ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[TooMuchGun]

I have to say that I have heard about this case from someone on the EC and also in Canada, so vastly different experience. I heard about it on national news.

I live on the east coast in a major news market and only news nation is still covering the case. other channels will mention new news but nothing else. the media coverage is dead here. u have to be actively looking for it on the news to find it

 

[SMK777]

I don't recall seeing that they don't know (or even suspect) who it is . Under FAQs on the website, it says
"At this time, there are no named suspects, no arrests and no weapon has been found."

The most recent update says "No suspects have been indentified".

None of that says they don't know who it is. LE might or might not have an idea and are trying to prove it, but they haven't identified or named who it could be. Semantics matter sometimes.

I had asked if you thought they were being untruthful about not knowing where the person is:

In an interview with NewsNation on Thursday, Moscow police chief James Fry declined to answer a question about whether the culprit was still in the area.

"Like I said, we're not disclosing any of that, but there's some of that we just don't know at this point," Mr Fry said. "We're still trying to put everything together.

Moscow police chief stokes fresh frustration in Idaho murders probe with vague comment on killer’s whereabouts

Police chief James Fry is still refusing to say how much they know about where the killer might be

news.yahoo.com

 

[NeonSunburst69]

Vilified ex-boyfriend of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves is devastated: family

Speaking publicly for the first time, Brooke Miller said that her nephew, Jack DuCoeur, is devastated by Kaylee Goncalves’ murder.

nypost.com

That is sad...if true.I dont have any clue who could've done this crime. I pray JC remains cleared if he had nothing to do with it.
I know LE has cleared him for now. But, when I was reading the artcile above, I started wondering, was Jack C part of the group called over that morning the roommates called for help? Imo moo my best guess, he was called....and living 2 houses down, he was there within minutes. Jmo.

ETA: Does anyone remember if the kids stayed outside while waiting on paramedics and police?

 

[Stephen2022]

LE reported the dog was found somewhere other than where the crime occurred. They did not specify a particular location.

So, the dog may have been found in an unoccupied bedroom, a bathroom, the laundry room, or the mechanical/furnace room (under the assumption the crime DID occur in the kitchen, living room, 2nd to 3rd floor stairs, MM's room, and XK's room, since the perpetrator would have been in all

Law enforcement mentioned the dog was in an unoccupied bedroom

Just to clarify when LE arrived the dog was in unnocupied bedroom but could not confirm if this was same location at time of murder

 

[AuntTricia]

Yeah this doesn’t make sense. I don’t know any high school students with full-time jobs, and it’s impossible to have a full-time in college as a full-time student. Her obituary does state that but it seems a little confusing to me MOO

It isn't impossible to be full time employed and a full time student. I've known people who were full time at work and working on engineering degrees or comp sci degrees full time. I guess one class a night would equal 12 credits a week therefore full time. It is increasingly easier with all the online courses available.

 

[10ofRods]

That's news to me! Who made the request?

Something I noticed watching that bodycam footage... At the very beginning, the first officer on the scene is seemingly narrating the video.

Stop and watch.
Gotta wait for them to get up here anyway.
This is where we can stop, observe what's going on, see if there's any other activity we need to be aware of.
Now let's go make contact.

That just struck me as odd. I wonder if officers are beginning to treat bodycams as home videos, or some sort of performance art.

More than one long term youtuber made the requests, as these particular people often do. I have now counted four of these citizen journalists who have filed for FOIA. I expect others to emerge. One person has gotten body cam from other incidents in the same area. This opens up a whole new phase in crime solving/amateur sleuthing, IMO.

The "narration" is, I believe, one officer's attempt to tell the newer officer how he usually proceeds in this situation. In no way was it anything other than an attempt to train a new employee. There are now about 6 of these Moscow body cam videos floating around, and no, they are not treating them as home videos or performance art. But they are pairing new employees with older ones. The older employee says several times, "This is what I do," "this is how I handle it." He even gives instructions on how to do follow-up in the August 16 video (beginning of police season at U of I).

Not odd at all, to me.

MOO.. Did they put the bolo for the white Elantra at the border out too late? Was there a bolo put out at the Mexican Borders as well? Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this.

There is no BOLO and never was. There was a request for public information about the whereabouts of the Elantra from around Nov 9 to 13/14. Nothing more. No official notification to Canada or Mexico - just a mention that information is sought.

No APB, no BOLO. Please, if I am wrong about this, someone provide the APB or BOLO announcement (others have asked before me - and so far, no evidence of it anywhere).

IMO.

the difference of an Elantra and a Prius and Nissan Altima is pretty obvious

Not to me. And, since I teach a lab on forensic observation, I can also submit that 70-80% of my students can't tell the difference either. I can show them the models and then quiz them 20 minutes later and they fail the quiz. It takes interest and practice time to get good at car recognition. I suppose it goes without saying that there are strong differences between the sexes (as reported by them) at these tasks. Also, males over 30 do much better than males under 30.

Same goes for recognizing previously unseen faces. Some students (about 20%) can match a face they've just seen in a crowd sequence with an individual picture later on. The crowd sequences are filmed at a slow pace. Students do better with crowd sequences from their own home regions,

There's a rather famous video called the "Gorilla Ball Test" or "Selective Attention Test" or similar which I also show. 50-60% see the gorilla, the rest do not. I've done quite a bit of further research on the observational skills of the ones who do not see the gorilla (neutral information memory tests; emotional memory tests; short term and medium term memory tests, etc). Lots of people do not internally record information that's incoming from their environment - for many reasons.

MOO, but based on years of research. Is it getting worse, you might ask? Yes, the data I have show that students in 2022 are doing more poorly on all these memory/observational skill tests, compared to 20 years ago. Lots of theories why - but not everyone can tell car models apart from each other, is my point. I'd be surprised if even a majority of people can.

The young man didn’t live there though (in the first video) so it really wasn’t his responsibility

I didn't mean to imply that it was, only that on that instance (just after moving in), Kaylee did step up and take responsibility. I have seen this same behavior on the part of other party-goers many many times (one resident steps up and takes responsibility, while the others go back inside to avoid any more scrutiny by LE). Kaylee could have hidden inside the house, couldn't she? But she didn't.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I had asked if you thought they were being untruthful about not knowing where the person is:

In an interview with NewsNation on Thursday, Moscow police chief James Fry declined to answer a question about whether the culprit was still in the area.

"Like I said, we're not disclosing any of that, but there's some of that we just don't know at this point," Mr Fry said. "We're still trying to put everything together.

Moscow police chief stokes fresh frustration in Idaho murders probe with vague comment on killer’s whereabouts

Police chief James Fry is still refusing to say how much they know about where the killer might be

news.yahoo.com

I don't see any untruthful there regarding not knowing where the person is at. Is there somewhere in there where he says they don't know where he is at? I see that he declined to answer. That isn't the same as saying "We don't know where the culprit is." That is saying we aren't telling you what we do know, and there is more that we don't know". Eta: The words "We're not sure exactly where the individual is." Only means that at any given time they don't know exactly where the individual is, because if they haven't arrested him he could be anywhere. People escape surveillance all the time.

Are you equating holding back investigation information with being untruthful? Maybe I don't use untruthful the same way you mean?

 

[layer]

The other cases to which you refer have been specifically declared unrelated by LE.

Just for the sake of clarity...

This is from the latest press release on 12/19:
There have been numerous media inquiries about a 1999 double stabbing in Pullman, Washington, and the 2021 double stabbing (with one death) in Salem, Oregon. While these cases share similarities with the King Street homicides, there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related.

There is no reference at all made to the June 13, 2020 Sandra Ladd murder in Washougal, Washington, which also occured on the 13th, between 3:00 and 4:00am.

Saying there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related is not the same as saying that the cases have been specifically declared unrelated.

I still see a pattern here:

Sandra Ladd - June 13, 2020
Travis & Jamilyn Juetten - August 13, 2021
XEM&K - November 13, 2022

Likely attacked in bed, while asleep, with a knife. All the incidents happened between 3 and 4 a.m. on the 13th of the month, 14 & 15 months apart.

 

[ktm44]

Hi fixed them, not changed them. Replacing the keypads was probably done during the renovation.

We do have to take the mother’s word at face value but he has never publicly acknowledged that and the information she provided wasn’t really complete.

If he did fix a lock, we don’t actually know what lock he repaired.

 

[NyxNY]

Do you think they’re being untruthful (for the good of the investigation) when they say they don’t know where this person is?

IMO yes I do, and for good reason. Why would they say otherwise?

 

[ktm44]

Law enforcement mentioned the dog was in an unoccupied bedroom

That is incorrect. LE indicated the dog was in a room that was not where the murders had taken place but I have not read any statement indicating it was a bedroom.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yeah this doesn’t make sense. I don’t know any high school students with full-time jobs, and it’s impossible to have a full-time in college as a full-time student. Her obituary does state that but it seems a little confusing to me MOO

I actually did have a full time job when I was a HS senior, and it absolutely tanked my grades. Getting home finally at 11pm to start math homework. I suspect the Mom was meaning something like "She always had a job" Given the pressure, stress, agony the Mom is undergoing, it's natural to present her daughter in the most superlative terms. I worked all the way thru the U, while studying science, but not more than 4 hours a day, then I maxxed it out in the summer. We have to give KG Mom some slack.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Just for the sake of clarity...

This is from the latest press release on 12/19:
There have been numerous media inquiries about a 1999 double stabbing in Pullman, Washington, and the 2021 double stabbing (with one death) in Salem, Oregon. While these cases share similarities with the King Street homicides, there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related.

There is no reference at all made to the June 13, 2020 Sandra Ladd murder in Washougal, Washington, which also occured on the 13th, between 3:00 and 4:00am.

Saying there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related is not the same as saying that the cases have been specifically declared unrelated.

I still see a pattern here:

Sandra Ladd - June 13, 2020
Travis & Jamilyn Juetten - August 13, 2021
XEM&K - November 13, 2022

Likely attacked in bed, while asleep, with a knife. All the incidents happened between 3 and 4 a.m. on the 13th of the month, 14 & 15 months apart.

Thank you for clarifying. I stand corrected.

 

[Diddian]

He could have been with one of the unharmed roommates.

You're right. That is a possibility as well. In fact, I hope that was the case and that Murphy was as unaware of the violations committed against the victims as the surviving roommates were.

 

[ktm44]

You're right. That is a possibility as well. In fact, I hope that was the case and that Murphy was as unaware of the violations committed against the victims as the surviving roommates were.

Can you confirm what the surviving roommates do or don’t know?

The only thing we do know is what time the 911 call was made. What we don’t know if if they heard or saw anything, if they were asleep or if they were terrified and hiding.

 

[NuttMegg]

You're right. That is a possibility as well. In fact, I hope that was the case and that Murphy was as unaware of the violations committed against the victims as the surviving roommates were.

I was thinking maybe he was frightened, hid out in the 1st floor bathroom, (if they left the door ajar), then maybe if one of the girls got up to pee he could have gone back to the bedroom with her, sensing safety.

Poor Murphy. Like the Watts' Dieter. If they could convey what they saw.

 

[3FrenchHens]

All IMHO - From the beginning there was and is an assumption that K and M were BFFs. They may have been close, longtime friends woven into each other’s families, loved each other dearly, but not really BFFs.

They pledged different sororities. IMO, that is a big deal. Close like a family ‘sister’ is very different than the secrecy between sorority ‘sisters.’ K and M, by sorority definition, had to have many secrets from each other. All IMOO. Source - life experience; lived and worked in the collegiate Greek system, assigned to many campuses in many states.

Sororities and fraternities are private and secretive. Greek life is not one big group. Each specific organization is unique, a subset of Greek life, with its own associated internal/external/local groups/friends. Generally each is a ‘chapter’ of a national organization, like Elks or Moose lodges, on a different scale. This crime may have a subculture unknown to most people, JMO.

If the assailant feels justified, then he could have acted normal when entering and leaving, and continues to act normal. So, who is acting differently? Just trying to simplify.

EBM - Apologies if sounded like talking about individuals. Removed all references of any persons or initials.
Not my theory, just sharing thoughts. All IMOO. BBM

 

[Arkay]

And, since I teach a lab on forensic observation, I can also submit that 70-80% of my students can't tell the difference either. I can show them the models and then quiz them 20 minutes later and they fail the quiz. It takes interest and practice time to get good at car recognition. I suppose it goes without saying that there are strong differences between the sexes (as reported by them) at these tasks. Also, males over 30 do much better than males under 30.

Same goes for recognizing previously unseen faces. Some students (about 20%) can match a face they've just seen in a crowd sequence with an individual picture later on. The crowd sequences are filmed at a slow pace. Students do better with crowd sequences from their own home regions,

There's a rather famous video called the "Gorilla Ball Test" or "Selective Attention Test" or similar which I also show. 50-60% see the gorilla, the rest do not. I've done quite a bit of further research on the observational skills of the ones who do not see the gorilla (neutral information memory tests; emotional memory tests; short term and medium term memory tests, etc). Lots of people do not internally record information that's incoming from their environment - for many reasons.

MOO, but based on years of research. Is it getting worse, you might ask? Yes, the data I have show that students in 2022 are doing more poorly on all these memory/observational skill tests, compared to 20 years ago. Lots of theories why - but not everyone can tell car models apart from each other, is my point. I'd be surprised if even a majority of people can.

I used to do those “test your awareness” videos with my students all the time.

I’d say maybe 1/3rd at maximum saw the gorilla, and did even worse on other awareness tests.

I taught English, not forensic observation, but I was able to finagle showing these videos under the guise of paying attention to the details in a narrative.

We particularly liked this one, and I failed it as well. I’ve tried but am unable to get the video to link, so I took a screenshot and you can find it on YouTube.

IMO it really shows that people are rarely observant of detail, particularly if it’s something (like the Elantra) that they may have seen prior to being made aware to be on the lookout for it.

IMO

 

[SMK777]

I don't see any untruthful there regarding not knowing where the person is at. Is there somewhere in there where he says they don't know where he is at? I see that he declined to answer. That isn't the same as saying "We don't know where the culprit is." That is saying we aren't telling you what we do know, and there is more that we don't know".

Are you equating holding back investigation information with being untruthful? Maybe I don't use untruthful the same way you mean?

Well, saying that there are things “we just don’t know at this point” after being directly asked if the culprit is still in Idaho or out of the area means they basically don’t have anyone under surveillance. Unless they’re being untruthful, if, as some say, it’s the case that they have a suspect.

 

[Stephen2022]

That is incorrect. LE indicated the dog was in a room that was not where the murders had taken place but I have not read any statement indicating it was a bedroom.

location of dog in unoccupied bedroom at time law enforcement
arrived.

Police address stalker claims, victim's dog in killing of Idaho students

Moscow Police added context to claims that Idaho student victim Kaylee Goncalvez told friends she had a stalker.

www.courttv.com