ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

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gliving said:
www.foxnews.com

Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover retrieved from city lot

Family lawyer Shanon Gray picked up slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves' silver Ranger Rover from Moscow, Idaho, police on Thursday, nearly six weeks after her murder.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

EXCLUSIVE: An unidentified man retrieved Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover Thursday afternoon from a Moscow city storage lot.

The downcast-looking man helped a pair of Moscow police officers tinker under the hood as they started the engine of the 2016 Range Rover Evoque Kaylee excitedly purchased days before her slaying.

As officers scraped ice from the windshield and brushed away snow, the sullen man, whom Fox News Digital wasn't immediately able to identify, paced nearby in the frigid air.

View attachment 389514


(video at link)
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Looks like SG to me.
 
OckhamsRazor22 said:
No hit man did this. Too much risk. It would have been a double-tap with a silencer not a physical assault risking hand to hand combat and/or the victim being armed. Nope. Jmoo
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May I ask what a "double-tap" is? Thank you!
 
wary said:
I think that the thing that people ON the list have in common is that they were sleuthed early, energetically and often, even in places that have serious moderation.

LE may have just given up adding people to their list, as the number of people sleuthed grows and grows. Or the names that they’re ‘clearing’ now might be so marginally known that adding them to the list would do more harm than good.

Either way, the fact that someone’s not on the list doesn’t indicate anything, I believe.

All MOO
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I gotta say that if I were one of the people whose names were being thrown about, I'd very much want to be on that list!
 
Which_pancake said:
IMO, it is unlikely that the "Adam" conversation has anything to do with this case. It is simply the few seconds of conversation that happened to be captured as they walked by the security camera of someone who chose to release it publicly. The chances that that bit of conversation holds the key to this are tiny.
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I agree with this, but we have so little else! That's why we're picking apart every bit of video, conversation, body language nuance and everything else we can find. Hopefully, LE is way ahead of us!
 
CityKid said:
In the obituary, her parents wrote, "She joined the Alpha Phi sorority and was studying to become an Elementary School teacher." Not sure they were fully aware of her plans, since they talked about she and Jack being on a break while she was putting up ads for roommates in Austin.
I'm seeing remote marketing internships in Austin but most are summer only. I don't know if she had a year-round job and did her marketing internship during the summer.
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That’s one of the most incredible obituaries I’ve read. Hope she and Maddie are on to their next adventure.
 
Trouble1321075 said:
What do you imagine the motive would be for a predator in this case?
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It's hard to say. I don't like to dig too deep into the thinking of these people. I'm tempted to just say it's in their nature.
You know, the story of the scorpion and the frog.

A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it. But the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but I couldn't resist the urge. It's in my nature."
 
maskedwoman said:
After catching up this morning, I'm struggling with how some posters use the rage killing. Some of us seem to mean that something happened earlier in the evening and it enraged this person so much they stalked them back home, waited an extended period of time until the house quieted down, then entered intending to to kill everyone in the house.

To me that's cold and calculating. Someone in a true rage couldn't possibly remain inactive for that long. Legally, a crime of passion is one that occurs during the "heat of passion" or as a fairly immediate response to a provocation. Just like road rage is an immediate reaction to something that happens to you on the road. I also think someone in a rage would have a hard time sustaining that rage during the time required to kill 4 people on two different levels of the house. That took a lot of physical work and IMO would have burned through the rage.

This person isn't a serial killer, so far as we know, because being a serial killer means you have killed on multiple occasions, and we have no evidence of that thus far. A spree killer means the murderer killed multiple people at more than one location. No current evidence of this either.

It does fits the legal definition of a mass murder, which is killing 4 or more people in the same location during a single period of time. Mass murderer is a very jarring term, but it does seem to be correct.

I did some reading this morning and found that mass murderers often operate off hatred rather than rage. Hatred against a group that mistreated them, that they disapprove of in general, or a group that excluded them. Hitler hated Jews. The Walmart manager hated his employees. Dylan Roof hated black people. There are other motivations, for sure, but they all seemed to be deeply rooted motivations that allowed for planning rather than impulsive actions. I watched an American Monster episode where a woman left her husband and weeks later he killed her mother and grandparents, and shot her brother 12 times. His motivation was to punish her for leaving him. He didn't shoot her. He wanted her to suffer the loss of everyone she loved.

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me that the killer came to kill one and the others were any sort of collateral damage. Why not just choose a different time and place rather than risk one person getting away and raising the alarm? I agree there had to be an inciting event, but I don't think this was a crime of passion. To me, at least so far, it seems more like other mass murders, where the killer has an issue with the group as a whole.

Thanks for reading. :)
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Do you think the LE citations or the reputation of the house being a “ party house”had anything to do with it?
 
layer said:
I'm not convinced that hatred was even a factor in these killings. I think this could be the work of a predator. Predators don't generally hate their prey. I have a hawk that lives at my house. I don't think he hates the birds and small animals he kills and consumes. In fact he seems to like them, a little too much.
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Interesting, my corgis hunt squirrels. It is a cat and mouse scenario, with the squirrels wining most often. There isn’t hate, just predator and prey.
Couldn’t a killer be both a predator who hunts what they hate? I think so.
Using our hunter analogy, some hunters shoot coyotes and wild pigs, they enjoy the hunt, and also detest coyotes and pigs. Meat is not the goal, they leave the dead right where they fall. These kinds of hunters feel like they are doing the world a favor.

A killer with a mission may enjoy the hunt and justify the killing due to hatred.
The knife and stabbings to me seem like personal hatred, but the idea of stalking and waiting and entering the house at night are the actions of a hunter.
A killer could be so cold as to see people as prey and have zero feelings toward them. The motivation would be the hunt And hatred.
Edit: Hate crimes come to mind- justifying the killing due to bigotry, and the KKK did not just kill to eliminate, they enjoyed the hunt, harming, suffering, and torture.

Does this killer hate others in addition to these victims? Will they hunt again? That is what makes this case so terrifying, because I think they could act again.

JMO
 
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annpats said:
This is absolutely what I think too.
The person who had a grudge or 'beef' with these students didn't do the killing himself. They got someone in to do the job. Someone who specialises in that kind of thing, and who was capable of doing it without being caught.
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It's possible, but statistically extremely improbable. I've seen studies guestimating about 2% of murders are done for hire. Even if the rate is 5 times that, it's still very unlikely -- and the method also suggests anger, revenge, hate. It's always possible there's a spurned rich kid with a trust fund and a psychopathic friend who'll do anything for money, but probably not.
 
AngTxGal said:
Yes I agree, well said! This is exactly what I think too.
It makes sense that the word rage implies crime of passion, but rage is of the moment.
This wasn’t an emotion of the moment, or a reaction, it was long held hatred and planning.
So who hates And what do they hate?
They could hate what they
- want but don’t know how to get- envy, jealousy
- misunderstand or fear due to ignorance, culture, religion- bigotry
- see in themselves that is flawed, shameful- projection
- cannot defend against that makes them feel vulnerable- revenge
- What else?

JMO
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Sadly, people can hate against a lot of things.
  • People who appear to have values not in sync with their own.
  • Situations that they believe should never occur.
  • Someone who appears to have done wrong to someone else.
  • Revenge for a perceived slight.
  • Prove to the world anyone can take anyone's life anytime.
  • Kill someone else as a proxy for killing themselves, should they really hate themselves.
  • Think a lifestyle is wrong.
  • Want to punish someone who cares for the victim.
  • Want to terrify the entire community they might hate.
There is even the possibility that the plan was to go talk to someone, not to kill, and it spiraled out of control.

But I don't think this was hate in the killers mind, per se. I think it is justified in the killers mind as the victims deserved it. For whatever warped reason and it could be envy or jealousy and that does not have to equal hate.

This is where the rage part comes in. You can sit and work your ( generic you) way into a rage mentally. You may not rage down the street, but be mentally gathering injustices until rage erupts. And the killer might still not even know their prey, they just represent what he/she needs to kill.

JOOMO. (Just one of my opinions).
 
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layer said:
It's hard to say. I don't like to dig too deep into the thinking of these people. I'm tempted to just say it's in their nature.
You know, the story of the scorpion and the frog.

A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it. But the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but I couldn't resist the urge. It's in my nature."
Click to expand...

I've always loved this fable and told it often to my daughter, as a warning.

I've heard this version, but I'm more familiar with the one that ends with the scorpion saying, "you knew what I was when you put me on your back."

Tragically, although I don't know what happened in this case, people have suffered in every way when they don't perceive that someone they know is in fact the scorpion. It's not always as overt as in this fable.

I personally vacillate every day between theories of why these students were killed. Don't know if it was a familiar but disguised scorpion, or any of the other reasonable theories.

Jmo
 
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