ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[Stratocaster]

I love cell phone/tower pings smart watch electronic footprints evidence in cases, and find it tells the whole truth.

I know it's on the record about the many late night, consecutive calls to the ex-boyfriend have supposedly been ruled out, but I'm still intrigued about what seems like to me, the urgency of the calls, and if K wanted to do some personal late night chatting with her ex-boyfriend after the bar, I get it.

What I don't get is why is M also calling K's ex-boyfriend in what seems like to me, urgency succession.

I wonder if they had the vibe they were being watched.

MOO

 

[AngTxGal]

This has been my thought from the early days of the investigation. K and or M were the target(s) and killer knew the layout of the house and where they were within it.

• Killer enters through the sliding glass door on the second floor
• Proceeds immediately to the little annex stairs to the third floor
• Highly suspect killer was watching the house in the hour(s) preceding the murders and saw the third floor light on which you could easily see from multiple hidden vantage points given the layout of the neighborhood and woods that surrounds the house. Once the third floor light went out, which was likely shortly after K & M's final calls to JD, killer waits 15-30 minutes so they are asleep then makes his move
• Catches K & M by surprise - in their slightly intoxicated state I believe they were in and having been exhausted from being out all night they are cornered and have no chance
• Killer violently stabs both until they stop moving - may be planning on leaving but hears E and or X get stirred by the noise
• Strongly suspect E exits the bedroom to see what's up and encounters killer. Catches him by surprise and gets several deep stabs in which incapacitated him
• Killer hears X in the bedroom still. It's pitch black & she doesn't know what's happening so she sits up in bed but sees killer moving at her fast
• X knows something is very wrong but is attacked before she can get out of the way and/or reach her phone. She's more fully awake which is why her father reported she had strong defensive wounds
• Killer is facing a petite girl caught by surprise in the back corner of a bedroom and while she puts up a fight, she is quickly overpowered and incapacitated

Killer makes sure both E & X are dead or will be soon and leaves the same away he entered. Perhaps the encounter with E & X spooked him to just get out of there ASAP. Maybe he knew the two others were downstairs, maybe he didn't, but at that point he realizes he's making a ton of noise and commotion and panics and bolts out.

All MOO of course.

Interesting, it seems many have for some time placed E as the one who came out of the room and encountered the killer
Either E hears a noise and goes toward the noise
Or X encounters killer and E goes to aid X

Why? It Is my understanding that there is no evidence E or X was found outside of X room, correct?

We know there is a large amount of blood coming out of the room to the outside wall- so someone bled out in X room, on the floor against the rear wall, off of the bed.

Why do so many seem to think the door to X room was opened and an encounter In the hall?

Is it because some think the survivors saw E or X outside the room?
Or is it because someone has said or rumored E or X is in the hallway?

It has been stated that X had defense wounds, we do not know who else has defense wounds. The info about X defense wounds comes from coroner to X father? Correct?
What if coroner spoke to each family, and E and M family did not share what was said?

If E encountered the killer in the hall way he would have had defense wounds, there woudl have been a struggle. If a struggle did take place- this is the where the odds of collecting killer blood and DNA would be highest. The killer may have suffered injury
E is a big guy, let’s hope he and X got in a few good punches, or kicks, or scratches so this killer is not back in daily life blending- but instead healing or hiding

Just curious- is there evidence somewhere of location of bodies that I’ve missed?
Please share, thx

JMO

 

[LizWords]

Which body cam is this? I have not seen any body cam footage of inside the house. Link please?

The cop looks into one of the first floor bedroom windows and you can clearly see the door knob to that bedroom in that cam footage and there is no code lock...

 

[SRWCF]

I love cell phone/tower pings smart watch electronic footprints evidence in cases, and find it tells the whole truth.

I know it's on the record about the many late night, consecutive calls to the ex-boyfriend have supposedly been ruled out, but I'm still intrigued about what seems like to me, the urgency of the calls, and if K wanted to do some personal late night chatting with her ex-boyfriend after the bar, I get it.

What I don't get is why is M also calling K's ex-boyfriend in what seems like to me, urgency succession.

I wonder if they had the vibe they were being watched.

MOO

Some have speculated that after K called her ex that many times, she might have said, "Hey, M, my ex is ignoring my calls. Maybe if you (or I) call him from your phone he'll pick up." It's possible.

 

[Which_pancake]

Good article with lots of info about the house, occupants and neighborhood.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

At 1122 King Road in Moscow sits a gray six-bedroom, three-bathroom house that continues to be the source of significant national attention. Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month lease that began on June 5, according to the property management firm that oversees the home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Janssen, 32, a former U of I graduate student who said he’s a five-year tenant of an apartment complex adjacent to the rental home, confirmed that fraternity and sorority members appear to dominate the tightly packed neighborhood.

The surrounding Greek life environment contributed to what those familiar with the neighborhood, including Janssen, described in interviews with the Statesman as a loud party culture in the conjoined dead-end streets of King and Queen roads. “This has always been a party place since I’ve lived here — always,” said Sean Hundley, 34, a nearly lifelong Moscow resident, and maintenance person for the adjacent apartment complex. The tenants of the King Road house had received three noise complaints for loud music since August, according to a Statesman review of Moscow police reports. Two came on the same night in early September from separate neighbors in two single-family homes, each about a quarter-mile away, on the street located above the valley where the King Road house sits.

Just a side point, but this article states that "The house originally had two floors, but an owner requested to add the lowest floor in 2000, according to Moscow city permits."

So it was the first floor/basement area that was added on. And perhaps the original "front door" was the 2nd floor/sliding glass door area. This might explain why the address is King Road but it looks like it is on Queen Road, if the front originally faced the opposite direction.

Again, none of this matters I guess, I just found it interesting.

Edit - this article also seems to confirm that the surviving roommates were on the first floor, but I am not sure how they confirmed that.

 

[Diogenetic]

It seems to me that most likely the killer was known to one more of the victims but not a close friend or relation, most likely lives on outskirts of town and a loner not closer to neighboring homes . This would have enabled him to return home without being noticed or seen by other students or roommates. A person that would have been stalking one of them for a while from a far or occasional greetings and imagined a relationship which was rebuffed causing the rage.

I think that is 100x more plausible than the off the wall theories.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Its obvious the perp didn't want to be caught unlike spree killers who often commit suicide.

So if you don't want to be caught, why choose a target with a high probability of being caught?
So it must've been personal and also unplanned.
That's my logic.

Well, I think there are some unspoken nuances here. First, the behavioral profilers I've heard from on this case have not classified this killing as very high-risk. The victims were sleeping and had been drinking, it was very late and dark out, there was no alarm on the house, and it was easy to see into the house/bedrooms from outside. That said, I agree with you that it was brazen to select a home with up to six occupants. While the exact number of occupants may not have been known to the killer, the number of vehicles parked outside of the house would have provided some indication of occupancy. This did not deter the killer.

I don't think that we can conclude solely based on the level of risk that the act had to be personal. I can imagine other scenarios, such as a killer who previously had committed home invasions and/or had killed with a knife before, that would explain his willingness to target 1122 King. Another possible explanation is that the killer's inhibitions were removed by use of a substance or substances. Based on everything I've seen I can't say with confidence that this killing was personal OR unplanned.

 

[Diogenetic]

LE are not the victims and family members of the slain are not the bad guys.

LE is who is responsible for dealing with evidence and the investigation. a small proportion of family members are giving out information they were asked not to share with press and are likely harming investigation. I don't think anyone says that one or two family members are "bad guys." Rather I think they are being egged on and exploited by the media into doing/saying things they should not be doing/saying.
The media wants a news bite, news lead every 12 hours and will do anything they can to get it.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Or maybe the relationship got rosier and somebody else didn’t like it.IMO

The fluidity and relaxed nature of students in the prime of their lives brings a LOT MORE into play than most other homicides. There could be an angle known only to the four deceased. Something unknown to others. JMOO.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Well, I think there are some unspoken nuances here. First, the behavioral profilers I've heard from on this case have not classified this killing as very high-risk. The victims were sleeping and had been drinking, it was very late and dark out, there was no alarm on the house, and it was easy to see into the house/bedrooms from outside. That said, I agree with you that it was brazen to select a home with up to six occupants. While the exact number of occupants may not have been known to the killer, the number of vehicles parked outside of the house would have provided some indication of occupancy. This did not deter the killer.

I don't think that we can conclude solely based on the level of risk that the act had to be personal. I can imagine other scenarios, such as a killer who previously had committed home invasions and/or had killed with a knife before, that would explain his willingness to target 1122 King. Another possible explanation is that the killer's inhibitions were removed by use of a substance or substances. Based on everything I've seen I can't say with confidence that this killing was personal OR unplanned.

Agreed on those fronts. Although I can’t shake the “feeling” he had some prior interaction or interest in the house or the occupants. There are simply so few “random” homicides when compared with planned or premeditated ones. Jmoo

 

[SMK777]

True crime junkies flock to Idaho murder house

The Idaho home where four students were murdered has become an attraction, with one woman saying she visited after hearing about the case on a podcast.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Agreed. If they could only set aside their frustration, anger, and grief for one second they could see that such actions may directly affect and compromise the integrity of the entire investigation. Muddy the already Murky water. There are things which should ONLY BE KNOWN to the KILLER and the INVESTIGATORS. JMOO

 

[TooMuchGun]

Well, I think there are some unspoken nuances here. First, the behavioral profilers I've heard from on this case have not classified this killing as very high-risk. The victims were sleeping and had been drinking, it was very late and dark out, there was no alarm on the house, and it was easy to see into the house/bedrooms from outside. That said, I agree with you that it was brazen to select a home with up to six occupants. While the exact number of occupants may not have been known to the killer, the number of vehicles parked outside of the house would have provided some indication of occupancy. This did not deter the killer.

I don't think that we can conclude solely based on the level of risk that the act had to be personal. I can imagine other scenarios, such as a killer who previously had committed home invasions and/or had killed with a knife before, that would explain his willingness to target 1122 King. Another possible explanation is that the killer's inhibitions were removed by use of a substance or substances. Based on everything I've seen I can't say with confidence that this killing was personal OR unplanned.

if this isn't high risk than nothing is moo

 

[10ofRods]

I think that is 100x more plausible than the off the wall theories.

Statistically, the least "off the wall" theory is one that places the killer closer to the victims, not some loner on the outskirts of town. IMO.

But I am very interested in hearing from WSers which crimes they've followed that did involve a loner-killer (besides Dahmer).

There have to be at least a few. Further, I'd be very curious if any of the loners killed without any signs of sexual assault. If you know of any, please mention (even if the number of victims was lower - let's say at least 2 victims).

 

[Strong1]

Yes, I think this is very plausible.

It is plausible, but also when you are suddenly awoke, you go thru this kind of fog where your trying to figure out where you are and what is going on. So I could see where the murder stabbed the first victim quickly and the other victim didn't have time to react due to being in this fog. I believe at least the first two victims were in the bed after they were stabbed.

 

[rescuemom]

I am recouping from 3 weeks of Covid fog and am soooo far behind that I'll never catch up here and forget about all of the theories being thrown out everywhere else. From what I can gather, there is still very little concrete evidence, right?? I would like some guidance as to what is going on and what is the most popular theory and information site to follow. I'd love to be able to follow along like I do on most cases but this one has been impossible for me to follow. I have some questions and apologize for my ignorance in this case, so please be kind. TIA

Has anything come from the food truck video?

Has anything come of the timeline of E and X the night of the murders??

Is JS or JD a POI?

Is KG family still as involved and have they been a help or a hindrance?

What is the interest in the white car?

Thank you

 

[Aquarian]

This is off the wall— did that Corner Club ever have bands or did the house party’s ever have bands? I hadn’t heard of either, but I was just wondering about other casual acquaintances . In my area it’s very popular in that age group but maybe not in that neck of the woods.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Agreed on those fronts. Although I can’t shake the “feeling” he had some prior interaction or interest in the house or the occupants. There are simply so few “random” homicides when compared with planned or premeditated ones. Jmoo

Oh, I'm quite solidly in camp "planned/premeditated" on this one. At least based on what we know right now. If I learned that the crime scene was a chaotic mess and that there were excessive stab wounds well beyond what was required to kill I would modify my take.

On the question of prior interaction, I think some previous interaction with, or at least knowledge of, one or more of the victims is a real possibility. But it may have been a passing interaction that none of the occupants ascribed any real significance to, or an interaction that was linked to the house rather than to the social lives of the victims. Someone who did maintenance work on the house. Someone who formerly occupied the house. Someone who hated what the house and its occupants represented.

 

[Elley Mae]

Cops spoke with Idaho murder victim on phone prior to quadruple slaying, new footage reveals

Moscow police officers addressed a noise complaint at 1122 King Road on the night of Sept. 1, 2022.

nypost.com

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Well, I think there are some unspoken nuances here. First, the behavioral profilers I've heard from on this case have not classified this killing as very high-risk. The victims were sleeping and had been drinking, it was very late and dark out, there was no alarm on the house, and it was easy to see into the house/bedrooms from outside. That said, I agree with you that it was brazen to select a home with up to six occupants. While the exact number of occupants may not have been known to the killer, the number of vehicles parked outside of the house would have provided some indication of occupancy. This did not deter the killer.

I don't think that we can conclude solely based on the level of risk that the act had to be personal. I can imagine other scenarios, such as a killer who previously had committed home invasions and/or had killed with a knife before, that would explain his willingness to target 1122 King. Another possible explanation is that the killer's inhibitions were removed by use of a substance or substances. Based on everything I've seen I can't say with confidence that this killing was personal OR unplanned.

He harnessed the power and might of 100 men that night due to the immense amount of free-flowing adrenaline and epinephrine. He was pumped up and hellbent. It would have taken a LOT more than 4-6 students to stop him. He unleashed the kraken and HELL along with it. The scene was most likely frenzied and chaotic. He may have also even carried another weapon (gun, pepper spray) in case it was needed beyond the knife. It wasn’t. He didn’t. It’s exceedingly difficult to conceive such a heinous act for a morally upright and law abiding citizen. But for a killer, one well practiced by all outward appearances, it’s a simple walk in the park. JMOHO