ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[Ur728]

For those who didn't catch it, an interview on News Nation, Dan Abrams Live, BE host speaking with Chief Fry. "We don't know who the individual is" makes me wonder if he indeed knows this is one person. Not who, but how many. Just IMO.Moscow police chief insists early investigations were properly done | Dan Abrams Live

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't hear him say the quote you are referring to above. I did hear him say around the 4:03 mark in the video "We're not sure exactly where the individual is". I feel that this means they possibly know who they are but just not where.

JMO

 

[Jawds78]

Do you think the LE citations or the reputation of the house being a “ party house”had anything to do with it?

Devils Advocate- if this was always a party house which has widely been reported, why would this year be different enough to cause enough anger to kill 4? Just a thought. IMO

 

[Counttrarian]

I’m jumping in without being caught up to thank you for bringing up this issue.

As a local, this is something that’s stunned all I’ve talked to. And it doesn’t help that it was apparently a private Christian college — not a business — with several properties downtown that has been capturing/archiving conversations on public sidewalks.

While all focus right is rightly on investigating the quadruple murders, this is nonetheless really creepy if true.

Audio is likely a bigger issue than video. Idaho is a 1 party consent state, so at least one of the parties in a private conversation has to consent it being recorded or it is illegal.
'This means that in Idaho, you are legally allowed to record a conversation if you are a contributor, or with prior consent from one of the involved parties.' Idaho Code Ann. § 18-6702.

However, the reasonable expectation of privacy is very tenuous at best legally when recorded at a public space. One can argue what constitutes a public space, but not really who would have standing in this case. If it was released to clear HG with HG's knowledge then def. not illegal.


SCOTUS law: Katz vs US, Carpenter vs. US, Gilk vs. Cunniffe (though more a 1st Amendment case)

 

[crimesnooper]

According to the individual who drove M and K home that night, they talked about food . I see the exchange captured on video as a nothingburger and a distraction, because it's devoid of the context that would be required to understand its meaning.

Driver who dropped off Idaho students at murder house breaks silence

I don't think that interview means anything at all.
Just because they didn't continue the conversation in front of a driver and acted happy doesn't mean the prior conversation wasn't serious.
I certainly wouldn't dismiss as a nothing burger based on a guy who claims he drove them a lot in an interview in the Daily Mirror.... 4 weeks later.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think everything you said is very sound and made me wonder more about what's going on (I figure we'll see less of Chief Fry over the next few days, it's the holidays).

I am pretty old, though.

you're not old, nor am I!
we are a young as we'll ever be again, so enjoy this newly realized youth!

and IMO your previous points about how this was originally announced as a crime of passion -- too true. I totally dismissed the murder and thought they'd have the killer within a day or two, and JMO but I'm betting a number of locals and those who may have noted something in the moment didn't focus on what otherwise may have mattered. Now I don't think that my lack of focus on the case will bring the LE and legal efforts re this case to the breaking point, but I wonder how that early announcement impacted the case overall.

 

[10ofRods]

As someone who works for a large, successful, high volume USED dealership the last 6 years and knows Hyundai Elantras better than the average human being (I am not bragging, trust me) - I would be happy to help explain to you why the reasoning is considered more than reasonable.

If you are releasing information to the general public, regarding 3 different years that the Hyundai Elantra could possibly be AND asking for their help - it screamed to me that even LE doesn’t know what they are looking at. If they are confident it’s a Hyundai, great. Calling it an Elantra ranging several years - crap confidence level.

How would people help LE by looking at a white Elantra and thinking “that’s got to be a 2011-2013.” Or “let me ask this random guy who could possibly be a murderer what year his car is and see if I got a winner!”

THE ONLY WAY THE GENERAL PUBLIC COULD POSSIBLY HELP IDENTIFY THE VEHICLE YEAR IS BY RUNNING UP TO THE CAR PHYSICALLY AND SCANNING THE VIN ON THE WINDSHIELD.

This vehicle image that is circulating doesn’t show a sharp image of it being a Hyundai does it? Let’s give LE benefit of the doubt quick because I’m not trying to NOT trust them or say to not trust them. Let’s say it’s a Hyundai for sure (I can list atleast 3 other manufacture names, models and trims that I thought of while looking at the image of the vehicle for what it’s worth) . Go look up a 2019 Hyundai ioniq. It’s just so vague and dangerous to have ranging years when lots of people will assume the year of an Elantra and think it’s a 2011-2013 because they don’t know cars well enough. It’s irresponsible.

Okay - so do you think that it could be carpet fibers that all three years might have in common??

https://projects.nfstc.org/trace/docs/final/williams_diane.pdf

Supposedly, FBI has access to databases like this one that give the chemical composition of all auto carpet. It's something that can link a murderer's shoes to a particular car.

Usually, the cars are in groups of 2-3 years (because the same carpeting is used for more than one year or something).

 

[drmrgrl]

What I want to know is how did the unsub know where the victims live?

Did the unsub meet the victims IRL for their very first interaction?
Is it possible the unsub did not meet them IRL first?
Did the unsub interact with the victims online first?
Did the victims make their address publicly available on the internet through social media?

IMO he may have scouted the place in a vehicle too.

 

[layer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't hear him say the quote you are referring to above. I did hear him say around the 4:03 mark in the video "We're not sure exactly where the individual is". I feel that this means they possibly know who they are but just not where.

Not only did he say it, News Nation plastered it all over the screen.

 

[layer]

I’m jumping in without being caught up to thank you for bringing up this issue.

As a local, this is something that’s stunned all I’ve talked to. And it doesn’t help that it was apparently a private Christian college — not a business — with several properties downtown that has been capturing/archiving conversations on public sidewalks.

While all focus right is rightly on investigating the quadruple murders, this is nonetheless really creepy if true.

I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.

 

[drmrgrl]

ITA. interesting theory (imo) she has though that possibly a professor was personally connected to one of the students (worried about their job possibly because all 4 of them knew of this connection) and committed these crimes or had someone else do it.

eta Not necessarily the professor she accused :/
...and who knows what "I told him EVERYTHING" meant.

Yes.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Okay - so do you think that it could be carpet fibers that all three years might have in common??

https://projects.nfstc.org/trace/docs/final/williams_diane.pdf

Supposedly, FBI has access to databases like this one that give the chemical composition of all auto carpet. It's something that can link a murderer's shoes to a particular car.

Usually, the cars are in groups of 2-3 years (because the same carpeting is used for more than one year or something).

And what about seat fibers? the reason I ask is because in the PNW it tends to get a little snowy/muddy/wet, and 11-12 yo car mats might be replaced IMO. So if the car was older or newer, the mats might not be original ones. JMO and spitballing here.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

Cabbie who drove slain Idaho students home said they were ‘excited’ to go home and eat pasta

The unnamed taxi driver who picked up Kaylee Gonclaves and Madison Mogen from outside a food truck and took them home just hours before the Nov. 13 murders said the grisly unsolved slaying has weig…

nypost.com

 

[Ur728]

Not only did he say it, News Nation plastered it all over the screen.

View attachment 389546

For those who didn't catch it, an interview on News Nation, Dan Abrams Live, BE host speaking with Chief Fry. "We don't know who the individual is" makes me wonder if he indeed knows this is one person. Not who, but how many. Just IMO.Moscow police chief insists early investigations were properly done | Dan Abrams Live

The original quote from Jawds78 is not the same as what they are quoting. I was making a correction because I did not hear "We don't know who the individual is" but I did hear "We're not sure exactly where the individual is."

That is a big difference JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Devils Advocate- if this was always a party house which has widely been reported, why would this year be different enough to cause enough anger to kill 4? Just a thought. IMO

Neighbors have killed over less. IMO. Which is one reason why it's so hard to get a grasp on this case - we could probably list 20-30 possible motives.

 

[Ur728]

Neighbors have killed over less. IMO. Which is one reason why it's so hard to get a grasp on this case - we could probably list 20-30 possible motives.

IMO I think the motive is someone not being included, someone who wanted desperately to be part of the group. I will be shocked if it's something other than this only because it seems like most killings these days involve something along these lines. Or bullying.

 

[AngTxGal]

I just have no understanding of greek life, or college party life, so I would be 100% guessing. I'm 60 and I was floored that there was a party going on when none of the residents was even there, and another poster thought it was hilarious that anyone even thought that was strange. Clearly, I am not the right demographic to draw conclusions on that situation. LOL

I will say that anywhere you have a mix of people and personalities, I think there is the potential for a conflict serious enough to end in murder. I would be shocked to learn that it was someone from the neighborhood pissed off about the parties. I would have expected more escalation between calling the police to complain about noise and murder. Maybe there has been more escalation and we just don't know it. But I would also think calling the police repeatedly about the noise and then killing them is a great way to make yourself an early suspect.

I went to college but worked to pay my way, so I was not part of the Greek scene and did not live in a Party house. Our house did have several female roommates, and sometimes their guys would kinda move in. It is easier for a guy to move into a house of girls, than it is for a girl to stay over with her guy in his dorm or frat house.
My experience was in the late 80’s-early 90’s so things have likely changed. The culture of university life is not a single thing. In my experience teaching the single most factor that makes the difference is family culture and expectations.
Serious students work and take school seriously- some are the first in their family to go, some have tough majors and are headed to grad school, they want to make their family proud.
Party students extend their high school playing years, no responsibilities, no job, no bills, just don’t piss mom and dad off so the $ stops.
And every kind between, older students, international students, premeds, artsy, business, Greeks, athletes, geeks, none of those words alone define A type.
These girls seemed to balance work, school, and play.
It is interesting that grad students, and others who were not in school live near so many partying students. Those serious about school who work and have tough majors do not live where parties are common, only to get mad when students party. That seems odd To me.

JMO

 

[Perch]

I don't think that interview means anything at all.
Just because they didn't continue the conversation in front of a driver and acted happy doesn't mean the prior conversation wasn't serious.
I certainly wouldn't dismiss as a nothing burger based on a guy who claims he drove them a lot in an interview in the Daily Mirror.... 4 weeks later.

It has likely already been mentioned but IMO this driver was interviewed very early in the case probably more than once. Also the bartender who had “everything” told to them has been interviewed as well. LE know what the “everything” that was discussed is JMO.

 

[smokeybandit]

IMO he may have scouted the place in a vehicle too.

But how did he know the house's location? How did he know where to go to get to the house and scout it? How did he learn the address in the first place?

IMO My point is that if the unsub went to a party at the house first, it's more likely that he knew the victims. If the unsub did not know the victims, then it is possible he learned where the house is from publicly available information on the internet, and then began scouting the house IRL.

IMO We have two different possible unsubs here. 1) More of a local who knew the victims directly, and 2) one who selected them from online using publicly available information without ever meeting the victims.

If we can determine how he learned of the location of the house, you might be able to narrow down the list of suspects.

 

[lucidium]

As someone who works for a large, successful, high volume USED dealership the last 6 years and knows Hyundai Elantras better than the average human being (I am not bragging, trust me) - I would be happy to help explain to you why the reasoning is considered more than reasonable.

If you are releasing information to the general public, regarding 3 different years that the Hyundai Elantra could possibly be AND asking for their help - it screamed to me that even LE doesn’t know what they are looking at. If they are confident it’s a Hyundai, great. Calling it an Elantra ranging several years - crap confidence level.

How would people help LE by looking at a white Elantra and thinking “that’s got to be a 2011-2013.” Or “let me ask this random guy who could possibly be a murderer what year his car is and see if I got a winner!”

THE ONLY WAY THE GENERAL PUBLIC COULD POSSIBLY HELP IDENTIFY THE VEHICLE YEAR IS BY RUNNING UP TO THE CAR PHYSICALLY AND SCANNING THE VIN ON THE WINDSHIELD.

This vehicle image that is circulating doesn’t show a sharp image of it being a Hyundai does it? Let’s give LE benefit of the doubt quick because I’m not trying to NOT trust them or say to not trust them. Let’s say it’s a Hyundai for sure (I can list atleast 3 other manufacture names, models and trims that I thought of while looking at the image of the vehicle for what it’s worth) . Go look up a 2019 Hyundai ioniq. It’s just so vague and dangerous to have ranging years when lots of people will assume the year of an Elantra and think it’s a 2011-2013 because they don’t know cars well enough. It’s irresponsible.

We do not know MPD's evidence or reasoning for the 2011-2013 Elantra search. That information has not been made public.

There's no need for the public to scan VINs. I have not verified this, but given what we know, it is reasonable to assume: (1) there were no significant exterior changes during the 2011-2013 Elantra production run, and (2) it is relatively easy to distinguish 2011-2013 models from other years, if you know what to look for.

It's also helpful to rule out vehicles, and for significantly older or newer models, most people could do that from a distance.

 

[drmrgrl]

Not only did he say it, News Nation plastered it all over the screen.

View attachment 389546

Ok.IMO this indicates the LE has someone in mind, but really don’t know where the person is. Take this at face value. I think they know who did it, but can’t locate.