ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[10ofRods]

If he's spoken publicly, then there must be a link somewhere. I haven't seen it yet, can you link?

It's not an approved link. As I keep stating, it's neither MSM nor LE. It' just public and we aren't to sleuth him anyway.

 

[SMK777]

It has been known for over a month who has Murphy. Jack, Kaylee's ex has him.


link:
Murdered Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves’ spared dog now in ex-boyfriend Jack’s care

Thanks for posting this; I’d been trying to find it.

 

[SoHelpMeGod]

Are you going off an assumption that the Elantra was merely a witness? Was there something specifically said that led you down this path? Honestly curious.

I always assumed that the Elantra was more likely to be directly involved than not. And they probably have a string of videos across multiple cameras that puts it in the time and location AND may have some erratic driving or behavior documented. And that’s what really got their attention. We can probably also assume that there were many Elantras at one point (not literally, mean more other cars) that they were quickly able to clear or identify owners.

I also believe that they probably have the Elantra traveling North (on the 25 I believe) along the Washington border and probably lost it at some point - hence the involvement of Washington LE and the notice to the Canadian border.

Yes, I'm going off the assumption that the Elantra occupant(s) was a potential witness. MOO
LE has never stated that the occupant(s) is a suspect. Here's one MPD press release for example:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24942/12-16-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

"Investigators believe the occupant(s) of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding this case."
"At this time, no suspect has been identified and only vetted information that does not hinder the investigation will be released to the public."
FYI, the MPD Chief speaking a little about the car:

 

[CSIDreamer]

It's not an approved link. As I keep stating, it's neither MSM nor LE. It' just public and we aren't to sleuth him anyway.

Oh well I can't find it. I'm just confused where this info is coming from if not from "unsleuthable" sources and why its being brought here.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Some handy guides to CA Border crossings: Highway/Land Border Office (HWY/B) | Directory of CBSA Offices and Services | Canada Border Services Agency

Here is info from the British Columbia Civil liberties union re searches, rights, etc. :

B.C. Civil Liberties Association: Searches by Canadian Border Services Officers

imo this might shed light/sharpen theories, but that's JMO

 

[gliving]

According to her parents, she had moved back home about 10 days before her death.

She came back to Moscow (according to her parents) for a party at her (former) sorority on Friday night, I believe, and to show her best friend, Maddie, her new-to-her car (a 2016 Range Rover, IIRC).

It's just strange that she started out in mid-August as a campus-based student, with a lease, but decided to leave. It just keeps popping up in my mind that perhaps she was scared. Of something. I know from being the parent of two daughters that, at that age, they want to handle everything themselves without telling parents all the details.

Good to see you here, Gitana! Hope life is treating you well.

Was this just Kaylee taking normal precautions as one should, or was she scared and perhaps more hyper-aware of her surroundings for a reason. It reminds me of that saying "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you" imvho

From an interview with her parents:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

The police have said that this was a targeted killing. Madison and Xana were coworkers at a restaurant, I believe. Could both of them have been targeted by another disgruntled coworker or repeat customer who had gotten to know them? Ethan was collateral damage as he had stayed in Xana's room...

www.websleuths.com

Dad - My daughter was aware of an environment.

Mom - Very aware.

Dad - She'd turn her camera on. She would film when she thought somebody was following her out of a mall parking lot or a grocery store. She was very aware that, she was a pretty girl, and that could attract some problems. So, she was alert. She was a streetwise child.

Mom - She herself was a web sleuth. Literally through and through which is just so ironic and just so surreal and all of it, you know? Just very sad for families when she'd hear about this type of stuff happening, like, 'Mom, did you hear bout that or mom, did you hear about that? She was very well of her surroundings, very well. I mean, she would think somebody was following her and she would call me, 'Mom, I think there's somebody following me', and I'm like 'well, Kaylee, call the police', then she'd say 'oh never mind, they just turned into 711'. I mean, she was aware, very aware and she locked her doors at night and she locked her car.

 

[debbiediablo]

I respectfully disagree. I know very little about guns - (I'm an Aussie) but logically, in this situation, in order for the killer to succeed, stealth was the key.. Even if a gun is fitted with a silencer, it most certainly doesn't render the gun "silent". Bearing in mind this crime was committed in the dead of night - a very quiet night, shots fired from a gun fitted with a silencer would still be very loud. Cops would be all over the place in minutes. IMO, if the killer was keen to avoid capture, a shooting would be out of the question - far too risky. As things panned out, with the stabbings, many hours had elapsed before anyone was aware of what had happened. Additionally, the terror factor of the manner in which the victims were killed, and the associated not-so-subtle inherent warning to others,IMO was no coincidence but part of the plan.

I'm married to a man who loves guns, mainly antiques, and we seem to have at least one of almost everything. The sound of a suppressed (silenced) gun depends entirely on the gun and the silencer. Some barely sound different; others sound like a snap that would not likely be taken for a gunshot.

 

[schooling]

Yes, I'm going off the assumption that the Elantra occupant(s) was a potential witness. MOO
LE has never stated that the occupant(s) is a suspect. Here's one MPD press release for example:

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24942/12-16-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update

"Investigators believe the occupant(s) of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding this case."
"At this time, no suspect has been identified and only vetted information that does not hinder the investigation will be released to the public."
FYI, the MPD Chief speaking a little about the car:

I honestly wouldn’t expect LE to say anything differently though. Short of having a video of someone entering the car with a clearly visible weapon in hand.

They are doing everything they can to put the driver of that car at ease. “We just want to talk”. So that they are more willing to come in for questioning. Sans lawyer.

But I’d bet you a zillion dollars they’d also be treated as a potential suspect as soon as the line of questions started coming in.

 

[_Jez_]

JMO but I just can't believe every one except one (xk) died in their sleep. Just don't know how that's possible if the murders happened in only 2 rooms. Regarding coroner: It is possible her initial statement was just her opinion. Has LE ever corroborated her statement?

RBBM
IMO LE has an idea of the sequence of events and who was obviously awake/not awake. This is also information that only the killer knows. As with many other investigations (ex. Delphi with the unspent bullet) I think this information will and should be kept confidential for the integrity of the case.

ETA: Please don’t anyone take my post as argumentative or anything like that. Honestly, I only quoted redrunner02 because their post reminded me of something I’d been thinking for a while but kept forgetting to post. I’m sure it’s been discussed before.

 

[debbiediablo]

Was this just Kaylee taking normal precautions as one should, or was she scared and perhaps more hyper-aware of her surroundings for a reason. It reminds me of that saying "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you" imvho

From an interview with her parents:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

The police have said that this was a targeted killing. Madison and Xana were coworkers at a restaurant, I believe. Could both of them have been targeted by another disgruntled coworker or repeat customer who had gotten to know them? Ethan was collateral damage as he had stayed in Xana's room...

www.websleuths.com

Dad - My daughter was aware of an environment.

Mom - Very aware.

Dad - She'd turn her camera on. She would film when she thought somebody was following her out of a mall parking lot or a grocery store. She was very aware that, she was a pretty girl, and that could attract some problems. So, she was alert. She was a streetwise child.

Mom - She herself was a web sleuth. Literally through and through which is just so ironic and just so surreal and all of it, you know? Just very sad for families when she'd hear about this type of stuff happening, like, 'Mom, did you hear bout that or mom, did you hear about that? She was very well of her surroundings, very well. I mean, she would think somebody was following her and she would call me, 'Mom, I think there's somebody following me', and I'm like 'well, Kaylee, call the police', then she'd say 'oh never mind, they just turned into 711'. I mean, she was aware, very aware and she locked her doors at night and she locked her car.

Doesn't K appear to taking a video or photos behind her at one point while waiting at the Grub Truck?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

The students suitcase had been removed from her car and the panties were removed from her suitcase and were stuffed into the car’s cup holder.

huh.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Both sororities involved in this story were on probation for hazing. Sigma Chi was in good standing, but there had been general hazing issues on campus over the past 7-8

SBM

Can you please provide a link confirming the sororities are on probation for hazing specifically? While it’s public record they were on probation & there are many rumors about the reason(s) for probation, I’m aware of no confirmation from any official source that it was due to hazing.

Here’s a recent local example of a frat placed on the same kind of probation for nothing to do with hazing:
Philanthropy structure collapses at Phi Tau

MOO & TIA

 

[schooling]

I respectfully disagree. I know very little about guns - (I'm an Aussie) but logically, in this situation, in order for the killer to succeed, stealth was the key.. Even if a gun is fitted with a silencer, it most certainly doesn't render the gun "silent". Bearing in mind this crime was committed in the dead of night - a very quiet night, shots fired from a gun fitted with a silencer would still be very loud. Cops would be all over the place in minutes. IMO, if the killer was keen to avoid capture, a shooting would be out of the question - far too risky. As things panned out, with the stabbings, many hours had elapsed before anyone was aware of what had happened. Additionally, the terror factor of the manner in which the victims were killed, and the associated not-so-subtle inherent warning to others,IMO was no coincidence but part of the plan.

For anyone who gets any type of pleasure from this stuff…the knife…was probably the point.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

But I’d bet you a zillion dollars they’d also be treated as a potential suspect as soon as the line of questions started coming in.

And IMO then LE would need to Mirandize or risk having everything inadmissible. IMO this kind of questioning is equivalent to a high-end celebrity gift bag for any defense attorney.

And IMO any smart person would only go to an interview attorney in tow. And IMO then they'd say nothing.

IMO this is why the HE owner is sitting tight, saying nothing. They don't need to. Burden of proof is all on the state, and LE needs more than white HE link for probable cause IMO.

 

[schooling]

I respectfully disagree that LE investigations with bear no fruit in this case. This was written on December 7th, just over 3 weeks after the murders, LE had issued more yhan 50 search warrants. Now it's almost 3 weeks later, who knows were all that information gleaned may have led them. This is a complicated case not only because of multiple victims but because of the nature of the household, young kids, lots of friends over and milling about. Give LE time...it may take longer than people want but I believe LE will solve this massacre. AJMO


"Thompson said the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office is currently providing legal advice to law enforcement working the case, as well as obtaining search warrants. He said his office has obtained more than 50 search warrants on this investigation."

Moscow murders: Prosecutor cites importance of case integrity

The Latah County prosecutor said the concern about having an unbiased jury influences what is being shared publicly about the investigation into the Nov. 13 murders of four University of

dnews.com

The 50 warrants is being overblown in my humble opinion.

Just getting various types of cell phone location data from the 4 victims might have been 8 to 12 warrants. Then add in 1 for each social media account. Etc etc. and you very quickly get to your 50.

 

[hopewell]

Not all messy killers are caught quickly. David Berkowitz (sp?) comes to mind. Richard Ramirez comes to mind. There are lots of others - this killer is in that small category of non-ordinary crime committers, IMO. And really, Richard Allen was really careless (gets his picture taken, talks to LE, admits being near the bridge at the time of the Delphi murders - they even wrote up a warrant and were working on an arrest affidavit when someone lost the file). 5 years for that ridiculously careless person to be caught (still had the jacket, still had the gun).

Correct, but Berkowitz and Ramirez would've never survived in the wild as long as they did with current investigatory measures.

Allen was a ghost in that he hid in plain sight and as far as we know didn't reoffend. Would've made him much easier to catch if he did (glad he didn't). And yes, like in Allen's case there could be borderline LE malpractice here (that would also explain a lack of an arrest), but that would be an outlier. On the surface it appears they have been (and are) doing everything correctly.

I think they need a strong case BEFORE the arrest, because of the way the legal system works. LE and the DA need to feel they have an entire case, not just part of one. I believe they think this person is very unlikely to commit another mass murder. They know who he is or have narrowed it down to 1-2 people, but they do not know exactly where these people are. They are going to the homes of the various parties (students) who know bits of what happened or have heard things, and documenting that and finding more questions to ask certain people who are on the "believed not to be a suspect" list, but who know things.

Agree that they need a strong case before an arrest. Identifying the car would go a long way in that - if not seal the deal altogether. If they are visiting students because they are looking for a motive, they are not using their time wisely, IMO. The car seems to be the key in that LE strongly suggests it was present and involved. They almost certainly would have identified the car and/or the perp by now if it was tied to anyone in the Moscow area, let alone a student, the university, or someone in the Greek system.

None of this is unusual. I think it's actually the more common situation (that LE waits to make an arrest in a complicated case). They need to prepare an arrest affidavit - they can't just go grab someone unless that person is observed committing another crime.

They can go grab someone if they have evidence tying them to a crime, and they most certainly would detain someone if they possessed the tiniest shred of direct evidence that he slaughtered four people in their sleep. A grand jury would indict him (as they say, a GJ would indict a ham sandwich), and the perp would be off the streets while they completed their investigation and built the case. Furthermore, an arrest would allow them to obtain more warrants, not less.

My opinion.

 

[gliving]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607399581507284993

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not sure HG's identity has been revealed, but that video was on the walk from Corner Club to the food truck.

I believe, IIRC, it was on the way from the bar to the food truck.

 

[schooling]

And IMO then LE would need to Mirandize or risk having everything inadmissible. IMO this kind of questioning is equivalent to a high-end celebrity gift bag for any defense attorney.

And IMO any smart person would only go to an interview attorney in tow. And IMO then they'd say nothing.

IMO this is why the HE owner is sitting tight, saying nothing. They don't need to. Burden of proof is all on the state, and LE needs more than white HE link for probable cause IMO.

I’d agree with you but there are countless cases where people come in under the guise of just offering information and things quickly get turned around on them.

Plenty of ‘smart people’ stupidly go to LE interviews with no attorney.

If you’re claiming that this Elantra is strictly a witness and there’s no possible way that they are a suspect then we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Which is fine with me.

Edit: after reading your post we’re not disagreeing at all. But that doesn’t change my opinion that LE is purposely using diffusing language with this perp. If they got on a bullhorn and yelled “this is the murder car!” And had no plate, no vin, no owner information it would cause a public panic and they’d likely never see the car again.

 

[gliving]

SBM

Can you please provide a link confirming the sororities are on probation for hazing specifically? While it’s public record they were on probation & there are many rumors about the reason(s) for probation, I’m aware of no confirmation from any official source that it was due to hazing.

Here’s a recent local example of a frat placed on the same kind of probation for nothing to do with hazing:
Philanthropy structure collapses at Phi Tau

MOO & TIA

Hazing is included in the announcement:

Idaho murders: Victims' sororities on probation for 'health and safety' violations

The two sororities to which three of the slain University of Idaho students belonged are on disciplinary probation, according to community accountability records.

www.q13fox.com

Of 10 sororities recognized by the University of Idaho, Alpha Phi and Pi Beta Phi are the only two listed as on probation for health and safety reasons, which refers to "violations or concerns regarding risk management, alcohol/drugs, or hazing."