ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[RoadRageKills]

On the Sept. 1 body cam footage, the bottom-floor right apartment appeared to be unoccupied. I'd love to find out whether it was unoccupied on the night of the murder. IMO it would be the most plausible hiding space, if that's what happened.

By a now approved video, linked at the bottom. Gives great detail on the layout & where the roommates may have been sleeping the night of the murders.. The video states that it is possible that a roommate had moved upstairs as she is seen taking photos in the 2nd floor bedroom. It is right by the stairs... which would mean the killer would have to walk right past her room to get to E & X. It would also mean they would have to walk past the room in order to get to the 3rd floor room, where K & M were sleeping. It is possible the killer didn't know they had moved to the 2nd fl or that they camped out in the 1st floor room with the roommate. JMO
Edited: to add link to video

 

[Jawds78]

By a now approved video at the beginning of this thread... the video states that it is possible that a roommate had moved upstairs as she is seen taking photos in the 2nd floor bedroom. It is right by the stairs... which would mean the killer would have to walk right past her room to get to E & X. It would also mean they would have to walk past the room in order to get to the 3rd floor room, where K & M were sleeping. It is possible the killer didn't know they had moved to the 2nd fl or that they camped out in the 1st floor room with the roommate. JMO

I thought it was pretty established the girls were on the first floor with doors locked. However I'm not sure if their placement is pertinent with what we know so far. I do wonder if they heard/ saw things that will be later used for identifying the suspect/event or in the actual trial. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

The one where Kaylee came out was from October 16th. Just FYI for anyone looking for it.

Thank you - I was looking for it. Couldn't get it out of my mind last night. I will say that after viewing it, Kaylee is more real to me, and her personality is clearer in my mind. She looks so worried as that body cam video comes to an end. She steps up and takes responsibility for the incident while the young man in the video takes the earliest opportunity to go inside and get off the policeman's camera. IMO, that young man is the same young man as shown in the Sept 1 video (not a known person in this story, at least not to me) - that is, one of the two young men who try to "handle" that situation.

\

 

[10ofRods]

I thought it was pretty established the girls were on the first floor with doors locked. However I'm not sure if their placement is pertinent with what we know so far. I do wonder if they heard/ saw things that will be later used for identifying the suspect/event or in the actual trial. JMO

If you can find where this is established, I would appreciate it. I see one reporter (local) establishing it and then dozens of other news outlets reporting that same information. The reporter in question does not name her source. Says it's "the police" but she's on site, near the house, that day. No official word from the investigation about who was where. We cannot sleuth the surviving roommates, keep that in mind.

I don't know if they heard anything, I am confused by the number and type of cars that are shown at the house in the drone video, there are lots of loose ends dating back to the first week of the investigation - upon which LE has not commented, and I figure there's a reason why they haven't.

I am also positive that the roommates have been thoroughly questioned regarding everything they know or can remember about their time living in 1122 King Road.

BTW, just as an aside, there's no confirmation that it is BF who is in the body cam footage and, indeed, people who have done side by side comparisons of BF and that person on youtube have made me doubt that it is in fact BF. I'd say that unless someone can come up with MSM or LE confirmation that the person is BF, we should stop saying it as if it's fact.

 

[flowershop]

A few ideas…I know it’s too long.

1-I think that the murderer lives within sight of the house and knows the interior of the house very well.

2- Since the day after the murders is Sunday, I think that he was working at a job having a standart off-day as Sunday and that's why he chose Saturday night.

3- I think he is a smart person and has calculated the escape plan after the murder, determined the places where he would get rid of his clothes and the murder weapon, and the car he used avoiding the cameras while managing this.

4-I think he escaped from the back of the house and got into his stolen parked car(white Hyundai imo) , then got rid of the car without being caught on camera and returned to his house by public transportation the next day. Or maybe before the murders he took his own car to the place where he switched the cars.

5- I believe that the cameras in the public transportation and the entrance and exit camera records of the neighbors houses and cars of Saturday and Sunday were checked .

6- My guess is he knew the people in the house from the neighborhood, he had been in the house before, he was pissed off due to the noise and loud parties, and he had serious psychological problems and had taken drugs before the murders. In his sick mindset, he targeted the house and its occupants .. The LE statement ‘’ targeting the house ’’ supports this view , in my opinion .

7-I think he started with K and M then E and X. I don’t think he would take the risk of waking up both above and below residents by starting from the middle floor.

8-In my opinion, people who live nearby and have a record of car theft and use heavy prescription psychological drugs should also be on the radar.

I have not seen mention of public transportation anywhere in these threads before. Interesting. A daily bus route and schedule is here:

SMART Transit – Regional Public Transportation

It appears the bus begins to run at 6:40 am.

 

[Stephen2022]

On the Sept. 1 body cam footage, the bottom-floor right apartment appeared to be unoccupied. I'd love to find out whether it was unoccupied on the night of the murder. IMO it would be the most plausible hiding space, if that's what happened.

Law enforcement mentioned the dog was in an unoccupied bedroom

 

[Counttrarian]

Worth adding to those who keep insisting that only people who lack success with women etc. commit crimes against women, the statistics show the opposite.
(Recommend the site for those interested in learning more about gender-based violence, or education for those in the field)
The Scope of the Problem: Intimate Partner Homicide Statistics

"From 1980 to 2008, nearly 1 out of 5 murder victims were killed by an intimate partner (Cooper & Smith, 2011). In fact, available research shows that women are more likely to be killed by an intimate partner (husband, boyfriend, same-sex partner, or ex) than by anyone else (Catalano, 2013; Violence Policy Center, 2015)."

Open to seeing stats that show otherwise, but until they're posted might I humbly suggest we keep an open mind/move on and consider all possibilities when trying to solve this particularly brutal crime.
all imho

 

[Ozoner]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are men without sexual experience more likely to commit mass stabbing murders? I'm trying to find this statistic and not finding a correlation.

<modsnip: Discussing other member and moderation is not allowed>

There is no such correlation that I'm aware of.

There have been cases of mass murder by incels, but they have not resembled this crime very closely. The two crimes that come to mind right away are 1) the École Polytechnique massacre of 1989 in which Marc Lépine killed fourteen women and wounded ten others (along with four men) and 2) the Isla Vista killings of 2014 in which incel Elliot Rodger stabbed three men to death and then shot dead two women and one man; he also injured fourteen people by striking them with a motor vehicle.

Both of those crimes were committed very publicly. Both perpetrators wrote manifestos of sorts in order to air their grievances, and both committed suicide following their crimes. Neither expected to get away with his murders. Both wanted people to know the motivations for their crimes.

Most mass murderers expect to be caught. The Moscow, Idaho, killings are unlike most mass murders. I don't believe that this crime was planned as a mass murder; I believe that the perpetrator intended to kill one or two of the victims and that the other victims were collateral damage.

Not all mass murderers are incels. Stephen Paddock, the perpetrator of the 2018 Las Vegas massacre, was a twice-divorced man with a live-in girlfriend. He may not have been a ladies' man, but he certainly wasn't a virgin.

James Huberty, the perpetrator of the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre of 1984, was married with children.

 

[Ghostwheel]

You had mentioned a conversation possibly getting out of hand, then had described many situations where someone may come over to have a conversation with the residents about various topics That could get out of hand.
I was curious if he went home to get the knife, you mentioned he could carry it on him without appearing odd.

I was asking when in the timeline you thought this could take place.
Would you think all the victims were there awake together, or after they went to sleep.
Do you think it was with two of the roommates, and they were killed first? Then the perp waited in the home for the others to arrive home?

I’m not attempting to shoot down your thoughts, I had not considered that someone could have come to the door and they had let him in. I’m trying to understand.

JMO

I see, when I said "came to talk", you read " came to the door and requested entry to talk" like normal people do.

I meant "decided they wanted to talk and gained entry any way they could when they decided they wanted to talk". There was no regard for courtesy, just that this unstable person decided they had to address whatever was on their mind right then.

In this theory, if they needed to talk to one of the girls, they arrived after they knew the girls had been picked up for home. We don't see all the cars in the grub truck vicinity, could have been there. Maybe was stealing up for what to say when lights went out so went in before they fell asleep (thought in his/her head). But the girls were passed out cold, did not respond. Rage for being ignored could happen.

 

[SMK777]

I strongly feel that LE doesn’t see it necessary in the case. IMO they have a POI. They have evidence. Therefore there is no need for a monetary reward. They just need the missing puzzle piece(s) to wrap it up all nice and neat for a solid case.

EBM to correct typo

Do you think they’re being untruthful (for the good of the investigation) when they say they don’t know where this person is?

 

[Jawds78]

If you can find where this is established, I would appreciate it. I see one reporter (local) establishing it and then dozens of other news outlets reporting that same information. The reporter in question does not name her source. Says it's "the police" but she's on site, near the house, that day. No official word from the investigation about who was where. We cannot sleuth the surviving roommates, keep that in mind.

I don't know if they heard anything, I am confused by the number and type of cars that are shown at the house in the drone video, there are lots of loose ends dating back to the first week of the investigation - upon which LE has not commented, and I figure there's a reason why they haven't.

I am also positive that the roommates have been thoroughly questioned regarding everything they know or can remember about their time living in 1122 King Road.

BTW, just as an aside, there's no confirmation that it is BF who is in the body cam footage and, indeed, people who have done side by side comparisons of BF and that person on youtube have made me doubt that it is in fact BF. I'd say that unless someone can come up with MSM or LE confirmation that the person is BF, we should stop saying it as if it's fact.

I was also, kinda trying to point out that detailing every detail of the roommates is moot because we know so little (and possibly for good reason, imo). I really haven't discussed any of the videos yet because I really feel human nature is so different from person to person and once again, we know so little about what was happening during. I Definitely think once all is known, each piece will be more clear. Thank you for your insight. All IMO

 

[Diddian]

Law enforcement mentioned the dog was in an unoccupied bedroom

LE reported the dog was found somewhere other than where the crime occurred. They did not specify a particular location.

So, the dog may have been found in an unoccupied bedroom, a bathroom, the laundry room, or the mechanical/furnace room (under the assumption the crime DID occur in the kitchen, living room, 2nd to 3rd floor stairs, MM's room, and XK's room, since the perpetrator would have been in all those locations).

 

[sds71]

Exclusive | Vilified ex-boyfriend of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves is devastated: family

Speaking publicly for the first time, Brooke Miller said that her nephew, Jack DuCoeur, is devastated by Kaylee Goncalves’ murder.

nypost.com

 

[NuttMegg]

LE reported the dog was found somewhere other than where the crime occurred. They did not specify a particular location.

So, the dog may have been found in an unoccupied bedroom, a bathroom, the laundry room, or the mechanical/furnace room (under the assumption the crime DID occur in the kitchen, living room, 2nd to 3rd floor stairs, MM's room, and XK's room, since the perpetrator would have been in all those locations).

He could have been with one of the unharmed roommates.

 

[Madison1905]

the difference of an Elantra and a Prius and Nissan Altima is pretty obvious

 

[10ofRods]

Well, I will respectfully disagree..... Moscow is only 25,000 population. I live in a city of over 60,000 and we have had nowhere near the amount of murders and such. And when you factor in the extremist groups, it is way off the charts in that area of Idaho.

Yeah, I started to compile my own list of human on human violence in Moscow, including suicides, and I got a bigger total. Three cases are controversial to this day regarding MoD, judging by various comments in local papers.

Moscow had 3 people killed by a sniper in 2007 and 3 people dead in a Moscow spree shooting in 2015. (Source: Why the college town of Moscow, Idaho, is not as peaceful as you think )

That article is an interesting read. SPECULATION (IMOO), the two Paradise Creek deaths were possibly not accidental drownings, IMO, but I am not the coroner. I just think the decision was made very quickly and that the autopsy results are ambiguous. Let it be said I am questioning the coroner and hope the latest "accidental drowning" gets new eyes on it, some day.

It's interesting that Moscow has had THREE incidents of mass murder in the past 15 years. My town has not had a single one (nor has my home town - which is the size of Moscow). A more apt comparison would be the college town where I work - which has also not had a single mass murder either on campus or off, despite being about 3X bigger than Moscow.

I have no explanation for these differences, just theories. Not counting the accidental drownings, Moscow ID had 15 murders or suicides within a 21 year period - a bit higher than average, but in most years, Moscow is relatively safe.

I searched ' How to become confident with a knife

I searched ' How to be Confident with a Knife ' It only shows cooking skills. I know about trap shooting, because I love to watch it, but I've never seen sport courses to learn knife skills in combat , killing, type situation , how does one train or practice to gain confidence, and take out your opponent/ victims. Can anyone explain please? I'm hear to learn from the wise variety of guests on Websleuths.

There are tons of videos online, mostly on youtube. Or a person can take a knife training course. The USMC handbook (and videos) on use of a knife in personal defense are popular (the video has 2.7 million views). I would use different search terms, though. I don't think any of these videos are for "sport" or "confidence."

There are also places one can go to learn to throw knives and to handle knives more confidently, but naturally, these businesses do not teach people how to kill. But there are tons of videos from both the USMC and from paramilitary organizations that are easy to find and have many views. I'm not sure I can give search terms and be within ToS.

I can also add that, in my own upbringing, I started using my own knife by around age 6-7 and learning to do more with it each summer, as we camped, was just part of growing up. None of my knife training involved self-defense, but did leave me confident handling knives. Knives for self-defense or for personal safety are a thing, especially the Ka-Bar style knives which have many videos associated with them.

 

[Tillyjames]

Thank you - I was looking for it. Couldn't get it out of my mind last night. I will say that after viewing it, Kaylee is more real to me, and her personality is clearer in my mind. She looks so worried as that body cam video comes to an end. She steps up and takes responsibility for the incident while the young man in the video takes the earliest opportunity to go inside and get off the policeman's camera. IMO, that young man is the same young man as shown in the Sept 1 video (not a known person in this story, at least not to me) - that is, one of the two young men who try to "handle" that situation.

\

The young man didn’t live there though (in the first video) so it really wasn’t his responsibility

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover retrieved from city lot

Family lawyer Shanon Gray picked up slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves' silver Ranger Rover from Moscow, Idaho, police on Thursday, nearly six weeks after her murder.

www.foxnews.com

EXCLUSIVE: An unidentified man retrieved Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover on Thursday afternoon from a Moscow city storage lot.

"She just bought a brand-new vehicle for herself, her first vehicle," Kaylee's mother Kristi Goncalves told Fox News' Lawrence Jones last month. "She went home Friday to literally go show off her new vehicle. She was like, ‘Maddie has to see my new ride. Like, she has to see this.’ And she was talking to Maddie the whole time going back and forth between the car she was buying."

[...]

"She was a hard worker, always having a full time job on top of her studies even in high school," according to her obituary. "Kaylee loved the nicer things in life and took a lot of pride in buying those things for herself."

This certainly gives a different picture of things. She worked full-time both in high school and all through college? That doesn't sound much like the party type to me. When would there be any time? MOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Do you think they’re being untruthful (for the good of the investigation) when they say they don’t know where this person is?

I don't recall seeing that they don't know (or even suspect) who it is . Under FAQs on the website, it says
"At this time, there are no named suspects, no arrests and no weapon has been found."

The most recent update says "No suspects have been indentified".

None of that says they don't know who it is. LE might or might not have an idea and are trying to prove it, but they haven't identified or named who it could be. Semantics matter sometimes.

 

[Tillyjames]

This certainly gives a different picture of things. She worked full-time both in high school and all through college? That doesn't sound much like the party type to me. When would there be any time? MOO

Yeah this doesn’t make sense. I don’t know any high school students with full-time jobs, and it’s impossible to have a full-time in college as a full-time student. Her obituary does state that but it seems a little confusing to me MOO