ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[SMK777]

IMO yes I do, and for good reason. Why would they say otherwise?

Right, that’s what I was hoping. Otherwise it would mean that they haven’t really made much progress in 40 days.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Wow!! Someone here had posted that there was not a lot of coverage in Idaho of these murders. It is true, if you choose the Idaho Capital Sun.

In the Idaho Capital Sun there is an article on the murders is on page 8 from Home. Go to the bottom click Read More and you can choose from pages 1-179 +

In addition, I put these words into the search bar for the Idaho Capital Sun
Moscow murders- Idaho University murders
The article on pg 8 is the ONLY article that came up In the Idaho Capital Sun search!

How prominent is the Idaho Capital Sun compared to other online newspapers?
The article is a repost from Nov 29, 2022.

University of Idaho considering scenarios for spring semester as murder investigations continues​

BY: KEVIN RICHERT - NOVEMBER 29, 2022 3:46 PM​

The Idaho Capital Sun is excellent, but you need to understand it’s mission, which isn’t crime:

“The Idaho Capital Sun is a nonprofit news organization delivering accountability reporting on state government, politics and policy in the Gem state.

As longtime Idahoans ourselves, we understand the challenges and opportunities facing Idaho. We provide in-depth reporting on legislative and state policy, health care, tax policy, the environment, Idaho’s explosive population growth and more.

Our mission is relentless investigative journalism that sheds light on how decisions in Boise and beyond are made and how they affect everyday Idahoans. We aim to tell untold stories and provide data, context and analysis on the issues that matter most throughout the state…”
About - Idaho Capital Sun

FWIW, I have a lot of extended family in Spokane, WA (my better half’s maternal family go back 3-4 generations — farming), and they all know about the mass murders here. They don’t know details, because there are so few known, but they all know the big picture & are as excited as anyone else for an arrest to be made.

Moo.

EBM to add: the OP’s point about extremism on the rise in Idaho is valid.

 

[NuttMegg]

All IMHO - From the beginning there was and is an assumption that K and M were BFFs. They may have been close, longtime friends woven into each other’s families, loved each other dearly, but not really BFFs.

They pledged different sororities. IMO, that is a big deal. Close like a family ‘sister’ is very different than the secrecy between sorority ‘sisters.’ K and M, by sorority definition, had to have many secrets from each other.

All IMOO. Source - life experience; lived and worked in the collegiate Greek system, assigned to many campuses in many states.

Sororities and fraternities are extremely private and incredulously secretive and confidential beyond understanding unless you experience it. Huge secrecy in Greek life, with loyalties, rivalries, territories, intricate social and ritual details. Greek life is not one big group. Each specific organization is unique, a subset of Greek life, with its own associated internal/external/local groups/friends. Generally each is a ‘chapter’ of a national organization, like Elks or Moose lodges, except the members are fulltime students, young, and sworn-in for life.

This crime has a subculture unknown to most people. This case may not be about the friends’ closeness, but the gaps between them, JMO.

Just information: House occupants included 3 (M,X,B) in same sorority, M was B’s big sis, and 1 (K) in a different sorority. E’s sister is in another different sorority. E and brother/H were in same fraternity. The young men associated with the housemates, IMO, appear to be associated with a different fraternity. An accident earlier this year was the eve of an event for that fraternity. Who was there? Are/were JD or A in a fraternity? M’s BF? Did anyone quit a sorority or fraternity recently? Are any of the chapters on campus on any kind of ‘notice’ or warning? Many IG, venmo, activity with variance and Greek nuances. The 6-degrees from crime to assailant may be between who is known, details of interview, evidence, all the technology accounts, social media accounts, calls, texts. How are they connected or disconnected and where was loyalty damaged?

If the assailant feels justified, then he could have acted normal when entering and leaving, and continues to act normal. So, who is acting differently? Who can, but can’t talk? Who was where, when, but wasn’t? Who was with whom, but wasn’t? Who told whom, but didn't? ...

Not my theory, just sharing thoughts for consideration. All IMOO. BBM

We can't really get into the lives of the friends of the victims, nor of the unharmed kids.

I was in a national sorority. and it was nothing like you describe. It was a step up socially, a way to meet the frat guys. A way to have instant friends in a huge U where otherwise the dating scene was more challenging.

 

[ktm44]

location of dog in unoccupied bedroom at time law enforcement
arrived.

Police address stalker claims, victim's dog in killing of Idaho students

Moscow Police added context to claims that Idaho student victim Kaylee Goncalvez told friends she had a stalker.

www.courttv.com

Thanks.

 

[Nila Aella]

That is incorrect. LE indicated the dog was in a room that was not where the murders had taken place but I have not read any statement indicating it was a bedroom.

Per MPD:

"During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed."

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24875/12-05-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

 

[Diddian]

Just for the sake of clarity...

This is from the latest press release on 12/19:
There have been numerous media inquiries about a 1999 double stabbing in Pullman, Washington, and the 2021 double stabbing (with one death) in Salem, Oregon. While these cases share similarities with the King Street homicides, there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related.

There is no reference at all made to the June 13, 2020 Sandra Ladd murder in Washougal, Washington, which also occured on the 13th, between 3:00 and 4:00am.

Saying there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related is not the same as saying that the cases have been specifically declared unrelated.

I still see a pattern here:

Sandra Ladd - June 13, 2020
Travis & Jamilyn Juetten - August 13, 2021
XEM&K - November 13, 2022

Likely attacked in bed, while asleep, with a knife. All the incidents happened between 3 and 4 a.m. on the 13th of the month, 14 & 15 months apart.

As I recall, the stabbings of the Juettens occurred the night before they were to leave for a trip to Hawaii. The person who was going to housesit/petsit stayed over the night the stabbings occurred, was not attacked, and was able to call 911. Since they had engaged a house sitter, I presume they would not have requested a USPS "mail hold" while they were gone, but they might have done so.

I also recall reading in Sandra Ladd's obituary that she loved to travel to Hawaii, but there was no mention of upcoming travel.

KG had traveled (somewhat spontaneously it seems) from where she had been staying (with her family) in Coeur d'Alene to Moscow to show MM her new Range Rover and to attend a sorority party (according to her family). I don't know, but presume that she declared her intended trip on social media. I also don't know, but presume she would not have requested her own mail be held while she was gone since it would likely be received at her family's home mailbox and they would be there to receive it. I do wonder whether she had ordered mail forwarding from Moscow to Coeur d'Alene since she was residing there.

I bring this up because it occurs to me that there MIGHT POSSIBLY be some commonality in terms of each of these victims associated with social media announcement of upcoming travel or notification to USPS or some other vendor about upcoming travel or moves. Maybe a long shot, but probably a tidbit to keep in mind.

ETA: MOO. I'm essentially wondering about this out loud (on the electronic screen).

 

[Ghostwheel]

Well, saying that there are things “we just don’t know at this point” after being directly asked if the culprit is still in Idaho or out of the area means they basically don’t have anyone under surveillance. Unless they’re being untruthful, if, as some say, it’s the case that they have a suspect.

OK I see what you are referring to. I see cagey not outright lying, which is how I interpret untruthful.

I see someone who might have a suspect he can't name and doesn't have enough to arrest and get a conviction and does not want to tip his hand about what he does have to the suspect. These are what I call mealy mouth words in general conversation, but not when an investigation is concerned. For investigations, you often have to look at what is not said. But that is JMO. I've seen way too many cases where it seemed like FOREVER to arrest someone because they don't charge until they have enough to convict, in general.

 

[flowershop]

All IMHO - From the beginning there was and is an assumption that K and M were BFFs. They may have been close, longtime friends woven into each other’s families, loved each other dearly, but not really BFFs.

They pledged different sororities. IMO, that is a big deal. Close like a family ‘sister’ is very different than the secrecy between sorority ‘sisters.’ K and M, by sorority definition, had to have many secrets from each other.

All IMOO. Source - life experience; lived and worked in the collegiate Greek system, assigned to many campuses in many states.

Sororities and fraternities are extremely private and incredulously secretive and confidential beyond understanding unless you experience it. Huge secrecy in Greek life, with loyalties, rivalries, territories, intricate social and ritual details. Greek life is not one big group. Each specific organization is unique, a subset of Greek life, with its own associated internal/external/local groups/friends. Generally each is a ‘chapter’ of a national organization, like Elks or Moose lodges, except the members are fulltime students, young, and sworn-in for life.

This crime has a subculture unknown to most people. This case may not be about the friends’ closeness, but the gaps between them, JMO.

Just information: House occupants included 3 (M,X,B) in same sorority, M was B’s big sis, and 1 (K) in a different sorority. E’s sister is in another different sorority. E and brother/H were in same fraternity. The young men associated with the housemates, IMO, appear to be associated with a different fraternity. An accident earlier this year was the eve of an event for that fraternity. Who was there? Are/were JD or A in a fraternity? M’s BF? Did anyone quit a sorority or fraternity recently? Are any of the chapters on campus on any kind of ‘notice’ or warning? Many IG, venmo, activity with variance and Greek nuances. The 6-degrees from crime to assailant may be between who is known, details of interview, evidence, all the technology accounts, social media accounts, calls, texts. How are they connected or disconnected and where was loyalty damaged?

If the assailant feels justified, then he could have acted normal when entering and leaving, and continues to act normal. So, who is acting differently? Who can, but can’t talk? Who was where, when, but wasn’t? Who was with whom, but wasn’t? Who told whom, but didn't? ...

Not my theory, just sharing thoughts for consideration. All IMOO. BBM

University of Idaho victims' sororities on probation for 'health and safety' violations

The two sororities that victims of the quadruple homicide at the University of Idaho belonged to are on disciplinary probation, according to the school.

www.foxnews.com

 

[AngTxGal]

the difference of an Elantra and a Prius and Nissan Altima is pretty obvious

Anyone can see differences between models of cars if they study stock photos.
If that is how a tip needs to come about, how reliable would the top be?
Joe Blow citizens across ID and WA are not going to sit down and study stock photos of various small white 4-door sedans in the event they happen to see one they can distinguish all Makes and Models, within the 2011-2013 range.
So the tip would have to be someone who knows someone who owns a white Hyundai Elantra of the year range 2011-2013.
That excludes people who saw a white 4 door sedan drive down the road at a given place and time.
If I look on Google Earth at the home where the murders took place, I can count at least 8 white sedans in the nearest parking lots close to that house.
LE has said they are combing through a whopping 22,000 white cars that meet their criteria.
If you add all the misidentified white 4 door sedans to this number- then that 22,000 rises to a enormous number of white 4 door sedans.
Some may be Hyundais, some may be Elantras, some may be white, some may be the correct year range- how many are correct on all of those parameters in a chance seeing driving down the road or video footage?
Seems like a ton of work for a small chance to locate this single elusive enigmatic Elantra that left the scene of the crime 40 days ago. It could be anywhere.

Now lets remind ourselves that this Elantra is important in this case, someone LE wants to talk to. It could be the killer. I’m not walking up to any white Elantra or any other 4 door white sedan to check the details and make sure it meets the criteria. This killer left the scene with the knife, we must assume they are armed and dangerous.

JMO

 

[3FrenchHens]

We can't really get into the lives of the friends of the victims, nor of the unharmed kids.

I was in a national sorority. and it was nothing like you describe. It was a step up socially, a way to meet the frat guys. A way to have instant friends in a huge U where otherwise the dating scene was more challenging.

Thank you for your feedback. I edited the post with your guardrails about friends, unharmed kids. Removed all initials. It was my first post and was trying to shed light into the secrecy and subculture, e.g. fraternity hazing accidents. Was simply trying to eliminate assumptions. Sincere apologies.

 

[Cryptic]

More evidence of irresponsible sleuthing bringing death threats to the accused and lawsuits from the accused:

Idaho murders: University professor sues TikTok cyber-sleuth who accused her of campus killings

History professor Rebecca Scofield sent two cease-and-desist letters to TikTok personality Ashely Guillard, but Guillard continued to make videos accusing Scofield of murder.

www.foxnews.com

For better or for worse, I dont think lawsuits are likely to stop this type of behavior:

A. Sue'em attorneys know that suing those with little to lose not only does not pay, but as there is nothing to take, rarely changes the behavior of the target.

B. The Second Amendment is mighty and broadly interpreted. Slander against public persons requires that the defendant know that "X" is false (states of mind are almost impossible to prove).

Slander against private persons like the professor does not have that requirement. Even still, citizens can constitutionally voice their opinion about anything and anybody- and "opinion" is broadly defined.

Thus, " "X" did "C!" could be slander. But.... the equally irresponsible "My review of evidence "A" and "B" leads me to conclude that "X" did "C" could be protected because it is based on a stated personal opinion.

In short what is needed are not lawsuits, but more personal responsibility regarding one's free speech. Getting off my soap box..... .

 

[Dysfunkshun]

Vilified ex-boyfriend of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves is devastated: family

Speaking publicly for the first time, Brooke Miller said that her nephew, Jack DuCoeur, is devastated by Kaylee Goncalves’ murder.

nypost.com

I thought they broke up before college. Idk.

 

[joeconn4]

Yeah this doesn’t make sense. I don’t know any high school students with full-time jobs, and it’s impossible to have a full-time in college as a full-time student. Her obituary does state that but it seems a little confusing to me MOO

I gotta disagree. My side hustle, I work front desk at a local bowling center. One of our arcade managers is a high school senior. She was promoted to this position last winter, midway through her junior year. She closes Fri/Sat/Sun, puts in at least 28 hours those days, and closes at least 1 more day of Mon-Thurs. Most weeks, 40+ hours. I can think of 2 other employees who are out of high school now, but were working around 40 hours/week when they were still in high school (going into our covid lockdown). We also have 2 bartenders right now who are full time who are college students (1 undergrad, 1 grad student).

My nephew is another one. College sophomore, multiple jobs. Works 8-12 hours/week for his church doing audio/video production for their broadcast of the services. Also manages a crew that provides community pool lifeguard/maintenance services, 2 full days a week plus 2-3 days/week that he's on email/doing scheduling/social media, etc. His college schedule is such that he only has to be on campus on Mondays - the rest of the week he is on zoom classes or doing one on one instruction with his professors.

 

[10ofRods]

I used to do those “test your awareness” videos with my students all the time.

I’d say maybe 1/3rd at maximum saw the gorilla, and did even worse on other awareness tests.

I taught English, not forensic observation, but I was able to finagle showing these videos under the guise of paying attention to the details in a narrative.

We particularly liked this one, and I failed it as well. I’ve tried but am unable to get the video to link, so I took a screenshot and you can find it on YouTube.

IMO it really shows that people are rarely observant of detail, particularly if it’s something (like the Elantra) that they may have seen prior to being made aware to be on the lookout for it.

IMO
View attachment 389757

Thank you - will work very well with my forensic class (the easiest of all labs on campus, if you ask me - BUT, I can see how if students cannot pass the gorilla test or manage to put the details in The Pear Film into order...they aren't going to do well in other science labs.

Employers in my region (SoCal) say that inability to observe details is lacking in most of our recent graduates and the ability to remember/document said details even worse. People are getting kicked out of professional programs that have an absolute requirement in these areas, right and left.

And here's an odd fact. The one area where students did better, even 7-8 years ago, was remembering what music they had recently listened to. Now, I get a lot of, "I dunno, I just turn the radio/streaming service on and listen - no clue what music I listened to." Me: "Well, what's the genre?" Student: Dunno. Me: "How do you ever listen to a song you like?" Student: I don't. Other student: Some songs come up a lot.

(Me, puzzled, thinking: "so, you basically are back in 1965, with the equivalent of AM radio??". It turns out most are listening to Hip/Hop or Rap and no one knows what R and B is. The ones who do curate their own musical experiences know about rock and country, though. So the "lived memory" of young people today may be quite different than even a decade ago (as the Z-ennials keep claiming in various places).

I don't think we can expect young adults to be the best rememberers/witnesses to real life events, but they sure are good at finding things that stream (and simply rewatching rather than remembering, if what they want is already on the internet).

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

We can't really get into the lives of the friends of the victims, nor of the unharmed kids.

I was in a national sorority. and it was nothing like you describe. It was a step up socially, a way to meet the frat guys. A way to have instant friends in a huge U where otherwise the dating scene was more challenging.

JMO IMO

My LT college boyfriend was in a fraternity. He let me read their 'secret handbook' which was really not anything critical or shocking (except for the part where they wanted to preserve the honor of women--that was certainly a surprise to me lol, and we got a good laugh out of it together). at least from what I saw, it was about social connections, parties, and fun.

JMO IMO

 

[drmrgrl]

How would LE spelling it out point blank that there’s a random killer out there change how you function?
Everyone should stay vigilant and lock their doors anyway, whether it was someone who they knew or not. Always.
I’m in another country and I’m still locking my doors

https://twitter.com/x/status/1606250767358099458

IMO I take from this-one person did this.

 

[indicolite22]

Crime Stoppers, Canadian law enforcement absent from University of Idaho murders probe

Idaho’s three Crime Stoppers programs failure to offer cash rewards in exchange for tips that lead to the arrest of the party who brutally murdered four University of Idaho students last month is “…

nypost.com

The shocking lack of attention to the headline-making killings is unusual because the state has historically boasted “strong” Crime Stoppers programs, said Larry Wieda, who has been the executive director of Northern Colorado Crime Stoppers for 41 years.

 

[10ofRods]

it was all imo jmo, and I clearly said that repeatedly. However, since it's not clear, I'll report my own post and an admin can remove it ifok they feel I was not clear that this was JMO and my theory, certainly not to be interpreted as more.

You said JMO more than once, and so I took it as your viewpoint and theory. A good reminder to us all to remember to put that in. IMO. or MOO.

Vilified ex-boyfriend of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves is devastated: family

Speaking publicly for the first time, Brooke Miller said that her nephew, Jack DuCoeur, is devastated by Kaylee Goncalves’ murder.

nypost.com

I thought they broke up before college. Idk.

He's mentioned as the boyfriend of 6 years in some articles, and her instagram would indicate at least 5 years as well (they were interacting on SM at 6 years ago). They met in high school. Some articles say "on again, off again" so I suppose they could have broken up before college, gotten back together, then split again. Her obituary states he's her long term boyfriend and he's listed as family. We really don't know their relationship history, in short. Mrs G has said, "They would have gotten back together," implying that they were not together at the time of K's death.

IMO.

 

[Arkay]

I don't think we can expect young adults to be the best rememberers/witnesses to real life events, but they sure are good at finding things that stream (and simply rewatching rather than remembering, if what they want is already on the internet

My observation has always been that they will remember minute details about things that matter to them personally.

For example, a student who cannot sequence a story will remember every arcane rule of football, if that is a passion.

I would presume that those near the heart of this tragedy will be more adept at remembering details because this MATTERS to them and took place in their sanctuary of college life.

However, as you know, since they were not primed prior to the murders to pay attention to details, they may not recollect pertinent aspects of what occurred earlier.


We here at WS are attuned to true crime since we have an interest.
I can only hope that the wider world is also attuned in case someone does indeed spot the Elantra in question.

Jmo

 

[debbiediablo]

This certainly gives a different picture of things. She worked full-time both in high school and all through college? That doesn't sound much like the party type to me. When would there be any time? MOO

If you want to get something done, ask a person who is really busy. They have likely learned to organize their time. My oldest completed three majors in four years (biology, psychology, philosophy), summa *advertiser censored* laude, and worked all four years plus all four years she was in high school. And believe me, she found plenty of time to party. It's all about planning and execution and not about how many hours there are in day.