headlines and in the annals of murder history, like the Glory Seekers do.

If LE finds him and it turns out he's been trumpeting his deed all over the Dark Web but so far hasn't been caught, then I will admit I am wrong.

ALL JUST MY OPINION.

 

[drmrgrl]

Killing 4 makes this person eligible for the death penalty no? I believe that, and/or shame will keep from coming forward on their own. They will be hated by many no doubt. Just IMO.

IMO, I think “special circumstances” must be imposed upon the crime before the death penalty is enacted. Please correct me if incorrect.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I am hopeful too. I saw a few threads ago that someone suggested re-reading the early reporting. I went back to the New York Times on Nov 14, 2022. I think the mayor was being as accurate, forthright and careful when he stated the following:

"Art Bettge, the mayor of Moscow, Idaho, said in an interview that the authorities were still investigating what had transpired but that the case was being treated as a homicide. He said the authorities did not believe that there was a “perceivable danger to the broader public,” but he declined to say how the victims had been killed or whether a suspect was at large.

“With a crime of this magnitude, it’s very difficult to work through,” Mr. Bettge said, adding that the police needed time to piece together what had transpired. “The overall assessment is that it’s a crime of passion,” he said."

The "crime of passion" statement was criticized & walked back, IIRC. And Bettge has not been a source since they tightened up communication.

Motive is still unknown. Maybe it was a crime of passion, however you want to define that (ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend). Maybe it was a disgruntled neighbor. Maybe it was a serial killer or budding SK. The SM & video recording exposure of these victims gives me pause. So many evil thinkers haunt the web. The Poshmark account of one victim uses her full name.

It was targeted in some fashion, per LE.

The "why" is the reason I continue to follow though I feel that may never be known even after an arrest is made.

Just want to commend the thoughtful discussion here. I appreciate everyone's interest in bringing justice for these victims. There is more good in the world than the crimes we follow would lead us to believe.

God bless the families & friends trying to cope with so much loss in what should be a season of joy.
JMO

 

[x_files]

IMO the killer is not a Glory Seeker, for the simple fact that he HASN'T sought glory.

Of course LE may know much more, but up 'til now we have no evidence that the culprit wanted to make his deeds known far and wide.

No angry manifesto online, no contacting and taunting the media and LE like The Zodiac and Son of Sam, not killing himself after with a note describing why he'd done what he'd done (like Brian Laundrie, although IMO he's in a different category).

IMO he is purely in Survivalist mode. Wanted to get away with it, determined how to optimize this outcome, and so far has done so. Whether he's crying himself to sleep every night (very unlikely), whether he's privately rehashing what he considers his epic triumph (likely), or whether he's moved back into the lifestyle he had before with no one being the wiser (likely), IMO he does not want to be found and does not want the his name in headlines and the annals of murder history like the Glory Seekers do.

If LE finds him and it turns out he's been trumpeting his deed all over the Dark Web but so far hasn't been caught, then I will say I am wrong.

ALL JUST MY OPINION.

I agree he doesn't want fame or glory at all but wanted to get away with it...if he does want fame/glory at least NOT yet...only time will tell if this was a targeted event or if he/she is a serial killer and will strike again.
It takes time for patterns to emerge.

 

[SteveP]

For what it's worth, I have been following cases here for over ten years, and on far more cases that I have followed than not, usually based on what is, or what is not said in communications with the public, people complain that LE have no idea, and are grasping for straws, and the case will never be solved, up until the day an arrest is made. Then they realize what some of us have already learned, and that is that no matter what they tell the public, LE always know far more than they tell, and they always know far more than us armchair sleuths, of which I am one.

Five weeks is hardly a long time for a case of this magnitude to go without an arrest being made, or without some obvious "big" break. I still have full faith in Moscow PD, the Idaho State Police, and the FBI, and I fully believe this case will be solved, and will end with an arrest and conviction of the killer of these four young people. JMO

 

[Rumination1]

From the Moscow Police press release dated 12-25-2022:
ETA: IMO, this is strong evidence of how dedicated the state is to this investigation!

"Additional information related to the investigation:
[.....]
• Gov. Brad Little directed up to $1 million in state emergency funds for the ongoing investigation "

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID
https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24939/12-15-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

How can it be dated 25th ? That’s in the future

 

[Twistinginthewind]

How can it be dated 25th ? That’s in the future

That was a typo, apologies, the press release is from 12-15-2022 - edited post

 

[Rumination1]

I believe the questions that have been expressed are 1. Is the suspect a fellow student ? Most would lean toward the likelihood of a person living off campus and not involved with the University. We saw many examples where the girls had acquaintances off campus (assuming they are not part of campus.

2. Most have asked about the character of the individual. He is assumed very familiar and attached to the use of his knife. He is extremely violent and forceful in accomplishing what he intended. He had expressed rage with multiple stab wounds observed for each victim. He went to the home for a narrow time range. He acted when they would most likely be asleep. He left without being easily detected. He would lack a certain level of remorse and posseses a certain level of entitlement.

Could this person be familiar with this level of violence ?. A person with a criminal record and nonreformable.? Could they have felt that they had to complete the action in all four because the suspect was familiar with the 4. If he acted on his target then the others would be able to identify him. I believe the suspect resolved to kill all four before he arrived. An all or none decision. Suspect was unfamiliar with the two survivors.

Scary that someone so capable of this act when enraged Is still out there

 

[AngTxGal]

IMO, I think “special circumstances” must be imposed upon the crime before the death penalty is enacted. Please correct me if incorrect.

It depends on the state, and Idaho I believe is more like Texas than many other states with regard to the Death Penalty.
After reading on DP in Idaho, it looks like the DP isn’t used as often as it is in Texas. Maybe it is because there isn’t as much crime?
We do know that the DP is being sought in the Lori Vallow Daybell and Chad Daybell case, that is Idaho.
I’m not sure I understand why Idaho would not seek the death penalty in this case where four young people were stabbed to death in their sleep. It appears an obvious DP case if it had happened in Texas.

Death Penalty in Idaho

 

[drmrgrl]

I see that these tire marks may have made a noise from speeding away.

It could be a noise at a specific time that led LE to think the perp was out of the house by 5 or 6 AM
From the previous thread:
If the roommate survivors heard someone walking around upstairs in the early morning, and they could specify the time as earlier than 6AM
And they could eliminate that it wasn’t anyone who was on 1st Floor that made the noises
And no noises were heard coming from upstairs after 6AM
And the time of death of the victims is hours prior to 6AM- such as 3-4AM
Then the noises of someone walking around upstairs was someone in the home, the killer!

JMO

MOO, Investigators can measure tire track width and this also helps identify a car as well. But I’m wondering if the screeching sound in the bodycam video that was supposedly identified as a scream was not a scream, but was in fact, the Elantra departing the crime scene because LE was in the vicinity.

 

[blackbeary]

How can someone commit such a gruesome crime, and disappear?
Hopefully some clues to their identity was left at the scene. I remember seeing the CSI team photographing, and moving around something on the living room floor, this was filmed by a news crew?

 

[PrairieWind]

IMO, I think “special circumstances” must be imposed upon the crime before the death penalty is enacted. Please correct me if incorrect.

I believe in Idaho all first degree murder COULD be punished by death.

 

[drmrgrl]

It depends on the state, and Idaho I believe is more like Texas than many other states with regard to the Death Penalty.
After reading on DP in Idaho, it looks like the DP isn’t used as often as it is in Texas. Maybe it is because there isn’t as much crime?
We do know that the DP is being sought in the Lori Vallow Daybell and Chad Daybell case, that is Idaho.
I’m not sure I understand why Idaho would not seek the death penalty in this case where four young people were stabbed to death in their sleep. It appears an obvious DP case if it had happened in Texas.

Death Penalty in Idaho

Thank you