ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[z0mer]

Cops spoke with Idaho murder victim on phone prior to quadruple slaying, new footage reveals

Moscow police officers addressed a noise complaint at 1122 King Road on the night of Sept. 1, 2022.

nypost.com

Old news.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Oh, I'm quite solidly in camp "planned/premeditated" on this one. At least based on what we know right now. If I learned that the crime scene was a chaotic mess and that there were excessive stab wounds well beyond what was required to kill I would modify my take.

On the question of prior interaction, I think some previous interaction with, or at least knowledge of, one or more of the victims is a real possibility. But it may have been a passing interaction that none of the occupants ascribed any real significance to, or an interaction that was linked to the house rather than to the social lives of the victims. Someone who did maintenance work on the house. Someone who formerly occupied the house. Someone who hated what the house and its occupants represented.

Yes. Right along those lines. To go one further, I contend they reside within close proximity to the home. Or they stay with someone who lives within this area. I also believe they live within the “line of sight” of the home. It was in their crosshairs. They could have easily monitored any activity from afar with binos or a scope. Jmoho

 

[Aquarian]

Statistically, the least "off the wall" theory is one that places the killer closer to the victims, not some loner on the outskirts of town. IMO.

But I am very interested in hearing from WSers which crimes they've followed that did involve a loner-killer (besides Dahmer).

There have to be at least a few. Further, I'd be very curious if any of the loners killed without any signs of sexual assault. If you know of any, please mention (even if the number of victims was lower - let's say at least 2 victims).

Funny, I pulled out my John Douglas book earlier perusing to see what information I might Helen relevant to this case. So far, nada to your request.
Source: Into to the darkness

 

[Diogenetic]

We don't know that one of the survivors wasn't the target. I don't think it is lily but there is no evidence that it is excluded. Perhaps their doors were the only ones locked and killer did not know who slept where but did not want to be bashing doing doors -- especially after finding pairs and one occupant being male which raises difficulty.
I doubt it is the case, but my point is we simply don't even know that for certain.

If this is someone on their outer circle of acquaintances of four or six people, those are big circles aggregating to a couple hundred people.

there are 350 million people in the US. If 99.9% have a functioning sense of empathy, a functioning self control mechanism, like you and I have, that is still a ginormous number of people who have serious problems and are capable of murders for all kinds of reasons.

This is a very tough job for investigators. Just consider for example that one can not assume it is suspicious if a person left town. Huge proportions of college kids leave school for holidays, be they going home or taking a trip somewhere. Considered the forensics. it is not a kitchen knife or a gas station folding knife, it is a big knife designed for killing people with massive trauma from a single stroke and with a gigantic hilt, easily could have resulted in zero cut or even scratch on the killer even if he delivered 20 maximum power stabs. On top of that the house is probably swimming with DNA from scores if not hundreds of people.

Even the big recent clue, the car, is more likely unrelated than related. In the DC area we had a crazy search for white van or white box truck identified as of interest by investigators. It drew thousand of calls to tip lines. Hundreds of people saw a white van being used suspiciously exactly when and where the sniper attacks occurred. As it turned out those snipers never once possessed or used a white van. They used a blue Chevy sedan the entire time. Of course police should be aggressively following the white elantra lead, but this goes to the fact that these are more often dead ends than not.

 

[10ofRods]

This is off the wall— did that Corner Club ever have bands or did the house party’s ever have bands? I hadn’t heard of either, but I was just wondering about other casual acquaintances . In my area it’s very popular in that age group but maybe not in that neck of the woods.

There's a guy who has walked by the Corner Club and put up video of it on youtube. It surprised me, and its main form of entertainment seems to be a kind of table top shuffle board. No signs of a stage or anything denoting live music. Internet searches do not turn up any evidence of life music there. It's a cinder block building with basically no views, no windows, at the edge of the downtown district. The people who were inside during this person's pass-by late at night are all middle aged. There isn't good standing room near the bar, either.

Google map photos show a lot of sports memorabilia, and a wider range of age groups (but the youtube guy is there later at night, the google photos are from various times).

The videos on Google maps show the "middle aged" demographic again.

The house at 1122 King Road is pretty small to host a band (unless outside). The noise complaint was about recorded music, apparently.

 

[x_files]

The police claim there's no connect between this crime and the similar incident that occurred near Salem, Oregon last year. How they can conclude this I have no idea, since whoever committed the crime in Idaho is a completely unknown entity. I would check student records for any student who has transferred from a school near Salem to UI in Moscow. The two crimes are too similar to be dismissed out-of-hand.

The LE can say this and still privately investigate they do NOT have to inform the public of what they are thinking or doing. Until they catch the killer or killers they probably have left options to investigate wide open.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

if this isn't high risk than nothing is moo

Well, one scenario that would be higher risk would be targeting a home where there's a high probability the occupants have a firearm. I think it was a safe bet that the occupants of 1122 King did not.

 

[10ofRods]

Funny, I pulled out my John Douglas book earlier perusing to see what information I might Helen relevant to this case. So far, nada to your request.
Source: Into to the darkness

Thank you for trying. I'm not as good at remembering tons of cases, the way some of you are. I have my forensics books out too. The two main kinds of serial killer types are 1) sociopaths and 2) schizophrenics. These two categories in no way account for all serial type killings (which this killing isn't).

When women are killed, it's usually someone who knows them or a sex offender.

This case simply does not fall into any standard categories.

 

[Down To Earth]

The police bodycam footage is from September 1st, two and a half months before the murders, when police responded to a noise complaint.

There doesn’t seem to have been a party at the house the night of the murder, as all the six had been out in different pairs, and returned at various times in the middle of the night.

The bodycam footage OP was referring to was from the night of the murders. Here is a link:

Idaho murders: Police release bodycam video from night of killings

Idaho officials released body camera footage Thursday of a police stop recorded around the same time four college students were stabbed to death and near the crime scene.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Cortne]

Cops spoke with Idaho murder victim on phone prior to quadruple slaying, new footage reveals

Moscow police officers addressed a noise complaint at 1122 King Road on the night of Sept. 1, 2022.

nypost.com

I hadnt seen this. Thanks so much.

 

[Diogenetic]

Statistically, the least "off the wall" theory is one that places the killer closer to the victims, not some loner on the outskirts of town. IMO.

But I am very interested in hearing from WSers which crimes they've followed that did involve a loner-killer (besides Dahmer).

There have to be at least a few. Further, I'd be very curious if any of the loners killed without any signs of sexual assault. If you know of any, please mention (even if the number of victims was lower - let's say at least 2 victims).

That is not true. I was agreeing to a poster who was talking about physical home location, not circle of acquaintance. As I wrote, in terms of social context he is statistically most likely in their extended circles of acquaintances. And that is even more likely since the very close handful of friends have probably already been subject to deep investigation by LE

 

[AngTxGal]

Well, I think there are some unspoken nuances here. First, the behavioral profilers I've heard from on this case have not classified this killing as very high-risk. The victims were sleeping and had been drinking, it was very late and dark out, there was no alarm on the house, and it was easy to see into the house/bedrooms from outside. That said, I agree with you that it was brazen to select a home with up to six occupants. While the exact number of occupants may not have been known to the killer, the number of vehicles parked outside of the house would have provided some indication of occupancy. This did not deter the killer.

I don't think that we can conclude solely based on the level of risk that the act had to be personal. I can imagine other scenarios, such as a killer who previously had committed home invasions and/or had killed with a knife before, that would explain his willingness to target 1122 King. Another possible explanation is that the killer's inhibitions were removed by use of a substance or substances. Based on everything I've seen I can't say with confidence that this killing was personal OR unplanned.

These are MOO- what should be added? Changed? To understand Risk
Victim Risk
low- children, elderly, disabled, small women, drugs/ alcohol, sleep
high- young, healthy, athletic, large male, awake, trained

Location Risk
low pop- rural area with distant neighbors, noises not heard, entry and exit not visible, easy layout short distance of travel
high pop- dense population with near neighbors, noises heard, entry and exit visible, complex layout long distance of travel

Timing Risk/ Light vs Dark
night- darkness, low movement, people asleep
day- light, high movement times- people going to work or coming home

Weapon Risk
low- distance and speed- gun
med- sharp weapon, blunt force weapon
high- manual strangulation, bare fists

Risk is more complicated than low and high?
Victim- low young women alcohol
Location- high populated, entry/ exit not visible in rear
Timing- low darkness, people asleep
Weapon- medium risk speed and sharp

 

[gliving]

This pic I wanted to share is too large to upload here but click on the link to view. I think the pic gives a good perspective as to 1122's placement in the neighborhood. Look how close it is to other dwellings. 1122 in the upper righthand corner. If you right click on photo and open the pic in a new browser window, it can be enlarged even more.

UPDATE: Four students have been confirmed dead in Moscow homicide

 

[jumpingjackflash]

These are MOO- what should be added? Changed? To understand Risk
Victim Risk
low- children, elderly, disabled, small women, drugs/ alcohol, sleep
high- young, healthy, athletic, large male, awake, trained

Location Risk
low pop- rural area with distant neighbors, noises not heard, entry and exit not visible, easy layout short distance of travel
high pop- dense population with near neighbors, noises heard, entry and exit visible, complex layout long distance of travel

Timing Risk/ Light vs Dark
night- darkness, low movement, people asleep
day- light, high movement times- people going to work or coming home

Weapon Risk
low- distance and speed- gun
med- sharp weapon, blunt force weapon
high- manual strangulation, bare fists

Risk is more complicated than low and high?
Victim- low young women alcohol
Location- high populated, entry/ exit not visible in rear
Timing- low darkness, people asleep
Weapon- medium risk speed and sharp

Does firearm ownership factor into victim risk as well?

 

[10ofRods]

That is not true. I was agreeing to a poster who was talking about physical home location, not circle of acquaintance. As I wrote, in terms of social context he is statistically most likely in their extended circles of acquaintances. And that is even more likely since the very close handful of friends have probably already been subject to deep investigation by LE

Oh, so you think that if the person has been discovered by LE to be in an inner circle, that they would tell us? I don't think so. But, for physical home location of killer vis-a-vis their victims, we still find that when women are killed, it's by someone they know fairly well. If E was the target, then of course this theory doesn't work.

Sorry for not realizing you were speaking of physical house context - but there, I disagree as well. Whoever did this was in the neighborhood frequently, probably had been in the house several times, and knew its rather peculiar lay-out. Person knew which paths could be used for escape/less detection. I don't think the killer lived off on the edge of town or in another town.

I don't think it's an "extended circle" of people among whom this killer is going to be found (a friend of a friend of a friend) but that's just a guess.

I do think LE has a definite idea of who did this and has, from day 1 or close to it. I just think it's very hard to find the evidence for an arrest warrant.

MOO.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

The police bodycam footage is from September 1st, two and a half months before the murders, when police responded to a noise complaint.

There doesn’t seem to have been a party at the house the night of the murder, as all the six had been out in different pairs, and returned at various times in the middle of the night.

I mean the bodycam footage of the kids drinking in the field

 

[OrlandoJames]

Oh, so you think that if the person has been discovered by LE to be in an inner circle, that they would tell us? I don't think so. But, for physical home location of killer vis-a-vis their victims, we still find that when women are killed, it's by someone they know fairly well. If E was the target, then of course this theory doesn't work.

Sorry for not realizing you were speaking of physical house context - but there, I disagree as well. Whoever did this was in the neighborhood frequently, probably had been in the house several times, and knew its rather peculiar lay-out. Person knew which paths could be used for escape/less detection. I don't think the killer lived off on the edge of town or in another town.

I don't think it's an "extended circle" of people among whom this killer is going to be found (a friend of a friend of a friend) but that's just a guess.

I do think LE has a definite idea of who did this and has, from day 1 or close to it. I just think it's very hard to find the evidence for an arrest warrant.

MOO.

Out of interest, why do you believe this?

 

[Diogenetic]

On the question of prior interaction, I think some previous interaction with, or at least knowledge of, one or more of the victims is a real possibility. But it may have been a passing interaction that none of the occupants ascribed any real significance to, or an interaction that was linked to the house rather than to the social lives of the victims. Someone who did maintenance work on the house. Someone who formerly occupied the house. Someone who hated what the house and its occupants represented.

Most likely is same social class, so probably a fellow student. Anything is possible, could be landscaper or it could be white collar professional with a family nearby. I think it will be a student at that or another school

But I do agree that it is very likely something spooked one or two of them before hand. Maybe a vehicle with drive perhaps observering them seen several times in preceding week/s. maybe a door found tampered with. This could explain both hoodie guy who I think was more of a chaperone than malign presence, apparently watching out for them. And it could explain early am calls to ex boyfriend, if say they though they saw someone in woods behind.

 

[Diogenetic]

He harnessed the power and might of 100 men that night due to the immense amount of free-flowing adrenaline and epinephrine. He was pumped up and hellbent. It would have taken a LOT more than 4-6 students to stop him. He unleashed the kraken and HELL along with it. The scene was most likely frenzied and chaotic. He may have also even carried another weapon (gun, pepper spray) in case it was needed beyond the knife. It wasn’t. He didn’t. It’s exceedingly difficult to conceive such a heinous act for a morally upright and law abiding citizen. But for a killer, one well practiced by all outward appearances, it’s a simple walk in the park. JMOHO

Don't need power of 100 men to kill four sleeping, some likely still somewhat intoxicated people, three of them small women, with a combat knife. One person can do that.

 

[Nila Aella]

This is a very interesting theory and one that had not crossed my mind.

Thank you! In my mind it might explain the two downstairs (if they did not interact with the upper four) and it might also account for all those calls (wanting to share what they learned/heard) MOO